The Qur'an never altered?

[ahsan28]

S u N N I Muslim, that interesting.

If you cannot answer any of my other questions in a rational fashion, please do try this one. Did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ever say he was a Sunni muslim, Where is it in the quran mention of S U N N I muslims....

I call myself Muslim, Nothing more, why do you call yourself a S U N N I muslim...

The term sunni refers to Ahl e Sunnah Wal Jama'ah (people of sunnah and congregation). The reason distinction was made is because of the heretical claims that emerged from time to time.

According to Imam al-Shafi'i (may Allah be pleased with him):-

"He who holds what the Muslim community (Jama'ah) holds shall be regarded as following the community, and he who holds differently shall be regarded as opposing the community he was ordered to follow. So the error comes from separation; but in the community as a whole there is no error concerning the meaning of the Qur'an, the Sunnah, and analogy (qiyas)."

Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: "Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah's hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell." (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) reported the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"One who found in his Amir (the ruler of the true Islamic state; which is absent today) something which he disliked should hold his patience, for one who separated from the main body of the Muslims even to the extent of a handspan and then he died, would die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyya." (Sahih Muslim, 3/4559; English ed'n & Sahih al-Bukhari, 9/257).

Imam's Ahmad and Abu Dawood (Allah's mercy be upon them) said that Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as saying:

"He who separates from the main body (of the Ummah) by even a hand's breadth from the Community he throws off Islam from his neck." (Mishkat-ul-Masabih, 1/185 & Sunan Abu Dawood, 3/4740).

'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported that on one occasion Allah's Messenger (Peace and blessings be upon him) stood up among them and said, "Whoever among you desires the centre of paradise should keep close to the Jama'ah for the Devil closely accompanies the solitary individual and is more distant from two." (Collected by Imam Tirmidhi)

Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that, "Two are better than one, and three better than two; so stick to the Jama'ah for verily Allah, Most Great and Glorious, will only unite my nation on guidance."

 

[soloqi]

I am not seeing any emotionality here, I think we've all been a very matter of fact.
A practicing sunni Muslim is the best judge of what a Muslim is, on authority of their collective knowledge of Islam. I have taken the liberty to point you out. I AM judging you as a non-Muslim based on what you have written here you are not merely swerving on matters of Islam you are down right outside its bounds.. no emotionality here, very matter of fact, I reference you to my earlier analogy of course!

all the best

Its strange how Gossamer hsa gone all quiet all a sudden, evading my question about If the Prophet called himself a S U N N I muslim, and where in the Quran it mentions Sunni Muslims....

Tony I see that you dont like reading things you dont agree on, and not welcome opiinons that differ from yours, I see you want to be closeminded in certain things.

I will admit my view are not those heard by mainstream muslims, I have been around al mu harjaroon, hiz bullah,wa habi's, and S u nni muslims and well found many muslims blind followers, who do things without questionoing things. Simply because their imam told them, or their parents told them.
With such divides in islam it is very hard to seek the truth, which is all i want to do. God gave us a brain to use it, and somany people dont exersise that muscle, they would rather watch television and have the 9-5 job and mortgage.

I was not in the country at the time but a friend had to go hospital, and she asked her muslim friend to go with her, she refused on the grounds she had to do prayers.
Now that may be to some a good thing, but personally speaking i would rather be at somebodies side in hospital, rather than go to a mosque to pray.
To me that is not what Islam is about.

Thats just one of many examples. But i am here simply to get clarification on Islam nothing more.

Peace

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Which Muslim told you that the Quran has not been preserved?

Moreover that friend who refused to go to the hospital is ridiculous. They could have just prayed at the hospital. Allah would surely understand. If you want clarification, thats cool. Wahabbiis and their ilk are not mainstream Islam.

We are here to give you clarification brother but in the future word your posts more clearly to show that you are asking a question and not attacking Islam.

Other than that lets start again. Would you like insight into any other parts of Islam?

 

[جوري]

Its strange how Gossamer hsa gone all quiet all a sudden, evading my question about If the Prophet called himself a S U N N I muslim, and where in the Quran it mentions Sunni Muslims....

I am quiet because I have already given you an answer and have better things to do with my time than waste it on vain discourse on someone who has no interest in reading but has a volatile reaction when his deviancy is pointed out. I have quoted you from the Quran the very word sunna given you dictionary definition and where we are to follow it..

[Allah commands us in the Qur'an:] Obey Allah and obey the Prophet (5:92), where we are told that just as Allah's orders in the Qur'an are worthy of obedience, so are the interpretations and applications of Allah's orders by the Prophet equally binding on the Muslim Community. In fact, Allah's orders and the orders of the Prophet based on them are essentially one, for: Whoever obeys the Prophet, he has obeyed Allah (4:80).
​

I am not sure how many times must I explain it?
Sunna = traidition of the prophet (see the dictionary definition on prior page)

Read the Quran and familiarize yourself with the basic tenets of Islam before you get too confident in what you are saying.. It isn't weakness as you perceive simply loss of interest!

all the best

 

[ahsan28]

With such divides in islam it is very hard to seek the truth, which is all i want to do. Peace

So?

Have you read this hadith?

"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).' And in another version of this Hadith the Prophet (Peace be upon him) goes onto say that the saved sect, "...Are those who follow my and my Sahaba's path" (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)


Which is the main body of the Muslims??????

 

[soloqi]

I am not seeing any emotionality here, I think we've all been a very matter of fact.
A practicing sunni Muslim is the best judge of what a Muslim is, on authority of their collective knowledge of Islam. I have taken the liberty to point you out. I AM judging you as a non-Muslim based on what you have written here you are not merely swerving on matters of Islam you are down right outside its bounds.. no emotionality here, very matter of fact, I reference you to my earlier analogy of course!

all the best

From what you said about S u n n i muslims, I interpreted that as a sect, After the prophets death, thats when the division began.
So all we need is a Caliph to do a censous, and find which is the Majority. Islam differs from Arabia, and if wa habi is not the majority why do they have stewardship of mecca, should it not be the majority rules.

There is too much division, and because we are too busy fighing each other what was once called the Islamic world is in ruins.

Can we not accept all accept that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad was the last prophet. And sort our house in order.

But from members of this forum which one is it...

 

[AntiKarateKid]

From what you said about S u n n i muslims, I interpreted that as a sect, After the prophets death, thats when the division began.
So all we need is a Caliph to do a censous, and find which is the Majority. Islam differs from Arabia, and if wa habi is not the majority why do they have stewardship of mecca, should it not be the majority rules.

There is too much division, and because we are too busy fighing each other what was once called the Islamic world is in ruins.

Can we not accept all accept that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad was the last prophet. And sort our house in order.

But from members of this forum which one is it...

I agree. We are just Muslims and need to get together again.

 

[جوري]

From what you said about S u n n i muslims, I interpreted that as a sect, After the prophets death, thats when the division began.

You interpreted it as such because you are ill read on basic Islamic tenets. Sunna means traditional again see previous page with dictionary definition.

So all we need is a Caliph to do a censous, and find which is the Majority. Islam differs from Arabia, and if wa habi is not the majority why do they have stewardship of mecca, should it not be the majority rules.

Again, your understanding of the terminology is flawed.. I guarantee you don't even know who Ibn abdel wahab is. and I quote a great scholar.

I am certainly not a w****i, and do not know of any scholar even in Saudi Arabia who calls himself a w****i. There is no sect in Islam called W*****sm. I did read some of Ibn Abdel Wahab’s works and I did write about him, but I never invited people to follow him, or any particular scholar or leader. I have great respect for him as one of our outstanding scholars.
​

May I suggest you familiarize yourself the difference between scholarship & factions?
​

There is too much division, and because we are too busy fighing each other what was once called the Islamic world is in ruins.

Actually 85-90% of Muslims are Sunni
the Sunni (85%) and Shi'a (15%).
shia literally means faction sunni means traditional!

Can we not accept all accept that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad was the last prophet. And sort our house in order.

We do, it seems that you don't however!

But from members of this forum which one is it...

Isn't it obvious? let me spell it out.. we are traidtional Muslims. The jama3a!

 

[soloqi]

Where as some may call themselves traditional muslims, I would like to keep it simply and to the point.
And i have heard of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab, I have heard a hadith that went something like this...The life of one muslim is more important than the Ka'ba

 

[جوري]

Where as some may call themselves traditional muslims, I would like to keep it simply and to the point.
And i have heard of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab, I have heard a hadith that went something like this...The life of one muslim is more important than the Ka'ba

It isn't simple and to the point when one is a deviant A hmadi or a ba hai, or a quran only or any other shiite faction. Such folks are not Muslims and they are not entitled to the rights of Muslims as per ISlam for instance, making pilgrimage.

Ibn Abdul wahab, didn't write ahadith, he was a revivalist of the old traditions.

If you are a new convert and truly have a desire to learn Islam, you need to learn it from a proper source.. I don't know who is teaching you what, but your beliefs aren't acceptable by main stream Muslims -- I hope you weren't indoctrinated into some NOI or Quran only or whatever else out there.. you have to learn proper islam as to not lead yourself and others astray..

Anyhow, I have contributed all I desire to impart on this topic, and hope you'll heed the advise given you here if this religion is of interest to you.

all the best!

 

[soloqi]

The most indoctrinated people are the ones that think that they are not indoctrinated.
I learn more from the help of others and the intelligence i was endowed with by Allah.
Beats being a blind follower, which i come across alot of thses days.

 

[جوري]

The most indoctrinated people are the ones that think that they are not indoctrinated.
I learn more from the help of others and the intelligence i was endowed with by Allah.
Beats being a blind follower, which i come across alot of thses days.

I am glad you are coming to your senses..

all the best

 

[BlackMamba]

After reading some of solquis posts, it seems that you have some very strange blasphemous beliefs. If you claim to me a believer, I won't call you otherwise as that would be a big sin on myself. However, you really need to look at what you are saying. The Quran is protected by Allah, it cannot be changed or altered and this is because of the simple fact that Allah says so in the Quran.
Surah Al-Hijr
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (15:9)

Just based on that ayah, no Muslim can believe that the Quran was altered. NO Way!!! It is the KalamAllah, to say it was altered by humans is saying it is not the Kalamallah. You can't do that if you are Muslim.



And some one was inquiring about shias. Well this was written by Mufti Desai from askimam.org and he concludes that shias are not Muslim.

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

UNBRIDGEABLE DIVIDE
-----------------------------
The protracted contrariety between Islam and Shiaism is but a clear reflection of fundamental differences between the two. The only common denominator between Islam and Shiaism is the Islamic Kalima. The rest of Shiaism has very little in common with mainstream Islam. The unbridgeable divide between the two is entrenched in some of the core fundamentals of this sect, such as:

* THE TWELVE IMAMS

Imamate is a divine station like Nabuwwat. This implies that Sunnis, who do not believe in Imamate, are unbelievers. According to their beliefs, Allah had chosen twelve men to success Nabi (SallALLAHo Alayhi Wasallam). The Twelfth Imam however disappeared at the age of five. He is believed to be the awaited Mahdi.

* THE STATUS OF THE IMAMS

The Imams possess more knowledge than the Ambiya (a.s). They are superior to the Ambiya and the entire creation. The Imams can bring the dead back to life. No knowledge of the heavens and the earth is hidden from them.

* THE INTERPOLATION OF THE NOBLE QURAN

The Quran is incomplete and distorted in its present form. This tenet had been explicitly propounded by the classical scholars of Shiaism, but frugally denied by the contemporary scholars.

* VILIFICATION AND APOSTASY OF THE SAHABAH (R.A)

The Sahabah were guilty of willfully distorting and corrupting the Deen of Muhammad (SallALLAHo Alayhi Wasallam). They turned renegade after the demise of Nabi (SallALLAHo Alayhi Wasallam) except the immediate household of Nabi (SallALLAHo Alayhi Wasallam).

* THE PERMISSIBILITY OF MUT’A

* VIRTUES OF TAQIYA

Islam and Shiaism are two parallel streams of thought that can never converge. They are as distinct from each other, as is Islam to the Ahl-e-Kitaab. To ignore these differences is to ignore the stark reality.

The often repeated hallowed call for "Muslim Unity" simply serves as a smokescreen, behind which SHIA missionaries penetrate Muslim societies. Any attempt to resist this imposition is branded as "divisive". Would it be divisive to protect Islam from a sect that inherently debases the Quran, the Ambiya and the Sahabah? Unity can only be forged on the basis of Aqeedah (belief). To label these differences as ‘hair splitting issues’ is to undermine the sanctity of the Quran, the Ambiya and the Sahabah unity at the cost of the Quran is tantamount to blasphemy.

The constitution of our country guarantees religious freedom. The SHIAs therefore have the right to propagate their beliefs. However, they need to come out of the closet and do so under the banner of Shiaism.

 

[Ramadhan]

A Muslim must accept that Al Qur'an is the words of Allah, and as Allah has stated clearly in the Qur'an that Allah Himself will preserve it, then a muslim must also without a shadow of a doubt accept that Al Qur'an is not altered.
This is also has been supported by the numerous facts that the Qur'an printed todays is exactly the same as that recited by Rasulullah and compiled during the time of the Shahabah.

From this thread it is also clear that soloqi is here not for the discussion. I don't know what his motive is, but it is obviously not a good one.

 

[Tony]

Maybe hes a n atheist returned in the guise of something even more peculiar