The creation??

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ricardo_sousa said:
a simple question of "who created God?" it is not explained.
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The question is simple but wrong also.Maybe you can ask the pagans who created their Gods because some of them are created by some other Gods but it doesntapply to the Islamic God beliefe.If Allah was in need of to be created-like us-he would not be the God the One.

The answer is no one.
 
I have already explain my views on this subject. But as a final statement: God don´t exist, it is a human creation. And when someone says "God exist because we can´t have come from nothing", so "we" can´t come from nothing, but God can? who have born first? the egg or the chicken? But in the end is all about you want to belief, disbelief or just don´t care(my position).
 
Well what your saying contradicts the atheist science; So we cannot come from nothing, but the universe could?

Your doubt is equal to saying; How could ....... come from nothing? FOR YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT GOD IS!

Nothing = nonexisting, the nonexisting is an illusion created by man, for in fact everything of what we know of exists, there is no nonexisting object!
 
This question "who created God?" might sound logical if one believes that God is a physical entity made up of matter. Obvioiusly God is not matter, He is Spirit, and exists outside time and space. Another way to say it is that God created the beginning and will create the end. We as human beings live in a universe of time, space, matter, hydrogen, atoms, etc....God lives outside of these things as they are part of His creation.
 
ricardo_sousa said:
I have already explain my views on this subject. But as a final statement: God don´t exist, it is a human creation. And when someone says "God exist because we can´t have come from nothing", so "we" can´t come from nothing, but God can? who have born first? the egg or the chicken? But in the end is all about you want to belief, disbelief or just don´t care(my position).
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True!

At the end of the day your belief gets you through your day, and my belief in a God gets me through mine.

God Bless :D
 
ricardo_sousa said:
I have already explain my views on this subject. But as a final statement: God don´t exist, it is a human creation. And when someone says "God exist because we can´t have come from nothing", so "we" can´t come from nothing, but God can? who have born first? the egg or the chicken? But in the end is all about you want to belief, disbelief or just don´t care(my position).
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How could you say that God is a human creation? Maybe you are referring to the idols that you can see inside the chapels and churches..LOL! There are questions that really no one can answer. Example, there is a word "Die" and i guess you believe that you will die. Isn't it? The question is, do you know or can anybody tell you the date, time and place when it comes to you?
 
Keltoi said:
This question "who created God?" might sound logical if one believes that God is a physical entity made up of matter. Obvioiusly God is not matter, He is Spirit, and exists outside time and space. Another way to say it is that God created the beginning and will create the end. We as human beings live in a universe of time, space, matter, hydrogen, atoms, etc....God lives outside of these things as they are part of His creation.
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Hi Keltoi,

I agree with you but just want to add that God lives outside as well as inside our universe because He is omnipresent. Although he is present everywhere, but His existence can not be scientifically observed because He is not subjected to the natural laws. Everything what we know is what we have observed how things behave while they are obeying the natural laws. That is why we can't even observe angels and jinns because the laws of their nature are different from ours. Yes, like you said, the question "who created God?" is illogical because God is not enclosed in time and space (but I don't say "outside of time and space").
 
Yerpon said:
Yes, like you said, the question "who created God?" is illogical because God is not enclosed in time and space (but I don't say "outside of time and space").
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A logical and coherent question does not become illogical or incoherent according to the answer given to it.

What exactly does "not enclosed in time and space" (which isn't much better than "outside of time and space") actually mean? If/when we ever sort out what it actually means, then maybe we could start on "can anything be either?" The problem is not whether the question is logical and coherent but whether the answer is!
 
Trumble said:
A logical and coherent question does not become illogical or incoherent according to the answer given to it.

What exactly does "not enclosed in time and space" (which isn't much better than "outside of time and space") actually mean? If/when we ever sort out what it actually means, then maybe we could start on "can anything be either?" The problem is not whether the question is logical and coherent but whether the answer is!
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What I meant was that God exists "outside"(for lack of a better term) the physical restraints that exist in the natural universe. The whole question about who "created" God is using the logical and rational understanding of matter, time, and space, known to modern science. If God created Jupiter, who created God? That is the line of reasoning I'm referring to. That line of questioning insists that God is something that needed to be "created", just as Jupiter. As a person of faith, I don't find that question to be particularly coherent from the standpoint of my understanding of God. Perhaps my statement is just as incoherent, but its the best I can come up with right now. :D
 
You can't even ask that question...god came? God was always there, and ricardo I understand what you mean about there is no answer...but some things are to be remained with god and god only. If EVERYTHING was explained to us, and EVERYONE knew wether or not god existed, then I HIGHLY doubt there would be any non-belivers, [the only, being mentally challenged .] And if everyone is a believer than there is no point of punishment, and if there is no punishment whats the point of life? You live to die...
Allah wants to give the choice to his creation, though he already knows what is going to happen, there is always the choice that man makes, and that choice is what will eventualy give you the label of a believer or a non-believer.


The creator was always, is always, will be always. God is infinite. Our human minds are not even close to being smart enough to figure the logic of god. We create a couple of computers, go to the moon, send a robot to mars and suddenly we think we know everything.

Allah says in the quran, Chapter 2 verses 6-7: “As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them Whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.” Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).”

Peace be with you all
Omari
 
God is unfathomable, so how can we even begin to explain. No point going on as we can discuss it till the cows come home, yet get nowhere!
 
outsude space & time in part means that the physical laws of the universe don't apply to him. Thus the questions of who created him, or when did he show up cannot actually be contemplated in this context since physics does not affect god in the first place, oh and yes he is omnipresent but that does not mean he is part of our world, his will is though, so is his knowledge of everything about the universe. I hope that helped?
 
Trumble said:
A logical and coherent question does not become illogical or incoherent according to the answer given to it.
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I too can ask you many illogical questions eg. when did you die yesterday? Do you consider it a logical question?
 
Yerpon said:
I too can ask you many illogical questions eg. when did you die yesterday? Do you consider it a logical question?
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That would depend on context (it is you who believes in Paradise, not me!) but in general usage and according to general understanding that question is not 'logical' (coherent is the better word, here), no.

However, the question "who created God?" is both coherent and logical. "Nobody created God", or "God was not created" or are both reasonable, coherent answers, but neither answer can somehow change the question into an illogical or incoherent one.
 
Trumble said:
However, the question "who created God?" is both coherent and logical. "Nobody created God", or "God was not created" or are both reasonable, coherent answers, but neither answer can somehow change the question into an illogical or incoherent one.
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First of all note that we only know how things behave in this universe, so we don't know how things behave in the heavens. Eg. there can't be a square circle in this universe, but we can't prove there can't be a square cirle in the heavens. So whatever is in the heavens, and how they behave may seem completely illogical to us.

Therefore the question "who created God?" is illogical because there was no instant in time when He was created by anyone living in the universe.

Your answers "nobody created God" and "God was not created" are equally illogical. However its logical to say "nobody in the universe created God" or "God was never created in the universe", and unfortunately we don't have the power to think beyond that. Whatever you can know about the heavens is only through the revelation and faith. God gave you free will and ofcourse you are free to believe/disbelieve but He told you about the paradise/hell too!
 
Yerpon said:
Therefore the question "who created God?" is illogical because there was no instant in time when He was created by anyone living in the universe.
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No. "There was no instant in time when He was created by anyone living in the universe" is a statement that answers the question. It is a logical and coherent reply to a logical and coherent question. Your own "nobody in the universe created God" or "God was never created in the universe" would have served just as well as 'my' answers, which were purely illustrative. The point is that the question is logical and coherent regardless of the answer given to it!

I think you are having trouble in that you are effectively defining 'logical' as something you believe, or something necessary for something you believe, and 'illogical' as something you don't believe or something inconsistent with your belief. That is not what logic is... beliefs do not determine whether something is logical or not, only whether the answer produced by application of logic happens to be (subjectively) true or not.
 
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