Religion is number one instigator of violence?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you barney,

If your following the scriptures mate , yeah.
Head down this sunday with a car boot full of rocks and pelt the staff of Blockbusters to death for violating the Sabbath

People choose to follow what is in their own heart, and if they want to stone someone they will do it despite the teachings of Jesus.

You might consider that you have not been looking for the good that Jesus taught

In the spirit of searching for a peace that surpasses all understanding

Eric

 

[barney]

Greetings and peace be with you barney,
People choose to follow what is in their own heart, and if they want to stone someone they will do it despite the teachings of Jesus.

You might consider that you have not been looking for the good that Jesus taught

In the spirit of searching for a peace that surpasses all understanding

Eric

I think the message of jesus, or at least the ones that have made it into the Bible are generally fine, teach peace , mostly and I personally think that Jesus was a very fine individual as prophets go.

Just to let ya know.

 

[kirk]

The question was worded badly. The cause of violence in history is irrelevant to the cause of violence today. The question should be:
is religion the main instigator of violence in the year 2008?

I say yes.

If there were no religion there would be

- no Israel,

- no fighting in Afghanistan

- after Iraq was liberated from the dictator Saddam Hussein, the US would have withdrawn and the Iraqi and the people not be killing each other.

This would reduce most of the world’s violence, to a small amount,

K

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Hi
I'd like to present an argument ad absurdum:

Science has always been the number one cause for violence. The first time cavemans worked with iron was to make knives and arrowheads. The first chariots were used in battle. The first use of gunpowder was guns (hence the name). The first invention to follow E=mc2 was the atom bomb. The microwave was accidentally discovered while testing for radar systems in the army. The list is endless.​

The argument is of course as it's name suggests absurd. The scientific progress didn't cause violence. Violence is a part of human nature and some humans simply "abused" science because it is so powerful!

Getting back to religion, the question that should really bother you is not:
"Why are religions that preach tolerance and peace abused so much for violence?".
No the real question here is:
"Why are religions, and Islam in specific so powerful that people want to keep exploiting them?"

 

[Keltoi]

The question was worded badly. The cause of violence in history is irrelevant to the cause of violence today. The question should be:
is religion the main instigator of violence in the year 2008?

I say yes.

If there were no religion there would be

- no Israel,

- no fighting in Afghanistan

- after Iraq was liberated from the dictator Saddam Hussein, the US would have withdrawn and the Iraqi and the people not be killing each other.

This would reduce most of the world’s violence, to a small amount,

K

Why would the U.S. have withdrawn after deposing Saddam without religion? I don't see that religion played any part in it whatsoever.

Perhaps without religion there wouldn't have been an Al-Qaeda and therefore no War in Afghanistan, but I've come to the conclusion that Al-Qaeda( or some similar entity) would have existed anway. Al-Qaeda uses religion to gather followers and win support from isolated peoples, but its true aims are quite political in nature.

As for Israel...you might be correct, however this brings up another issue. The separation of religion and politics is a fairly recent turn of events. In the past, religion and politics have been intertwined to the point of being one behemoth institution. To say that religion alone has caused conflicts is normally untrue, since past conflicts have usually come about as a result of politics, religion, nationality, ethnicity, etc. It is hard to isolate religion and lay the blame on its doorstep.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Kirk;

If religion was the main reason to invade Iraq; then American and British Christians should be out there converting Iraq to Christianity.

If we really wanted to convert Iraq to Christianity then yes, it would be a war centred on religion.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[Fishman]

The number one cause of violence is people talking bad about Chuck Norris, and the number one conclusion to violence is when Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks them to the other side of the galaxy...

 

[ranma1/2]

*sighs*

as if there wouldnt be violence without religion.

and i really doubt there would be any less.

i agree. However, i do think that often religion is used as a source of justifcation or influence as well as often encouraging ignorance that leads to easier to manipulate people.

 

[ranma1/2]

Perhaps it woudl be more accurate to say that Organized religion often can lead a hand in violence. (as wellas preventing it)

 

[kirk]

Why would the U.S. have withdrawn after deposing Saddam without religion?

If there were no religion the Sunni and Shia would not be killing each other and the US would go home.

“But”…I hear you say, “..it’s a political and not religious conflict.”

If there were no religion there would be no Sunni or Shia and the 2 would not be in political conflict.

“But”…I hear you say, “..there would still be political conflict.”

To which I answer: Yes there would! If there were no religion I can see the sewing community taking up arms to gain political power. The chess community should watch out less their meeting places be fired upon or blown up.

I don’t need a forum – I can have a whole conversation on my own

K

 

[kirk]

If religion was the main reason to invade Iraq;

It wasn’t and I never said that it was. Please read carefully.

K

 

[kirk]

The number one cause of violence is people talking bad about Chuck Norris, and the number one conclusion to violence is when Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks them to the other side of the galaxy...

With humor you can join in my one sided conversation

K

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Kirk;

Originally Posted by Eric H

The number one cause of violence is people talking bad about Chuck Norris, and the number one conclusion to violence is when Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks them to the other side of the galaxy...

With humor you can join in my one sided conversation

K

Sadly I cannot take any credit for the Chuck Norris comments; that was down to our friend Fishman. However my aged granny could whoop Chuck Norris good and proper with one arm tied behind her back; she was an accomplished atheist.

Take care and peace be with you.

Eric

 

[Keltoi]

If there were no religion the Sunni and Shia would not be killing each other and the US would go home.

“But”…I hear you say, “..it’s a political and not religious conflict.”

If there were no religion there would be no Sunni or Shia and the 2 would not be in political conflict.

“But”…I hear you say, “..there would still be political conflict.”

To which I answer: Yes there would! If there were no religion I can see the sewing community taking up arms to gain political power. The chess community should watch out less their meeting places be fired upon or blown up.

I don’t need a forum – I can have a whole conversation on my own

K

Oh I get where you are coming from now. I actually agree, without religion there wouldn't be Sunni and Shia killing each other. However, I don't think you can separate political and religious causes for violence in most instances. Especially historically. In the modern age, I think one could make the accusation that religion is a cause for violence, but unfortunately, this accusation will rest upon Muslims to a great degree. Of course there are other groups committing violence in the name of God, or if not God, political or social grievances.

 

[barney]

Lets look at it on a flipside for a sec.
Does Religion bring peace?
How far up is religions peace bringing properties. Does it prevent violence much.

I could spend the next hour at my keyboards but ill just throw some stuff down.
1)Christian missionarys: Approaching the freshly butchered and cowed natives to teach them that killing a brother for stealing a cow is sinful.
2)War of the Roses
3)Kosovo 1999. Christians killing Christians to save muslims
4) Witchburning from 1300AD to 2008 AD in christian churches in Africa. "Souless Children" alongside Christian NGO's saving them.

 

[Amadeus85]

People would kill and murder without religion as well, they would just use different ideologies. Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung and Stalin didnt need religion to kill dozens millions of people. Neither of religion does support violence. If I had a child in future I would prefer that orthodox jew, muslim or sikh could take care of him/her while Im busy for example. Because I would be sure that it would be safe then. On the other hand I wouldn't give my child to maoist,communist,pagan or neo-nazi, because their moral fundaments are twisted and dangerous.

 

[barney]

People would kill and murder without religion as well, they would just use different ideologies. Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung and Stalin didnt need religion to kill dozens millions of people. Neither of religion does support violence. If I had a child in future I would prefer that orthodox jew, muslim or sikh could take care of him/her while Im busy for example. Because I would be sure that it would be safe then. On the other hand I wouldn't give my child to maoist,communist,pagan or neo-nazi, because their moral fundaments are twisted and dangerous.

All those examples you mentioned were deities of their religion mate.
They had scripture (red Books) Dogma, prophets, shrines, superiority of their system over all others,hymes .....the full works.
Communism and socialism as practiced by them was a religion.

 

[Amadeus85]

All those examples you mentioned were deities of their religion mate.
They had scripture (red Books) Dogma, prophets, shrines, superiority of their system over all others,hymes .....the full works.
Communism and socialism as practiced by them was a religion.

It is completely post modernistic thinking. Unlike you, I see the difference between religion and ideologies. In your type of thinking even collecting stamps can be a religion or being a football fan.

 

[truemuslim]

BLAME IT ON THE ATHIESTS!!

jk

lol
islam is peace
but some ppl take it the stupid-cough i mean wrong way
they think islam is going to a random place loaded under ur coat and blowing urself and innnocent ppl up. like seriously if u wanna kill ppl use a gun, that wway U dont die too! stuuuupid

if there was no religion all ppl would be eating each other and being dumbasses
as u can see... in islam u cannot murder or non of that
thats christianity
islam is all peace
ppl make things up and make it not peace, but those ppl are the stupid ppl so stop being stupid, ppl!
am guessing this thread was started by an ... cough cough athiest cough cough


o i hav a bad cough today

 

[barney]

The problem is with Humans.

If i was to create a religion based on Hasbro's My Little Ponys, a lovable genre for small girls based on freindship , love, sharing, hugs , hearts , glitter, cakes, parties, birthdays, fairgrounds and tenderness. All would be well till adult humans got hold of it.

Within fifty years, the Followers of the Sweetberry Sect would be slaughtering the Pinkie-Pieists with MAC10's over what Sweetberry meant by "Your my best freinds ever, Rainbowdash and Pinkie Pie"

Clearly this shows that Rainbowdash is superior in Sweetberrys eyes to pinkie-pie, and the Pinkie-pieists eat Shortcake when this is NOT mentioned in either the scripts or the Books. Which is the most sacred ground? Celebration Castle or Cotton Candys Cafe?