Saudi justice

[NoName55]

what are you saying here - women from south L.A. (=black or latino) wouldn't mind being raped by 6 men??????
:thumbs_do

well spotted! pity that had I reported it, I would not have been able to convince any MOD as to what it meant, not even If I had a million years to spend on them

 

[Jayda]

(maybe some from south L.A.).

you have no idea how humiliating and painful it is to be raped, or how scarring it is for the rest of your life. how scared you are that you might be pregnant or have a disease, how cold and numb you feel to be treated like that or how it feels to know you are a 'rape victim' for the rest of your life, like it is a title or a part of your identity, and to think that everybody sees you as a 'rape victim.' it is not a 'walk in the park'

 

[Malaikah]

What act do you think would incite rape?

A prostitute being with a client and backs out at the last minute but the man continues anyway.

That doesn't mean he is right, but the woman is obviously less innocent than a woman minding her own business doing her shopping and gets plucked off the street, and the men would deserve different punishments.

I wouldn't call it inciting rape, but it is putting ones self at risk of rape, and making it easier for the rapist.

 

[north_malaysian]

EDIT- The girl was alone with the boy before the rape

But with 200 lashes punishment? which is 100 more lashes than adultery?

Committing close-proximity in secluded place (Khalwat) is not under hudood punishment, thus the punishment must be lesser than hudood...right? :exhausted

 

[Tania]

But with 200 lashes punishment? which is 100 more lashes than adultery?

Committing close-proximity in secluded place (Khalwat) is not under hudood punishment, thus the punishment must be lesser than hudood...right? :exhausted

Do you think she will survive to 200 lashes :?

 

[Malaikah]

But with 200 lashes punishment? which is 100 more lashes than adultery?

Committing close-proximity in secluded place (Khalwat) is not under hudood punishment, thus the punishment must be lesser than hudood...right? :exhausted

Allahu a'lam, but it was increased because she went to the media... which is a different crime. Does it make a difference?

 

[Amadeus85]

What act do you think would incite rape?

One sheik from Australia said that every woman without hijab on head is inciting rape. After that he was forced to apologize.

 

[S_87]

One sheik from Australia said that every woman without hijab on head is inciting rape. After that he was forced to apologize.

was that his exact quote or were his words twisted?

 

[Tania]

One sheik from Australia said that every woman without hijab on head is inciting rape. After that he was forced to apologize.

In what society we are living . I am not suprised he was forced to apologize because otherwise this sentence prove the simple fact the men are going back from the evolution process.

 

[north_malaysian]

Do you think she will survive to 200 lashes :?

100 lashes for unmarried adulterers, and stone to death for married adulterers... which means those unmarried adulterers are meant to survive...

but 200 lashes... I dont know... that's why there should be no harsher punishment than the punishment prescribed in the Koran and Sunna.

God doesnt command 200 lashes punishment... maybe because it's over the limit.. and could cause death...

Imagine if the girl is dead after 200 lashes... then her status is no different to married adulterers... even she's unmarried.

 

[north_malaysian]

Allahu a'lam, but it was increased because she went to the media... which is a different crime. Does it make a difference?

I dont say that she's innocent for making herself "available" to be raped by those satans (I'm blaming the victim and the rapists)...

But the punishment should be lesser than God prescribed in the Koran. If she had to be punished with 200 lashes.. it's better for her to have sex two times on her own free will ... right?

And about "went to the media"... I dont see anything wrong with that...

 

[ayesha309]

i feel sorry for the victim becuase i feel 200 lashes is a lot and that it would probably cause death; especialy considering she is the "victim".
that being said, maybe we do not know the whole story, like maybe some important part of the story has been eliminated from the media which may justify the 200 lashes. like we do not know if she instigated the men to rape; and if she did instigate, then to what extent.
if she is being punished for something she did not do, then Allah will give her rewards and Insha'Allah jannah. on the ohter hand, perhaps some of her action may have been very wrong which is why Allah wants her punished. Allah'alam.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

was that his exact quote or were his words twisted?

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
Now, I don't think he was discussing the roast he left outside the other day...:mmokay:

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

:X

 

[Tania]

that being said, maybe we do not know the whole story, like maybe some important part of the story has been eliminated from the media which may justify the 200 lashes. like we do not know if she instigated the men to rape; and if she did instigate, then to what extent.

I am still wondering how can a woman to instigate at rape 6 men. I don't think they would hide any part of the story in condition when the story its in the media.

 

[Tania]

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

:X

How convenient. Lets lock up the woman inside of the house then. Or better why are they not redefining who its the master of the house because a man with such a weak way to think and behave cannot control a family.

 

[S_87]

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?
Now, I don't think he was discussing the roast he left outside the other day...:mmokay:

The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."

He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

:X

ok those words are insensitive if he said that, (the first part, the second part makes total sense if you understand the meaning) and i am not for what is happening to this lady.

however should blame be put totally on men when a woman is scantily clad? are men such animals they cant control their desires? many men say 'these women led them on.' yes they are wrong for raping and in many cases the women are totally innocent but in many cases women also have provoled the men by wearing 'sexy' clothes. for who? for herself? no, for men to see her.
you can disagree if you want but if it was for herself she wouldnt be wearing it only when shes out ....

islam gave women much honour. one of these honours is to protect the woman from such a case. not every man is a rapist or human an adulterer but the thing is-you dont know until its too late. which is why women are to cover

 

[Jayda]

hola

i consider myself a modestly dressed person, although by western and probably not by islamic standards. most of the time i wear turtleneck sweaters and skirts of modest length. nevertheless i am still called a 'tease' very often by drunk people or jerks in public who are angry when i don't respond to cat calls or other kinds of irritation.

there are people in the world who, regardless of what you are wearing, believe it is okay to harass you just because of your age and gender. but this is not so of gentlemen or just normal men who i speak to throughout the day... nobody leers at me or says inappropriate things. i live in the same town i grew up in and i interact with the same people i have for many many years so they still think of me as esteban's little girl there are a lot of kind people in my life, from the baker to the postman.

i think the only thing which makes me feel uncomfortable from people in this echelon are some boys i grew up with who i know have very strong feelings for me, that they have not ever admitted and they are gentlemen though to continue not saying anything.

i think for everybody it is the same, there are incontinent and rude people who cannot control their behavior, and there are good people who are polite and not rude.

because of this 'leading people on' with the way one dresses is a matter of opinion based on their level of self control. in my mind it makes sense to dress modestly according to the standards of the people i respect, rather than modest according to what will keep non selfgoverning people away from me.

i do not mean to insult, but i think that is kind of what islam requires... dress that will even prevent attracting attention from incontinent people. while i think it is sweet that muslims value women so much that they want to prevent them from experiencing that kind of behavior, i think it would be much much better to try to control the behavior of those people instead.

in any instance i do not agree at all that women could share blame in being raped. i also think that those kinds of thoughts are very dangerous because very often the victim wants to blame herself or look for ways she could have done something differently and by saying things like this it only adds fuel to the fire.

rape is not always about desire... i think humiliation or anger are every bit as important in motivating rapists. like murder it is antisocial behavior, something is wrong, with them, to do such a thing.

que Dios te bendiga

 

[al-muslimah]

By aamisaab
"
Punishing a victim of a rape has nothing to do with sharia law. Whoever allowed that through the system is a complete jack-ass. "

What did you expect the saudi so called islamic government kills the true scholars let alone punishing a rape victim.Some islamic government they are all apostates, the saudi royal family, al saud. complete murtadeen.

 

[Jayda]

also, one more thing if i may

saudi culture in the news is not the same thing as saudi culture. the general perception is that saudis are all wealthy, tasteless and extravagant, severely misogynist and abusive, religious lunatics and barbaric. with that frame of mind people look at things in saudi arabia and interpret based on this.

the way saudi women dress is such an example... i think the media and in general this is percieved as part of the misogyny we assume is so fundamental to saudi arabia. but i know saudis from college and i have seen things (like the clip in the non muslim womens section) on youtube or on myspace from young saudi women about their lives which shows a much different picture... that saudi fathers (especially), husbands and brothers are VERY protective of the women in their lives and that constant monitering and modesty are a matter of their safety and not to control them.

my friend samira from college was really interesting, her father sent her to the united states to columbia university so that she could get the absolute best education. people acted like this was some very rare thing and that her father must have been very liberal or unusual, she said this was very normal in her country and that it was considered by many fathers just as big a dishonor that a woman should be ignorant,than as a woman should wear immodest clothing.

like any parent they want intelligent, happy and successful daughters.

but the thing that really surprised me was that she said honor is not the most important thing. protection and the happyness of their children was more important.

i also have seen this in videos on the internet, one recently (again, the one in the non muslim womens section) talked about how a woman was encouraged by her husband to work and continue writing because they needed the money, she enjoyed doing it, and he thought she would like it

none of these things conforms to the stereotypes so they are conveniently forgotten. instead the most outrageous stories make our newspapers, about girls being burned to death in schools or 200 lashes for being raped. while i know these things are true, i think i can safely say saudi husbands, fathers and brothers are just as appalled and offended by this as we are.

i am not without evidence, one such example was the saudi newswoman who was beaten so badly by her husband that she was hospitalized and when the pictures were released there was such a public outcry that he has been sent numerous death threats. it is not a joke to them, this is not their culture.

while i do not think it is necessary to wear full length clothing hiding every part of a woman's body, or to be sure that there is a trustworthy male protector for her everywhere... i do not deny that this is done out of love and not control

so let's not confuse abhorrent things for the status quo

que Dios te bendiga

 

[Jayda]

here is an article about ms. baz

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3667349.stm