The Bible Came from Arabia

[MustafaMc]

I am reading a book, 'The Bible Came from Arabia', by Kamal Salibi. The back cover states (in blue with my emphasis in CAPS):

"I believe I have made a remarkable discovery, which should make possible a radical reinterpretation of the Old Testament"

Kamal Salibi, professor of history at the American University of Beirut, reveals startling linguistic evidence which controversially suggests that Judaism originated not in Palestine BUT IN WEST ARABIA (my emphasis).

Whilst looking at a gazetteer of Saudi place names, he noticed a remarkable concentration of Biblical place names in an area 600km long by 200km wide (the region of 'Asir). Ancient Hebrew, like Arabic, was written without vowels. Salibi believes that the scholars of the sixth century might have added the vowels WRONGLY when standardizing texts, and so he went back to the original unvowelled Old Testament to prove his theory - and it did.

The geography of Palestine has never corresponded in any way to the apparently specific stories in the Bible. Salibi's research authenticates the events as history for the first time - but with an ARABIAN SETTING.

This book has caused a predictable storm amongst academics and politicians. The issue is of such importance that everyone should read the evidence first-hand.

 

[MustafaMc]

I came across this book from a post on FaceBook by a Christian friend. This is what he wrote:

This is a Google satellite map, note area of map from southwestern Saudi Arabia roughly outlined in red, is where Dr. Kamal Salibi in his 1985 book "The Bible Came From Arabia" says is the land of Abram (Abraham). The area roughly outlined in blue, is where Salibi says is the land of Moses. THESE areas may actually be the PROMISED LAND & not Israel Jerusalem over 845 miles (1360 km) to the north.

I replied to his post with:

The nofthern boundary of this area is only about 75 miles from Mecca. Muslims believe that Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael to the area of the Kabba in Mecca and left them there. I had wondered how he could have traveled from the area of Palestine down to Mecca, but the area in red border would be a very manageable trip.

 

[Hulk]

Bacca is Mecca?

 

[Al-manar]

I am reading a book, 'The Bible Came from Arabia', by Kamal Salibi.

I haven't read the book ,though I have another book ( The Torah event and the ancient near east .by Farras Alsawwah, الحدث التوراتي والشرق الأدنى القديم ) ,intended as a thoroughly refutation to the book ...

the criticism of the book ,due to the author's ignoring the historical,archaeological input in favor for the linguistic factor ..

unfortunately the book is in Arabic(336 pages) , otherwise I could have quoted extensively from it .....

anyway, hope next posts to translate some outlines from the book..

:wa:

 

[MustafaMc]

So was this other book written as a refutation of the one I referenced? My point in starting this thread was to consider the possibility that our understanding of where the ancient Biblical events occured may not be accurate. The book is based largely on linguistic evidences which can be presumed to be circumstantial, but can't the evidences be presented as a point of discussion to consider alternative views of history with the intention of getting closer to a true understanding?

 

[جوري]

repeat post please remove

 

[جوري]

isn't it amazing how the first thing I find about Firas as'sawah is this:
[h=3]فراس السواح - الأوان من أجل ثقافة علمانية عقلانية[/h]
roughly translates to: Firras As-Sawah- Time for a secular humanistic philosophy? Isn't that exactly how you refer to yourself as well but in Arabic so that the members are fooled by your purpose here?

 

[جوري]

removed the article that this comment was in reference too pls. delete post

 

[Ali_008]

Bacca is Mecca?

Yep. Makkah was known as Bakkah earlier. Even in the Qur'an, at places, Makkah has been referred to a Bakkah.

And Madinah was called Yathrib. No reference in the Qur'an though.

EDIT: Yathrib is, in fact, mentioned in the Qur'an as posted by Sis Insaanah below. I don't know how that skipped my mind. :heated:

 

[Insaanah]

And Madinah was called Yathrib. No reference in the Qur'an though.

وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُم مِّنَ الاٌّعْرَابِ مُنَـفِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُواْ عَلَى النَّفَاقِ لاَ تَعْلَمُهُمْ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ سَنُعَذِّبُهُم مَّرَّتَيْنِ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَى عَذَابٍ عَظِيمٍ

Muhsin Khan
And among the bedouins round about you, some are hypocrites, and so are some among the people of Al-Madinah, they exaggerate and persist in hypocrisy, you (O Muhammad SAW) know them not, We know them. We shall punish them twice, and thereafter they shall be brought back to a great (horrible) torment. (9:101)

وَإِذْ قَالَت طَّآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُمْ يأَهْلَ يَثْرِبَ لاَ مُقَامَ لَكُمْ فَارْجِعُواْ وَيَسْتَأْذِنُ فَرِيقٌ مِّنْهُمُالنَّبِىَّ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّ بُيُوتَنَا عَوْرَةٌ وَمَا هِىَ بِعَوْرَةٍ إِن يُرِيدُونَ إِلاَّ فِرَاراً

Pickthall
And when a party of them said: O folk of Yathrib! There is no stand (possible) for you, therefor turn back. And certain of them (even) sought permission of the Prophet, saying: Our homes lie open (to the enemy). And they lay not open. They but wished to flee. (33:13)

 

[جوري]

One of the amazing things about the language of the Quran that many people don't pay attention and take for granted is the kind of audience it addresses with things that are known to them that would not be known otherwise to an Arabic prophet. For instance when it was said to the mother of Moses (PBUH):
[FONT=Verdana,arial]Al-Qasas (The Narration)[28:7] [RECITE]

[top] [next match]​

Waawhayna ila ommi moosa an ardiAAeehi faitha khifti AAalayhi faalqeehi fee alyammi wala takhafee wala tahzanee inna raddoohu ilayki wajaAAiloohu mina almursaleena​

28:7 So We sent this inspiration to the mother of Moses: "Suckle (thy child), but when thou hast fears about him, cast him into the river, but fear not nor grieve: for We shall restore him to thee, and We shall make him one of Our apostles."

the word 'yaam' isn't an Arabic word. It is certainly not the Arabic word for river. You can see that since the story in many ways is teaching Muslims, but addressing the Jews that it would be said in words that they'd reason and discern.

truly its transcendence & linguistic miracles will never cease!
​

[/FONT]

 

[Abz2000]

The author's take on Jerusalem being somewhere else doesn't add up,
Masjid al aqsa, The dome of the rock, the city of dawud (as), the continued archaeological discoveries of encrypted text and other stuff, the knight Templars digs, the burial of occult texts in the city of David etc,
Are all I the location where al aqsa is situated,
Plus all the historical records and the generations of Muslims (and converts from judaism and christianity that have descended and resided in the region for millennia, it doesn't seem like such a big and important place can just disappear and no one know about or see it happen.
Allah knows best

 

[YusufNoor]

Salaams to Mustafa and Purest,

i saw this posted the other day, but the book looks a bit pricey. i'm curious though, i'm totally influenced by Richard Elliott Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible?,
http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353
in a nutshell, his working theory is that Jeremiah and Baruch compiled the Torah [J&E]except for Deuteronomy, which they wrote [and are in fact the D source]. the team also wrote Joshua, Samuel and Kings. Ezra was the final redactor also fusing, but not authoring, the P [priestly elements] to the story.
does the author deal with the documentary hypothesis at all?

also, Arabia has been previously named as the site of Sinai:

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm

http://www.squidoo.com/redseacrossing

http://www.squidoo.com/theexodus

is this dealt with in the book?

:wa:

 

[Insaanah]

:wa:

It might be better to address one's salaams to all Muslims in the thread, and then address the point you're making to whoever you wish.

 

[جوري]

wa3lyka asalaam akh Yusufnoor,

It is good to see you back al7mdullilah.. was wondering where the old crowd went..
I haven't read either book just snippets. My understanding is that Everything is that it is quite possible and I'll tell you why. Ibrahim PBUH ancestry is originally from Yemen as its inhabitants took two routes to travel. Ibrahim PBUH ancestry to moved to Iraq and that's where he was born, then he traveled from there and we're all quite familiar with his settlements if we use the Quran itself as an historical source. Traveling was the norm for trade etc. and wherever there was water people settled.
I just wanted to have a look at the so-called refutation since of late many things have become manifest to cast some doubt over the content shared by Al-Manar.

 

[Al-manar]

So was this other book written as a refutation of the one I referenced?

exactly , actually after the publication of that book, lots of writers(Muslims,Christians,atheists) published refutations to his theory ,and that book I have is just one of them...

My point in starting this thread was to consider the possibility that our understanding of where the ancient Biblical events occured may not be accurate.

that is a valid,welcomed thing.... but I think the theory of the book is not to be taken seriously .....

did you read what he said about the exodus? about Egypt ? etc....

roughly translates to: Firras As-Sawah- Time for a secular humanistic philosophy? Isn't that exactly how you refer to yourself as well but in Arabic so that the members are fooled by your purpose here?

is that for me?!!!! I referred to myself as a secular humanistic philosopher?

 

[جوري]

is that for me?!!!! I referred to myself as a secular humanistic philosopher?

what does 3aqlani wa mo3tadil mean in your book?

 

[Al-manar]

what does 3aqlani wa mo3tadil mean in your book?

open http://translate.google.com.eg/?hl=en&tab=wT#ar|en|

copy and paste

مسلم عقلانى ومعتدل

click translate

I will add وافتخر

which means "I'm proud of it"

 

[جوري]

open http://translate.google.com.eg/?hl=en&tab=wT#ar|en|

copy and paste

مسلم عقلانى ومعتدل

click translate

I already speak Arabic I wanted your own words.. because a man who is a self professed 3ilmani and whose views you openly admire or at least bring into the scene as authoritative echos your personal beliefs in many ways.. so I am rather curious as to your intentions and what it is that you consider to be 3aql wa i3tidal in said context?

 

[MustafaMc]

Wa alaikum assalaum to those who believe in Allah and accept Muhammad (saaws) as His Messenger.

I have only begun reading the book. An interesting point the author made is that ancient Hebrew was written with consonants (e.g. YHWH) only like Arabic. Hebrew was not used for common communication for almost 1,000 years and he says that the language was reconstructed by the Masoretes between 500-800 A.D. by adding vowels for vocalization. (We can only imagine the difficulties we would have today if the Quran was left without vowel marks.) The author claims that errors were made in reconstructing the language and that going back to the original texts revealed patterns in commonality between these texts and Arabian place names.