Sinning

[Woodrow]

im sorry when did i say this? God can forgive us if we accept jesus because jesus died for the sins, but he will only forgive us if we are truely sorry and willing to repent. God knows everything and he obviously knows if we are sorry or not. only by accepting Christ can we be forgiven. at no point did i say Jesus us makes it ok to carry on sinning.



You say we worship the same God, but i disagree, my Gods loves us enough to send a saviour, your God has not done this. Correct me if im wrong.

God bless

You say we worship the same God, but i disagree, my Gods loves us enough to send a saviour, your God has not done this. Correct me if im wrong.

Do you agree that God(swt) is infinitly powerfull and can do simly by saying it is done?

Are we as Humans so arrogant that we think we can do something so strong that God(swt) would have to provide a sacrifice in order for Him to forgive us? Isn't that giving us a little bit too much value in the universe? Isn't that also saying God(swt) is not infinitly powerfull and can not forgive without simply saying the word? Dosen't God(swt) love us enough so that if it is his will to forgive us as individuals he only needs to say the word?

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

We also believe that God will figive us if we are truely sorry, but only throught Christ!

You dont believe that God doesnt need to send down a son as a sacrafice, well i believe God is so rightous and pure that a sacrifice had to be made for his creations evil / sin.

I believe he is so rightous he cant be in the presence of sin, and the blood of Jesus washes that sin away.

Just before Jesus died in the NT Jesus said " Father why have u forsaken me"? Because for the first time in his life God had to look away from him, for the first time God looked away from him because he was carrying the worlds sin. God cannot look upon sin......until that soul has been cleasned by the precious blood of Chist. The great sacrifice, our salvation.

 

[snakelegs]

Are we as Humans so arrogant that we think we can do something so strong that God(swt) would have to provide a sacrifice in order for Him to forgive us? Isn't that giving us a little bit too much value in the universe? Isn't that also saying God(swt) is not infinitly powerfull and can not forgive without simply saying the word? Dosen't God(swt) love us enough so that if it is his will to forgive us as individuals he only needs to say the word?

good point.

 

[- Qatada -]

The concept on Jesus dieing for our sins doesnt give him the same qualities as God, its shows how he became man for us, but the miracles Jesus performed gives him the same qualities as God, because he was God as a man,

The reason why its so hard to believe is because you said that jesus (peace be upon him) was God, so does that mean god sacrificed himself? And if he sacrificed himself, then why did jesus say 'why has thou forsaken me' if he himself was god?

And if god sacrificed himself, then we as muslims feel that God does not put himself down.


But instead, God sends messengers to mankind to tell them to worship the one God who created them, all the way from Aadam till Muhammad (peace be upon him.) And Jesus (peace be upon him) is a messenger of God too, who performed many miracles by the will of God, but the reason he performed them miracles was to call people to worship the One God who created them. Each prophet had their own miracle to call people to God.

If the humans in that nation obeyed God, they would be granted paradise, whereas if they rejected worshipping God - they would end up in the hellfire.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

but now you say IF YOU ARE TRULLY SORRY...

Who judges if youa re trully sorry ...you or god?
How do you know that you are forgiven?
Do you take it upon yourself that becasue YOU think you accept Propeht Jesus son of Mary as as god then you are forgiven?

Ok firstly i think its common sense that if some1 is not truely sorry why should they be forgiven? excuse my lack of words but i think ur bright enuf to work out what i meant.

How do u know your forgiven? You believe that quran but u dnt know ur forgiven. i dont know im forgiven but i believe the bible and believe that now i live for christ i am forgiven, thats part of faith.

Isn't that giving us a little bit too much value in the universe? Isn't that also saying God(swt) is not infinitly powerfull and can not forgive without simply saying the word? Dosen't God(swt) love us enough so that if it is his will to forgive us as individuals he only needs to say the word?

Like i said, the God i believe in is so rightous he cannot look upon sin, and if ur God can forgive just by saying the word, i wudnt want to follow him if he was true, but thats my on views, i want my God to be so rightous he cant be around sin.

 

[Woodrow]

We also believe that God will figive us if we are truely sorry, but only throught Christ!

You dont believe that God doesnt need to send down a son as a sacrafice, well i believe God is so rightous and pure that a sacrifice had to be made for his creations evil / sin.

I believe he is so rightous he cant be in the presence of sin, and the blood of Jesus washes that sin away.

Just before Jesus died in the NT Jesus said " Father why have u forsaken me"? Because for the first time in his life God had to look away from him, for the first time God looked away from him because he was carrying the worlds sin. God cannot look upon sin......until that soul has been cleasned by the precious blood of Chist. The great sacrifice, our salvation.

"I believe he is so rightous he cant be in the presence of sin, and the blood of Jesus washes that sin away."

Yet, you say God(swt) and Jesus(pbuh) are the same person. If that was true would that not mean God(swt) was in the presence of sin, which you say he can not be?

 

[glo]

Do you agree that God(swt) is infinitly powerfull and can do simly by saying it is done?

Are we as Humans so arrogant that we think we can do something so strong that God(swt) would have to provide a sacrifice in order for Him to forgive us? Isn't that giving us a little bit too much value in the universe? Isn't that also saying God(swt) is not infinitly powerfull and can not forgive without simply saying the word? Dosen't God(swt) love us enough so that if it is his will to forgive us as individuals he only needs to say the word?

Yes, but equally, who are we to judge how God chooses to deal with his people? :?

Who are we to say that God should not choose to sacrifice his son as atonement for our sins?
Isn't that like saying 'God, I know better than you?' :X

Peace.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

like i said, Water and Ice are the same but in different forms, Jesus was God in a different God, I believe God sent the son because the father couldnt be in our sin, so thats why he sent himself in the form on a man rathewr than God himselff the father.

 

[- Qatada -]

How do u know your forgiven? You believe that quran but u dnt know ur forgiven. i dont know im forgiven but i believe the bible and believe that now i live for christ i am forgiven, thats part of faith.

We will find out on the day of judgement. Where the believers will be rewarded for what they did, and the disbelievers will be punished for what they did.

Like i said, the God i believe in is so rightous he cannot look upon sin, and if ur God can forgive just by saying the word, i wudnt want to follow him if he was true, but thats my on views, i want my God to be so rightous he cant be around sin.

God created everything, and God created sin to test if men would incline to sin or would they submit to God instead.

Because God created sin, the disbeliever will be punished for it. And the believer will be rewarded for their good. God does not fear sin, but it is only a trial to test mankind.



Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

 

[- Qatada -]

like i said, Water and Ice are the same but in different forms, Jesus was God in a different God, I believe God sent the son because the father couldnt be in our sin, so thats why he sent himself in the form on a man rathewr than God himselff the father.

Isn't that polytheism? Worshipping two gods? Because ice and water are two different substances.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Because God created sin, the disbeliever will be punished for it. And the believer will be rewarded for their good. God does not fear sin, but it is only a trial to test mankind.

Well i dont know about God creating sin, maybe he did, but u could say God created freedom of choice to the angels and man and we created sin ourself. If it wasnt possible to sin from day 1 then God wud have created a bunch of robots, but i guess he wants us to choose him, and choose to live and Godly life.

 

[- Qatada -]

Yes, but equally, who are we to judge how God chooses to deal with his people? :?

Who are we to say that God should not choose to sacrifice his son as atonement for our sins?
Isn't that like saying 'God, I know better than you?' :X

Peace.

We believe that God is too great to have offspring of any kind. And God does not lower Himself to the state of a humanbeing.

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute

He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

And there is none like unto Him


(Chapter 113 in the Qur'an)​

​

Peace.

 

[- Qatada -]

Well i dont know about God creating sin, maybe he did, but u could say God created freedom of choice to the angels and man and we created sin ourself. If it wasnt possible to sin from day 1 then God wud have created a bunch of robots, but i guess he wants us to choose him, and choose to live and Godly life.

Yup and thats one of the similarities between christianity and islam.

However, we don't believe that we as humans created sin, and we don't believe that angels have a freedom of choice - but instead, they worship God continuously, and never disobey God whatsoever. Whereas man is prone to error, and will continuously fall into sin - therefore man should always strive towards his Lord and beg for forgiveness.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

 

[Woodrow]

Well i dont know about God creating sin, maybe he did, but u could say God created freedom of choice to the angels and man and we created sin ourself. If it wasnt possible to sin from day 1 then God wud have created a bunch of robots, but i guess he wants us to choose him, and choose to live and Godly life.

I have no disagreement with that statement. I believe that to be true, except instead of saying "we created sin ourself" I would say it as "we choose sin ourself".

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Isn't that polytheism? Worshipping two gods? Because ice and water are two different substances

if water as liquid is nice to drink, water as solid ( ice ) is nice to suck.

If God as a man is worthy of praise, God as son is also, especially if he scaraficed himself for us

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

if God as father is worthy to praise, so is the son***

 

[glo]

We believe that God is too great to have offspring of any kind. And God does not lower Himself to the state of a humanbeing.

I know you do.

Christians believe otherwise.
Either way, God is great, and above all our disagreements and squabblings!
:statisfie

God Bless.

 

[Woodrow]

Perhaps this would be a good time to start pointing out our areas of agreement.

I think we can agree there is only one God(swt)

I think we can agree Jesus(I'sa)(pbuh) was born of a miraculous birth to a virgin, Maryam (Mary) and the birth was hearaled by the angels.

I think we can agree that Man sins and can not enter the gates of Heaven without the sins being forgiven.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

awsome, enjoyed that guys, speak again soon no doubt

God bless

My name is sean btw im 18 / m / scotland

 

[glo]

Perhaps this would be a good time to start pointing out our areas of agreement.

I think we can agree there is only one God(swt)

I think we can agree Jesus(I'sa)(pbuh) was born of a miraculous birth to a virgin, Maryam (Mary) and the birth was hearaled by the angels.

I think we can agree that Man sins and can not enter the gates of Heaven without the sins being forgiven.

Good starting point, Woodrow!