Questions about Judaism answered by a Jew!

[lavikor201]

Are there many tourists in Israel during this time?
In Penang, it's getting crowded as the school holidays started a week ago until January.

There is tourism year around but especially now with Xmas coming up.

NOTE: Please could you keep a discussion in another thread about these "Churches" and not here. Thank you.

 

[YusufNoor]

Shalom Lavikor,

my apologies for going off topic.

i have a question for either you or Brother Izak:

have either of you read Who Wrote The Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman?

peace,


Yusuf

 

[lavikor201]

have either of you read Who Wrote The Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman?

No I have not, but I know what it is about. I have read however, that many of the information in his book have been countered.

It seems from some of the arguements he makes, he lacks basic fact to support his claim.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Shalom Lavikor,

my apologies for going off topic.

i have a question for either you or Brother Izak:

have either of you read Who Wrote The Bible? by Richard Elliott Friedman?

peace,


Yusuf

I hope you don't mind if someone else chimes in.

I understand that Friedman is basically a proponent of Julius Wellhausen's century-old "Doucmentary Hypothesis". However, based on reviews of the book, it seems Friedman's book may be a more interesting read.

 

[Abu Ibraheem]

The claims of the people in India, and the other lost tribes should be taken more seriously because DNA testing shows that these people have distinct DNA differences from the people around them, and similar characteristics to Jews.
__________________

Thanks for admitting that. That was very honest of you, We have to keep in mind here that the Indians and Pakistanis are of the same race, it is only "independence" of the country that seperated them. My in laws have a book of their ancestors leading back to Jacob through Benjameen. But yet on their passports it has stamped "not allowed in Israel."

I am Muslim, however i have Jewish ancestory that may lead back to Jacob, lets say if it did, would me and my wife & family have a divine right to Israel being the seed of Abraham via Isaac? and still if we are Muslims bit have definite proof we are from the progeny of Isaac would we have a divine right to Israel still?

Shalom Alekhem

 

[lavikor201]

I am Muslim, however i have Jewish ancestory that may lead back to Jacob, lets say if it did, would me and my wife & family have a divine right to Israel being the seed of Abraham via Isaac? and still if we are Muslims bit have definite proof we are from the progeny of Isaac would we have a divine right to Israel still?

I assume you would, if you could proof Jewish ancestory, DNA wise. The thing is that, with intermarriage with non-isaac people in your family, since I assume, your family marries Muslim, or at least non-Jewish, it would be very hard to proof for you if not impossible. The Indian jews never intermarried with Muslims or Christians.

Israels descion was based on there Torah observance, and DNA. I imagine it would be terribly difficult for you to prove your relation to Isaac, when not Torah observant, and part of a family line that has most likley intermarried. Correct me, if I am making descions on your family that are inaccurate.

Peace.

 

[Abu Ibraheem]

How do they know through DNA? how exactly do they determine so ,

 

[north_malaysian]

Can Muslims migrate to Israel and being neutralised as Israeli citizens?

 

[Curious girl2]

How do they know through DNA? how exactly do they determine so ,

Its possible they could use Mitrochondrial DNA. That comes from the mother only and doesnt change as such, its passed on to both sons and daughters but only daughters then pass it on to their children (it is more complicated than that, but I dont really understand it that much!). If they could establish the line of ancestary back to Isaac that way then that is a way of finding out.


Peace
CG

 

[IzakHalevas]

How do they know through DNA? how exactly do they determine so ,

To be honest, I am no DNA scientist, but I know that there are some DNA traits commonly found in Jews that curiously are not found in the sorounding populations. Mostly though, the "Kohen" or priests who do not marry converts ect, are found to be DNA linked to other Kohen from other parts of the world. Basically, when Israel visited Ethiopia, and found the Ethiopian Jews who claimed to be "Kohen", DNA results showed they were very similar to Jews in Israel, and not at all similar to the sorounding populations.

Interesting, yet complicated stuff.

Can Muslims migrate to Israel and being neutralised as Israeli citizens?

If you are connected to the land somehow, or have family, or a husband you can, but if you have no connection to the land, I am not sure that would be possible. What makes things more complicated is that many Musims refuse to take Israeli citizenship, in Israel, plus you cannot go on the Hajj I believe if you have an Israeli stamp on your passport.

Since Saudi Arabia does not allow Judaism to be practiced or allow Israeli's in the country, that could make it difficult for a Muslim in Israel who wishes to go on the Hajj.

 

[Abu Ibraheem]

O.k what if i am the descendant of Abaraham however my father isnt and my mother is... does that mean i am still entitled ?

 

[IzakHalevas]

O.k what if i am the descendant of Abaraham however my father isnt and my mother is... does that mean i am still entitled ?

I don't know. It depends how you can prove ties to Abraham, and the children to Israel. The line of your mother is how you are judged to be Jewish or not.

It is a complicated question, and in reality, I am not sure you could prove your relation to him, unless your family has strictly married Jewish.

 

[Abu Ibraheem]

My grandfather is Jewish, his parents are pure Jewish, it would be a good idea if i traced my linage. How can this be done?

 

[Abu Ibraheem]

Do i have to go all the way to see my grandfather ???

 

[Grace Seeker]

I don't know. It depends how you can prove ties to Abraham, and the children to Israel. The line of your mother is how you are judged to be Jewish or not.

It is a complicated question, and in reality, I am not sure you could prove your relation to him, unless your family has strictly married Jewish.

But if I my wife and I were to convert, then any children born after would have a Jewish mother. I don't understand why genetics has to enter into it?

 

[lavikor201]

My grandfather is Jewish, his parents are pure Jewish, it would be a good idea if i traced my linage. How can this be done?

Not sure, but your 0% Jewish because your grandmother was not. But either way, not exactly sure how you would go about doing that.

But if I my wife and I were to convert, then any children born after would have a Jewish mother. I don't understand why genetics has to enter into it?

Kohen a part of the Levi tribe who are the "priests" who would do the sacrifices in the Temples are not aloud to marry converts, and like all Jews are not aloud to intermarry at all.

 

[north_malaysian]

The Government generally continued to permit Muslim citizens to make the Hajj during the period covered by this report. Because Israel and Saudi Arabia do not have diplomatic relations, Israeli Arab Muslims are required to transit Jordan and obtain Jordanian travel documents to enter Saudi Arabia. In Jordan, they temporarily relinquish their Israeli passports for the Jordanian documents. Their passports are returned to them upon re-entry into the country...

source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/relisrael03.html

 

[Grace Seeker]

But if I my wife and I were to convert, then any children born after would have a Jewish mother. I don't understand why genetics has to enter into it?

Kohen a part of the Levi tribe who are the "priests" who would do the sacrifices in the Temples are not aloud to marry converts, and like all Jews are not aloud to intermarry at all.

You completely missed my point.

As I understand it, the question at hand is: Who is Jewish?
Answer: Anyone with a Jewish mother and who keeps the Torah.


Scenario: Though not born Jewish, one's parents convert. They go through Bet Din. They practice Torah. They keep the Talmud. Their children are born after their converstion. And they raise their children Jewish.

I hear you talking about the importance of being able to trace your genetic code back to prove that you were Jewish.

My particular question is: Why that would be necessary? Wouldn't the children of this couple be as Jewish as any Kohen Jew?

And here is why I think the answer to that question should be: "Yes, these children are Jewish. It isn't necessary to trace your genetic code back like the Kohen can in order to prove that you are Jewish."
Because, as has already been said above. If your mother is Jewish and you were raised Jewish, and you keep Torah, then you are Jewish. It shouldn't make any difference what your grandmother was.

Just to provide some back-up to my personal opinion, let me give an answer to a similar question I found elsewhere (this on a Jewish website):

Question

Very basically, my mother converted to Judaism for the wrong intentions, to marry my father. The conversion was done, to my knowledge with the proper guidelines of an orthodox conversion, in front of a Bais Din and Mikveh. I need to know if am I really Jewish? And if not, what do I have to do to become Jewish?

Answer

The Bet Din usually refrains from converting people who have ulterior motives such as marriage - (source: "Code of Jewish Law" Y.D. 268:12). However, once a person is converted by the Bet Din, and there was a serious undertaking to study and observe the Torah, the conversion is valid.

So, I don't understand how having Kohen DNA or not, has anything at all to do with one being Jewish?

 

[snakelegs]

Israels descion was based on there Torah observance, and DNA. I imagine it would be terribly difficult for you to prove your relation to Isaac, when not Torah observant, and part of a family line that has most likley intermarried. Correct me, if I am making descions on your family that are inaccurate.
Peace.

i don't understand this. if it were true, most jews would not be recognized as having a right to israel! zionism, after all, was not founded by observant jews and was a political movement, not a religious one.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yeah, I don't understand that either.