Sikhism

AvarAllahNoor said:
Sikhism is based on the one God, so i don't need to convert in-order to be accepted by God!

"I observe neither Hindu fasting nor the ritual of the Muslim Ramadan month; Him I serve who at the last shall save. The Lord of universe of the Hindus, Gosain and Allah to me are one; From Hindus and Muslims have I broken free. I perform neither Kaaba pilgrimage nor at bathing spots worship; One sole Lord I serve, and no other. I perform neither the Hindu worship nor the Muslim prayer; To the Sole Formless Lord in my heart I bow. We neither are Hindus nor Muslims; Our body and life belong to the One Supreme Being who alone is both Ram and Allah for us." Guru Arjan, Guru Granth Sahib, Raga Bhairon page 1136
Click to expand...
:sl:
Good, now you have to accept that Muhammad was the final messenger of Allah. If you don't accept that, then you are not a Muslim.

That quote did not disprove what I said. It proves that Sikhs believe that fasting is worthless, but the question of whether fasting actually is worthess or not remains unanswered.
:w:
 
imran_c said:
so this therefore indicates a contradiction in the verse i posted and the verse you posted hence the guru granth shaib is a book with many contracdictions
Click to expand...

How is it a contradiction when the other verses apply to followers of other religions, but for sikhs it's followong Sikhi!
 
Mohsin said:
Lol when did i ever make the suggestion the whole world is muslim.



:uhwhat

Same old anti-islamic false lies and claims

It was written in scrolls and pieces of parchments during his time, under his supervision. It was memorised by hundreds of companions. His own sayings were also recorded, and memorised. So its not true that the Qur'an was comiled after he died. the qur'an we have today is exacly the same as the one which was revealed to him 1400 years ago, so stop with these baseless copy and paste lies from anti-islamists



When such happens you analyse the message, to see its authenticity. analyse the Qur'an and feel for yourself whether it is a man that has written it, or can you feel God actually speaking to you. Analyse the seerah, the life of prophet Muhammed PBUH and see if his life was one of a Prophet, or of a liar who claimed to have received revelation but actually never. islam despite all this scrutinisation, still prevails as truth, and Muhammed PBUH is nothing but a truthful messenger

Read the following discussion. it was between at the time a non-muslim and a christian king, talking about prophet Muhammed PBUH

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546990

Also see this thread here

Prove that the Qur'an IS the word of God

The first page of that thread is sufficient for you to read.



Incorrect, i keep receiving contradicting answers and views from all of you. You answer in riddles, not answering to the point. I ask you believe all religions are right, you avoid the answer, as you know it is contradicting to think so. i ask you do you believe prophet Muhammed is a prophet, you say yes, but when i ask ok so since you assume he is a prophet, then you will know he speaks the truth, so when i ask why did he say he is the last prophet, why do you not believe him. Again you either run away and not answer, or answer in ambigious riddles. I am trying to learn and understand this complex sikh docrtrine, but am finding it rather difficult with so many contradicting answers



Hmm interesting. From what i've learnt from other sikhs on this thread, is nanak went to mecca baghdad himalays and all these places preaching sikhism, and had many people revert in punjab. if this is not shoving religion in someones faith then what is it. This is an islamic forum, you came here. If you don't like teh questions don't answer them, but it will speak volumes on your the level of your belief and faith in your religion
Click to expand...

Thats funny cus thats what I'm told by Muslims in regard to the quran being written after. Under supervision? Riddles?
People give their own opinions which sometimes vary, hence in your eyes you might see contradictions-but the source is the same. Same with Muslims too.
I apologise if you feel I am offending your religion cus I have no intention of doing so.
For you Muhammed is a truthful messenger and the quran is the 100% word of God. For me it isn't.

As for Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji- he didn't go around preaching about a new found worldly religion nor did he ask ppl to convert, instead he preached the truth and the correct way to God. Read up on Sikh history, then maybe you will be in a better position to make comments on Sikhi. For further info plzzz do read last posts.
Sikh simply means disciple, just how you are a disciple of Muhammed.

And no one is dodging your questions, ppl have given their opinions- plzz do read. No one is trying to run away.

I don't understand how it will speak volumes on my faith by not responding. Its just the same questions being asked over and over again by ppl who cannot accept the validity of other faiths. If I had any intention of trying to change your views then I would be posting a hell of a lot more with many links, but to me and many other Sikhs your narrow views don't speak volumes.
By not responding to every bit of anti-Islamic stuff on the net and elsewhere, would that make you any less of a Muslim?


bhul chuk maaf
 
Last edited:
jss said:
Read the threads on Sikhi



Moss,
Whats with the narrow minded comments.
No Sikh of the Guru can accept the quran as the 100% word of God because some of it is inconsistant with Gurmat and no, not believed as 100% word of God. Same with Islam, that is why many bhagats even before the Guru's times spoke against empty religious rituals and practices within Islam and Hinduism that do not lead to God.
So why contemplate the quran or the puraanas?
Again it comes back to the context in which you look at things, which you yourself said earlier in relation to the word 'kaffir'- either in hatred and in contempt or just in reference to a non-Muslim.

Furthermore you can have a Muslim who lives life by doing good deeds, respecting others etc
Or you can have a Muslim who blows himself up killing innocents.
Depends on how ppl study the quran and how they perceive and implement its teachings.

The quran has teachings (correct me if I'm wrong) on doing good deeds and charity which is consistent with Gurmat. Therefore how can we dismiss the quran or the bible or the vedas as totally false- if our faith emphasised that then we would be contradicting ourselves-cus we would also be condemning part of our teachings which advocate truthful living and also practicing good deeds.
So how I see it, it is not entirely false or 100% word of God but I do respect it and your religion.

Rehit maryada also directs us to avoid being missionaries and slandering others religion because it just leads to ego i.e my religion is better than yours, im follow the truth-all else are false etc etc....
And ego hinders spiritual progress.

As for Guru and prophet, they are not on the same levels.
Only through the Guru can salvation be obtained from the cycle of life and death, this no prophet, diety can do.
So to settle any debate- simply put that your religion is beautiful to you and mine is too me.
As for answers- why not reading all comments and researching Sikhi (first hand) for yourself rather than trying to look for flaws and contradictions.

Contemplate that.:thankyou:

bhul chuk maaf
Click to expand...

Moss Sahib ji
Here is my opinion I posted a while back in regard to the Prophet Muhammed and the quran-100% word of God??

bhul chuk maaf
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
Good, now you have to accept that Muhammad was the final messenger of Allah. If you don't accept that, then you are not a Muslim.

That quote did not disprove what I said. It proves that Sikhs believe that fasting is worthless, but the question of whether fasting actually is worthess or not remains unanswered.
:w:
Click to expand...

But he isn't the final messenger! - Gurbani insists fasting is worthess, this is all we requirre as it's the word of God!
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
But he isn't the final messenger! - Gurbani insists fasting is worthess, this is all we requirre as it's the word of God!
Click to expand...
:sl:
Prove that it's the word of God. I've already seen loads of external contradictions in the quotes posted here.
:w:
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
Prove that it's the word of God. I've already seen loads of external contradictions in the quotes posted here.
:w:
Click to expand...


“Jaisi me aavai khasam ki bani
Taisra kari gyan, vay Lalo.”

‘O Lalo, as I receive the Word of the Lord, so do I utter’
[SGGS Guru Nanak Tilang M.I. 722]

I do not even know how to speak on my own, I speak what the Lord commands.
(Guru Arjan, Page 763, line 6)

The Word of God is True, and True are those who speak of God. Those ears are True, and True are those who listen to the Lords Praises.
(Guru Arjan, Page 285, Line 8)

The Lord, the Master is True. Judgment is rendered according to God's commands. God's justice is true.
(Guru Nanak, Page 723 Line, 2)

Whatever is said to be, is from You, O Lord.
(Guru Nanak, Page 905, Line 14)

This is proof! You stick to the Kuran and we'll stick to the Guru Granth Ji!
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
“Jaisi me aavai khasam ki bani
Taisra kari gyan, vay Lalo.”

‘O Lalo, as I receive the Word of the Lord, so do I utter’
[SGGS Guru Nanak Tilang M.I. 722]

I do not even know how to speak on my own, I speak what the Lord commands.
(Guru Arjan, Page 763, line 6)

The Word of God is True, and True are those who speak of God. Those ears are True, and True are those who listen to the Lords Praises.
(Guru Arjan, Page 285, Line 8)

The Lord, the Master is True. Judgment is rendered according to God's commands. God's justice is true.
(Guru Nanak, Page 723 Line, 2)

Whatever is said to be, is from You, O Lord.
(Guru Nanak, Page 905, Line 14)

This is proof! You stick to the Kuran and we'll stick to the Guru Granth Ji!
Click to expand...
:sl:
no it isn't. If I wrote a book which claimed to be the Word of God (which I wouldn't do since I prefer to stay out of the Fire), does that mean it is?
:w:
 
jss said:
Thats funny
Click to expand...

Lol it is funny cos what you are writing is making me laugh, as i know no educated muslim would ever say such a thing. When the Qur'an was revealed to muhammed PBUH it would be memorised by everyone. This may sound hard to you but it isn't, today pakistani and indian kids as young as 9 know the WHOLE qur'an off by heart, so think of the companions who know and understand the language, they can easily learn it off by heart. In addition to that it was written down on parchments under the prophet PBUH's supervision. After he died a lot of huffaz (people who have memorized Qur'an) died, so the leader of the believers Abu bakr decided to have it compiled into one book, as it is now. It was copied from the parchmnets that were around during the prophets time. NOTE it was done under supervision of companions who had memorized the Qur'an fully. 2 were used for more accuracy and reliability, as if both of them happened to agree, it must be the original. then later when it spread to different arab countries of different dialects then the 3rd leader Uthman, decided to have one standardised text with vowels in place so that even people of different regions would still recite Qur'an as it was by the prophet. read this for more info rather than readin what liars on anti-islamic sites say http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=762&section=indepth&subsection=Glorious Quran

For you Muhammed is a truthful messenger and the quran is the 100% word of God. For me it isn't.
Click to expand...

You said for me it isn't, which part isn't, the part that he's a truthful messenger, or just that the Qur'an is the word of god. By the way did you read the link i gave you?

As for Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji- he didn't go around preaching about a new found worldly religion nor did he ask ppl to convert, instead he preached the truth and the correct way to God
Click to expand...

LOL thats the same thing bro, its still preaching a new message saying this is the true way to god, ie the others aren't the true way, ie the others are wrong. Tell me, when people left islam or hinduism and became sikhs, did nanak stop them, or was he happy that they had become sikh and left their former religion of rituals??

And no one is dodging your questions, ppl have given their opinions- plzz do read. No one is trying to run away
Click to expand...

we'll see how many of my questions at tyhe bottom of this post you wioll answer. And btw I have twice asked AvarAllahNoor to reply to two of my posts, and yet he has refused to do so. You could easily have replied aswell but you declined to do so

Its just the same questions being asked over and over again by ppl who cannot accept the validity of other faiths
Click to expand...

Listen, how is that logically possible. If you are saying is islam is a valid faith, then Islam says Muhammed PBUH is the last Prophet. Either this is true and a fact or it isn't. If you are saying Christianity is a valid faith, then Jesus is the son of God. Either that sentence is true or it isn't, either he is the son of God or he isn't.

Look at what Allah says in the Qur'an says about whether he is the son of god;

And they say: the Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a Son. Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall to ruins, that ye ascribe to the Beneficent a son, when it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should chose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.
(Qur’an 19:88-93)​

How can both be valid. now please answer this question, lets see if you do
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
no it isn't. If I wrote a book which claimed to be the Word of God (which I wouldn't do since I prefer to stay out of the Fire), does that mean it is?
:w:
Click to expand...

This isn't just any Tom Dik or Harry this was Guru Nanak and he was one with God just as you claim Mohammed to have been! Sikhism is tolerant of other religions but you're religion is foll of flaws. Yes Sikhs are told the way to get to God for a muslim is through Islam, Jews through judaism etc etc but we're told it's not the path of the Sikhs!

That's all i shall say as you know all your questions have been aswered.

Gur Fateh!
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
This isn't just any Tom Dik or Harry this was Guru Nanak and he was one with God just as you claim Mohammed to have been! Sikhism is tolerant of other religions but you're religion is foll of flaws. Yes Sikhs are told the way to get to God for a muslim is through Islam, Jews through judaism etc etc but we're told it's not the path of the Sikhs!

That's all i shall say as you know all your questions have been aswered.

Gur Fateh!
Click to expand...
:sl:
Just because the Guru Granth Sahib says it's the Word of God doesn't mean it actually is. And just because Guru Nanak claimed to be 'one with God', that doesn't mean he actually was.

Our questions have not been answered. If they had been, then we wouldn't be asking you to answer them.
:w:
 
as-salam alaykum wara matulha
As you can see this verse indicates that the guru granth shaib isnt a word of god and just words of humans:
Page545 Line 17 Raag Bihaagrhaa: Guru Arjan Dev

jp qp brq kIny pyKn kau crxw rwm ]
jap thap barath keenae paekhan ko charanaa raam ||
I have practiced chanting, intensive meditation and fasting, to see Your Feet, O Lord.

And this also indicates this person is doing the following things to strive to see god.
Also
Page216 Line 5 Raag Gaurhee Maalaa: Guru Arjan Dev

brq nym sMjm mih rhqw iqn kw AwFu n pwieAw ]
barath naem sanjam mehi rehathaa thin kaa aadt n paaeiaa ||
Fasting, daily rituals, and austere self-discipline - those who keep the practice of these, are rewarded with less than a shell.

Acording to your granth fasting you will still get rewarded so it is not in vain and you should fast as each blessing will be counted
walaykum salaam wara matulha
 
4th time i've said this. this whole thread covers the topics/questions asked. It would appear i'm the only Sikh fool who keeps responding to your repetive questions, but that's because i thrive on questions as Sikhism is the religion of the Lord :)

The Sikh Gurus were in direct communion with God and narrated only God’s Word. Guru Nanak Dev Ji writes, “When I speak, I speak as You make me speak” (Guru Granth Sahib, 565). Furthermore, the fourth Guru, Guru Ram Das Ji writes, “O God, O Creator, Lord and Master of the devotee Nanak, as You wish, so do I speak” (Guru Granth Sahib, 800). In addition, “O Sikhs of Guru, know that the Word of the True Guru is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it” (Guru Granth Sahib, 308). Everything Sikh Gurus said was instructed to them by God. Guru Arjun Dev Ji (the fifth Guru) writes, “What can I say? I don't know what to say. Whatever pleases God, so do I speak” (Guru Granth Sahib, 1202). In addition, “The Word of the Guru has been emanated from God. It eradicates all anxiety” (Guru Granth Sahib, 627).

Before the coming of the Gurus, India was filled with discrimination due to a very strong belief in the caste system. Most people believed in making pilgrimages, black magic and other such superstitions. Essentially people had forgotten God. God sent the Sikh Gurus in this world in order to enlighten people and showed them the path to salvation and eternal bliss.

The tenth Guru, Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes, “I did not wanted to come in this world. My mind was immersed in God. Then somehow God explained me His purpose and sent me to this world with His directive. Then God said, ‘I establish thee as my son, You are to create a religion. Go and create a religion and stop people from doing unrighteousness and evil actions.’ I stood up, with my palms joined and bowing my head to God and said, ‘I will only be able to create a religion when You help me.’ This is the reason God send me in this world and I was born in this world. I speak as God told me. I have no enmity with anyone. Those who call me God, will fall into the pit of hell. Consider me as a humble servant of God and have no doubt about it. I am a servant of the Supreme Being and have come to witness His worldly play. I have come in this world for this purpose. God sent me for the purpose of religion. Wherever you will spread this religion, evil and wicked will be eliminated. I have taken birth for this purpose. Let the holy men understand this well. I have come to spread the divine religion, protection of the devotees of God and the annihilation (elimination) of all evils.” (Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Vachitar Natak).

Hence Guru Gobind Singh Ji completed the purpose for which he and the nine Gurus before Him were sent: by creating the Sikh religion. God’s purpose of enlightening people was started by sending Guru Nanak Dev Ji in this world, carried on by sending the next eight Gurus and completed by sending Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Hence Sikhism is a religion created by God through the Sikh Gurus.

Mohammed is a prophet and all we do is respect him (called tolerance) but what the kuran says is not to be taken as the scriptures of the Sikhs!
 
Last edited:
imran_c said:
as-salam alaykum wara matulha
As you can see this verse indicates that the guru granth shaib isnt a word of god and just words of humans:
Page545 Line 17 Raag Bihaagrhaa: Guru Arjan Dev

jp qp brq kIny pyKn kau crxw rwm ]
jap thap barath keenae paekhan ko charanaa raam ||
I have practiced chanting, intensive meditation and fasting, to see Your Feet, O Lord.

And this also indicates this person is doing the following things to strive to see god.
Also
Page216 Line 5 Raag Gaurhee Maalaa: Guru Arjan Dev

brq nym sMjm mih rhqw iqn kw AwFu n pwieAw ]
barath naem sanjam mehi rehathaa thin kaa aadt n paaeiaa ||
Fasting, daily rituals, and austere self-discipline - those who keep the practice of these, are rewarded with less than a shell.

Acording to your granth fasting you will still get rewarded so it is not in vain and you should fast as each blessing will be counted
walaykum salaam wara matulha
Click to expand...

Brother you don't even understand who worte what! So these verses won't make any difference to you, until explained i have no time.
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
Just because the Guru Granth Sahib says it's the Word of God doesn't mean it actually is. And just because Guru Nanak claimed to be 'one with God', that doesn't mean he actually was.

Our questions have not been answered. If they had been, then we wouldn't be asking you to answer them.
:w:
Click to expand...

Well if the Granth is not from God how is the Kuran? (even though we respect it it may have been altered by muslims, just as you claim the Bible has been) :thankyou:
 
AvarAllahNoor said:
Well if the Granth is not from God how is the Kuran? (even though we respect it it may have been altered by muslims, just as you claim the Bible has been) :thankyou:
Click to expand...
:sl:
Reasons why the Quran is the word of Allah:
1. The Bible mentions Muhammad (pbuh) almost by name.

2. The Quran mentions that the centre of the brain that controls lying and agression (and many other things) is in the forelock. This was discovered my medical scientists only a few decades ago, and cannot be discovered wothout electricity.

3. The Quran always reffers to bees and ants as female. There are very few male bees and ants, and the sex of bees wasn't discovered until relatively recently. In fact, during Muhammad(pbuh)'s time, people most likely thought of ants and bees as soldiers and farmers, jobs which were taken up most frequently by men.

4. The Quran is not corrupted, the earliest fragments of the Quran known(written on bones and papyrus) date from the Prophet(pbuh)'s time, and do not diverge from the modern one. Source.

5. Most of Muhammad(pbuh)'s 'minor' prophecies have come true. And to refute silly people who say 'but people can contort prophecies to mean anything', these were not 'Book of Revelation-type prophecies', full of vague dragons and sepents, but definite, bang-on accurate predictions, such as naming the Muslim who conquered Constantinople.

6. To take the Bible literally you have to throw out science. There are no scientific contradictions in the Quran, and there are a number of times when the Quran actually corrects the Bible.

So, if the Quran says it's the final revelation, or Muhammad (pbuh) says he's the final Prophet, you better take them seriously.

It's better to have your faith rooted in logic, rather than just having blind faith, or believing for asthetic appeal.
:w:
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top