Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Amadeus85]

Now is a good time to have the input of any of our Jewish members. I do not want to attempt to speak for any Jewish Members, but it seems to me this is an issue the Jews have with us and not an issue among Muslims.

Another set of questions.

Do muslims believe that all ancient prophets were israelis?
If so, why God sudennly changed his way and chose an Arab as next prophet?

 

[جوري]

the term Jew, or yehudi (yahood) is a derivative of houda, man itaba3 alhouda, or called back to houda which means "right guidance" literally when Moses called them to the path of guidance! accordance to the roots of the words

Israel (meaning Jacob) a term that came about because he liked to walk with God or toward God (yisra bel'lyel)

(hebrew) from 3ibry (3abereen) a term given to those who crossed the sinai Peninsula..
so when you say 3aber aw 3abar or 3abereen means they who have crossed..

Hope that explains it...

Juda was the toungest son of Jacob, and thus early Jews couldn't be called Jews after him.. if anything they should have been called 'abrahamites' don't you think?

peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

Except that Judah wasn't the youngest son of Israel (nor was he the oldest), Benjamin was.

My understanding is that after the "sons" (read that descendant tribes) of Israel settled in Canaan that they divided the land amongst them, each having certain territory (save the Levites who were placed in charge of the sacrificial system as priests). During this time they were not called Jews, but Israelites. The term Jew developed during their captivity in Babylon. This because by the time of that event, Benjamin had been absorbed into Judah and the other tribes had been assimilated by Assyrians and other conquering groups, with only Judah (and Benjamin) remaining as keepers of the original covenant. Hence when they were taken captive to a foreign land, they were known not by the national name of Israel, but only the tribal name of Judah.


However, I am not a Jew, and I admit your knowledge of these languages is better than mine. Again, it would be good to have the input of some Jews on this.

 

[جوري]

Except that Judah wasn't the youngest son of Israel (nor was he the oldest), Benjamin was.

My understanding is that after the "sons" (read that descendant tribes) of Israel settled in Canaan that they divided the land amongst them, each having certain territory (save the Levites who were placed in charge of the sacrificial system as priests). During this time they were not called Jews, but Israelites. The term Jew developed during their captivity in Babylon. This because by the time of that event, Benjamin had been absorbed into Judah and the other tribes had been assimilated by Assyrians and other conquering groups, with only Judah (and Benjamin) remaining as keepers of the original covenant. Hence when they were taken captive to a foreign land, they were known not by the national name of Israel, but only the tribal name of Judah.


However, I am not a Jew, and I admit your knowledge of these languages is better than mine. Again, it would be good to have the input of some Jews on this.

I stand corrected indeed.. ben yameen was the youngest.. I will tell you this much, according to us not the Jews.. yahoudi comes from houda after having been called to guidance.. Jews might have another completely unrelated meaning who knows.. but when we think of 'people of the book' we don't think Jesussans, Mosesans, abrahmites, we think monotheists (Muslims)

peace

 

[Eeman]

What is the benefit in music? To me it is just a waste of time, and with music, most of the time there comes too many bad side effects with it.

:zip::zip::zip::zip: Brother you get side effects from music????

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

.. I accept that it is reasonable to ask a living person that one holds in higher esteem to pray to Allah for you..

Not only ' ask a living person that one holds in higher esteem ' , normally I ask other Muslims to offer dua/ supplication .

G S , take this example. My dad is sick now

I asked my friends ( including online forum participants ) & relatives to pray for dad's recovery.

I hope , after their daily prayers , they will ask God Almighty to cure my dad. It's not the same as pray to saints .

 

[MustafaMc]

Not only ' ask a living person that one holds in higher esteem ' , normally I ask other Muslims to offer dua/ supplication .

You are correct.

I hope , after their daily prayers , they will ask God Almighty to cure my dad. It's not the same as pray to saints .

Yes, asking deceased saints to pray for us is different and as you stated (according to some Catholic sites I have visited) they actually do pray to these saints. In Islam, prayer is a form of worship to the one being prayed to.

http://www.ourcatholicprayers.com/prayers-to-saints.html
Some people ask “why say prayers to saints? Shouldn’t all our prayers be to God?” Praying to the saints is praying to God, in a fundamental way. We're praying to those who can ask God to help us in our various needs in accordance with His will....

The authors of the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium (“light of the nations”) noted that it was important that we “suppliantly invoke" the saints and "have recourse to their prayers, their power and help in obtaining benefits from God through His Son, Jesus Christ, who is our Redeemer and Saviour."

For example, in one well known prayer to St. Joseph we ask him to “assist me by your powerful intercession and obtain for me from your divine Son all spiritual blessings through Jesus Christ, Our Lord.”(Interesting how Catholics refer to Jesus (as) as Joseph's son.)

Do you ever feel some days like you need all the help you can get? You can ask one of many patron saints for their assistance. They’ve been “put in charge” of various causes, occupations, (and even countries!), though popular traditions or by the Church. These saints are considered our protectors as well as our intercessors. According to Islam this is clearly shirk to ask a dead person to help and protect us. From al-Fatiha Iyyaka na'abudu wa iyyaka nasta'een - You alone we worship, from You alone we seek help.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/peace;



Not only ' ask a living person that one holds in higher esteem ' , normally I ask other Muslims to offer dua/ supplication .

G S , take this example. My dad is sick now

I asked my friends ( including online forum participants ) & relatives to pray for dad's recovery.

I hope , after their daily prayers , they will ask God Almighty to cure my dad. It's not the same as pray to saints .

That's my point, it really is.

My grandmother passed away 15 years ago. But I believe that she is still alive, in heaven.

What makes a person a person is not the body they inhabit. Take a look at a picture of you from 15 years ago. My guess is that you've changed a little bit. Certainly my children have changed in those 15 years. But they are still the same person they were. According to what I have read there is not a cell in your body that is over 3 years of age. Skin cells recycle even faster. So, it isn't the living tissue that determines who we are. That stuff lives, dies, we sluff it off, and yet we continue to live.

Well, one day I will sluff off all of this mortal coil, but I will still continue to live. I am not my body. And it is not in my body that God knows me, or that I will one day be known by others. So, though my grandmother no longer lives in her body, it is only her body that has died, not her. And though I can no longer see and visit with my grandmother because I live in the world limited by a physical body, that she does not does not make her less alive. In fact, in many ways she is more alive than ever before.

So, surely if I could have asked my grandmother to pray for me while she was stuck in her mortal body, now that she lives in an immortal, spiritual body she is no less able to pray for me than she was before. Why then, if I would have asked her before should I not ask her to do so now?

 

[MustafaMc]

My grandmother passed away 15 years ago. But I believe that she is still alive, in heaven.

So, though my grandmother no longer lives in her body, it is only her body that has died, not her. And though I can no longer see and visit with my grandmother because I live in the world limited by a physical body, that she does not does not make her less alive. In fact, in many ways she is more alive than ever before.

So, surely if I could have asked my grandmother to pray for me while she was stuck in her mortal body, now that she lives in an immortal, spiritual body she is no less able to pray for me than she was before. Why then, if I would have asked her before should I not ask her to do so now?

I understand the concept of an immortal soul, but what evidence do you have that those who have passed away (died) are still alive in heaven (or hell) and are able to pray to God for you?

Do Christians believe in a future resurrection from the dead when the soul is reunited with a regenerated physical body? Is there a difference in the state of existence after death but before as compared to after Judgment Day?

 

[Grace Seeker]

I understand the concept of an immortal soul, but what evidence do you have that those who have passed away (died) are still alive in heaven (or hell) and are able to pray to God for you?

From the term "immortal" itself one can infer the concept of still alive and not dead.
Definition of immortal from Merriam-Webster: "exempt from death".

Do Christians believe in a future resurrection from the dead when the soul is reunited with a regenerated physical body? Is there a difference in the state of existence after death but before as compared to after Judgment Day?

Yes, Christians believe in a future bodily resurrection from the dead, but that doesn't mean it is the same body we had when we died. In the very literal sense it could hardly be the same. Not only has our body decayed, but it has become part of the lifecycle of other plants and animals, and then (through consumption of those plants and animals) eventually other people. Hence, over time, the the same particles of matter have probably been shared by many different people. Which body is going to claim that matter in the resurrection?
Answer: it doesn't matter.

A person is not his/her body, a person merely wears a body like an article of clothing. Personally, I'm hoping for one with a 32" waist and a 38" chest. :statisfie

 

[mkh4JC]

I understand the concept of an immortal soul, but what evidence do you have that those who have passed away (died) are still alive in heaven (or hell) and are able to pray to God for you?

I'm fairly sure that there is no mention of being able to pray to dead saints in the Bible and have them intercede for you. The Bible clearly and very carefully mentions the following: 'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.' 1 Timothy 2: 5-6Meaning, that you can't pray to those who have gone before in hopes that they can intercede for you. Even the circumstances involving Saul and the soothsayer in the Old Testament, involved a familiar spirit (or demon) who took on the countenance of Samuel, it wasn't Samuel who appeared to Saul. Praying to dead saints is a very Catholic doctrine.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

My grandmother passed away 15 years ago. But I believe that she is still alive, in heaven.

this question is off topic here . May be , u can reply in questions about Christians thread later . Before the last day , Christians go straight to heaven after death ? A Christian ( in other forum ) told me that it's not allowed to offer prayer for dead . May be , as the dead persons are already in heaven , they don't need our dua ?

Why then, if I would have asked her before should I not ask her to do so now?

In Islam , we are encouraged to offer dua for our dead relatives . We are not allowed to pray to the dead ( who left this earth ) ...it's a major sin ...will lead us to eternal fire

Mustafa, perhaps Muslims in Mississippi don't petition Prophet Muhammad to pray to Allah for you, but apparently some who live where Muslim Woman does actually have that expectation.

---
No, I don't see that this is true. I think there is a misunderstanding as I don't see that Muslim Woman prays to Muhammad. Those who pray to dead people are commiting shirk.

bro Mustafa is right . I don't pray to Prophet Muhammed (p) but to God Almighty --the creator of Muhammed , Jesus ( pbut) & all.

 

[MustafaMc]

this question is off topic here . May be , u can reply in questions about Christians thread later .

I agree with you. If GraceSeeker is interested in the Islamic perspective on this issue, he can pose a question for us to reply to.

 

[Lonely Gal]

what do u mean we're not allow to pray FOR the dead?

 

[Grace Seeker]

I agree with you. If GraceSeeker is interested in the Islamic perspective on this issue, he can pose a question for us to reply to.

I did pose a question, way back in post #788, that's how this present conversation got started. Simply observing that some practices by certain Muslims (like those Muslims who expect that angels offer dua for them or that on the day of judgment Muhammad will plead their case with Allah) and some practices of some Christians (like Catholics who pray "to" saints) don't seem all that different to me. And I was asking (if you go back) how it is that Muslims see them as so significantly different?

The responses pointed to views that it was because Muslims don't pray to dead people. To which I pointed out that those Christians who offer these sorts of prayers don't feel that they are either. Hence, the difference that was alluded to isn't actually there. We've been going round on our understanding of whether people are alive are not. So, my question remains:

Given that when Catholics pray "to" saints (and I've explained they aren't actually praying to them, but asking them to pray for them) how is that different than what Muslims do in expecting angles and even Muhammad to make intercession for them.


Now, one thing I've learned is that not all Muslims agree with the practice of those Muslims who have these expectations. Just like Fedos is an illustration that not all Christians agree with the practice of those Christians who have these expectations. So, again, at least to me, it looks like there is a great deal of similiarity between Muslims views and Christian views regarding what strike me as very similar practices. So, how come on these forums I see Muslims challenging Catholics in their practice (and some acting as if it is all Christiams), but I don't see challenges to those Muslims (identified in this thread in two different posts) who do much the same thing?

Maybe that isn't a fair question to put to those of you responding in this thread who generally don't participate in such accussations.

So, I'll just come back to the original question. Now that you see that Catholics don't see themselves as praying to the dead, but asking a still living person (though living in a different spiritual dimenion) to pray for them, what is the difference? Is it that a Muslim cannot conceive of a person actually being alive following the passing away of their physical body, and so has no context in which to understand that practice by another, is it something else, or is it really that there is no significant difference except that which one has grown accustommed to and does not question about one's own faith community, but does when seen in another?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/peace;
this question is off topic here . May be , u can reply in questions about Christians thread later . Before the last day , Christians go straight to heaven after death ? A Christian ( in other forum ) told me that it's not allowed to offer prayer for dead . May be , as the dead persons are already in heaven , they don't need our dua ?

When I started this thead I didn't make it so that one had to be so careful. If you want to ask a question that you feel is in keeping with the overall discussion, please feel free to do so. I just don't want it to discussion, even debate, that stems from honest questions. I don't want it deteriorate into diatribes or polemics directed at one another.

So, I can answer your question here, or after the other thread gets restored I can try to answer it there. Which ever you feel is best.

 

[Muslim Woman]

what do u mean we're not allow to pray FOR the dead?

If u are asking me ,then I wrote : We are not allowed to pray to the dead .

I also wrote :we are encouraged to offer dua for our dead relatives.

A Christian told me they are not allowed to pray for the dead.



Clear now ? :statisfie

 

[MustafaMc]

I also wrote :we are encouraged to offer dua for our dead relatives.

...if they died as believers. We have the example of Abraham who promised to pray for his unbelieving father and did so after he had died until he was directed by Allah to discontinue. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Muslim Woman]

...if they died as believers.

yes :statisfie

as my all relatives are Muslims , this point did not come in to mind ...thanks for pointing out this imp matter.

We have the example of Abraham who promised to pray for his unbelieving father and did so after he had died until he was directed by Allah to discontinue. Correct me if I am wrong.

don't clearly remember this example now

Prophet Muhammed (p) wanted to pray either for his grand pa or uncle who died as a disbeliever . But Allah told him not to do so.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

So, I can answer your question here, or after the other thread gets restored I can try to answer it there. Which ever you feel is best.

if the other thread takes toooo much time to get restored , then pl. ans here
( if mod allows that )