Things in Islam I am curious about...

One of the general rule of fiqh shariah is that everything that leads to haraam is haraam (if u read much about islaam u should know that)
Music leads to inter mingling of man and woman
e.g music leads to dancing .when u dance with a girl u should touch her and thsi also leads to zinaa/adultery which may lead to baby born without marriage and lead to....... the chain is long .I Hope my explanation is not difficult

:hmm:

how can music lead to baby-born?
Also, it could be your wife --the woman you're dancing with.

Anyway, maybe men in Islam are not immune when they stand near a woman.
 
Originally Posted by Idris
What is the benefit in music? To me it is just a waste of time, and with music, most of the time there comes too many bad side effects with it.



No offense but this is the funniest quote of the week.

Anyway, that's your opinion.

what week your talking about this post by idris was made on 02-13-2007 and now your bringing it.
 
yeah i know but now i'm starting to read this thread.

Edit on request of Grace seeker himself: This thread covers significantly more issue than just music which in has been sufficiently addressed over the last several month; new posters are requested to join the thread in progress on the last page, rather then just repeating what has already been stated numerous times among the many pages of this thread.

focus focus drrrrrrrrr
 
yeah i know but now i'm starting to read this thread.

Then don't derail the current discussion.

The person whom you quoted might not even still participate in this forum anymore, and it is not fair you ridicule his opinion without him being able to answer back.

You are an intelligent person, are you not?
 
.

You are an intelligent person, are you not?

smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-030.gif
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1320997 said:
then you must have read this as well:

[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 15:42] Lo! as for My slaves, thou hast no power over any of them save such of the froward as follow thee,

indeed one Must seek guidance but once you are guided, satan has no power of you!

all the best
[/SIZE]

Indeed, I did read it. But what is the source of that guidance? Isn't it supernatural, coming from Allah? And, doesn't Islam teach that Allah saves who Allah wills toi save and that no one can be saved apart from the will of Allah? So, it seems to me that the whole process begins and ends with Allah, not with one's human will, except as that will is first sought, then guided, and finally sustained and protected by Allah.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1320965 said:
It isn't being super-human to try and live a righteous life..

all the best
I'm rethinking this statement, and wondering if I might have read into something from my own tradition that you didn't mean to imply. So, let me back up and ask (hopefully a little differently) what it means to try and live a righteous life? Is it the teaching of Islam that one can live a righteous life completely unaided? Or, is the guidance/protection of Allah needed to do so, at least to do so successfully?
 
I'm rethinking this statement, and wondering if I might have read into something from my own tradition that you didn't mean to imply. So, let me back up and ask (hopefully a little differently) what it means to try and live a righteous life? Is it the teaching of Islam that one can live a righteous life completely unaided? Or, is the guidance/protection of Allah needed to do so, at least to do so successfully?

No one can do it unaided, its impossible. This is how I think it works; as you work your way up by practising islam as best you can, you get closer and closer to Allah, you build a stronger connection with Him, with that I think Allah guides you more in matters, I think He gives you more frequent signs and reminders to keep yourself straight. Obviously He will not protect you from sinning as that is your own test and choice, but He might protect you from being afflicted by evil or witnesssing it, which might make the trials easier. This is my personal view obviously I'm not certain of Allah's will and I'd rather not speak without knowledge so Allah knows best.
 
but He might protect you from being afflicted by evil or witnessing it, which might make the trials easier..
How can He do that? If we get closer to Him, how will we be able to know what's evil and what's not? Only by reading Qur'an and automatically applying it in our real life?
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1321130 said:
I don't imply anything.. sinners are those who choose sin willingly consciously and freely, I think the verse is quite obvious that satan has no power over the righteous.. so whether or not you implicate prophets in such sins, is your own problem, your bibles are replete with debauchery against God, so it doesn't make much of difference if you implicate the messengers as well. As far as the only living word of God, those who are righteous (messengers or regular folks) satan has no sovereign over them. yes we are all servants of God and his creation, not his children! God doesn't reproduce so you need not put it in quotations, unless you are trying to assert a point to your own person?

I see your point but what I am asking is where is the Qu'ran do we see this doctrine that all prophets are sinless and perhaps you will also show us where a prophet is defined or explain how we can recognise one when we see them?

One final point, you say Satan has no power over the righteous so is every Muslim righteous and does these righteous get automatic access to heaven?
 
I see your point but what I am asking is where is the Qu'ran do we see this doctrine that all prophets are sinless and perhaps you will also show us where a prophet is defined or explain how we can recognise one when we see them?

One final point, you say Satan has no power over the righteous so is every Muslim righteous and does these righteous get automatic access to heaven?

You will recognise a prophet when you see one, it will be hard for you to understand, but prophets were blessed with extreme beauty, such to the extent that some would wear veils eg; prophet yusuf (joseph), the piety of a prophet will show up on their faces through nur (light), their character and mannerisms are beyond the capability of any other human being.

Satan does not have any power in the way he can cause you to sin, he can only whisper in your ear and try and temptate you. Obviously not every muslim is righteous, not all will go to heaven straight away, but will do eventually if they have any debts to pay off in hell.
 
I'm rethinking this statement, and wondering if I might have read into something from my own tradition that you didn't mean to imply. So, let me back up and ask (hopefully a little differently) what it means to try and live a righteous life? Is it the teaching of Islam that one can live a righteous life completely unaided? Or, is the guidance/protection of Allah needed to do so, at least to do so successfully?

Let me rephrase for you.. you can live a perfectly good life, as a Buddhist or an atheist would and be rewarded for it, I don't know what that reward entails.. I am talking about your religious life. It doesn't count when you pray to the wrong God!

3:19] The religion before God is Islam (submission to His Will): nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.

I don't know what you mean by aided or not aided.. certainly it is a two way process, you need to change yourself before God changes!
if you have convinced yourself that you are doing God's bidding then, there are no more questions to be asked. my response is the Muslim response. The religion before God is Islam!
1.png
قُلْ هَلْ نُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِالْأَخْسَرِينَ أَعْمَالًا }
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 18:103] Say: Shall We inform you who will be the greatest losers by their works?[/SIZE] [104] "Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life. While they thought that they were acquiring good by their works? [105] They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any Weight.

all the best!

I see your point but what I am asking is where is the Qu'ran do we see this doctrine that all prophets are sinless and perhaps you will also show us where a prophet is defined or explain how we can recognise one when we see them?

One final point, you say Satan has no power over the righteous so is every Muslim righteous and does these righteous get automatic access to heaven?

Hugo, I'd love to bring it all down to little ity bits to fit with your MO, but even when doing so, you'll still find something as usual to complain about. The Quran is complex and meant to for study, we have Quran classes if you'd like to enroll in lieu of relaying on your orientalists they seem to lead you further astray which I suppose is the christian agenda to begin with.. Perhaps you understand the verses from the correct perspective you wouldn't be asking so many forgive me how should I say this unintelligent questions? I have already quoted you more than ample verses echoing exactly that sentiment, God's chosen people especially those to convey a certain mission are righteous.
There is no ALL or NONE. I don't need to recognize them their judgment doesn't lie with me-- for again if you read the Quran you will come across verses such as this:

74: 31 [SIZE=-1]----None knoweth the hosts of thy Lord save Him. This is naught else than a Reminder unto mortals.[/SIZE]


all the best
 
No one can do it unaided, its impossible. This is how I think it works; as you work your way up by practising islam as best you can, you get closer and closer to Allah, you build a stronger connection with Him, with that I think Allah guides you more in matters, I think He gives you more frequent signs and reminders to keep yourself straight. Obviously He will not protect you from sinning as that is your own test and choice, but He might protect you from being afflicted by evil or witnesssing it, which might make the trials easier. This is my personal view obviously I'm not certain of Allah's will and I'd rather not speak without knowledge so Allah knows best.
That's strikingly close to how I see it as well. Righteousness is not something that we are capable of on our own. God has to provide gudiance and he does so in a number of ways from his own revelatory word (be it the Qur'an or the Bible, respectively) to the living example of other righteous individuals and (in the Christian understanding) the abiding presence of his Holy Spirit. But even with all of this sooner or later each person must make a decision whether they are going to be led by that guidance or not. At any time, any person can choose to turn their back on God and walk away from his guidance or outside of his will. If we do so, the sin is ours. Sin is not something we can blame on God because he didn't keep us from it. So, it seems that in this understanding Islam and Christianity are very similar. Where we differ is our understanding of God's protection of the prophets. It seems that you still are describing a scenario in which though for normal people, as you say: "He will not protect you from sinning as that is your own test and choice." But for prophets it seems that he does. But surely, the prophets have at least an initial choice as to whether to submit to be prophets, and in that case they would have had the same test that all others do. Is there a record in Islam of anyone to whom the call to be a prophet was given and they refused it? Would I be correct that a person would still have the freedom of choice to submit or not submit to such a call from Allah?
 
"He will not protect you from sinning as that is your own test and choice." But for prophets it seems that he does. But surely, the prophets have at least an initial choice as to whether to submit to be prophets, and in that case they would have had the same test that all others do. Is there a record in Islam of anyone to whom the call to be a prophet was given and they refused it? Would I be correct that a person would still have the freedom of choice to submit or not submit to such a call from Allah?

People are asking for verses in the Quran about whether the prophets could sin etc etc

I think we're essentially forgetting what kind of people prophets were, they weren't just any human beings receiving guidence from Allah, they had direct contact with Allah. When you're that close to god your don't even need to believe in god, you just know it as fact. There's no way you can sin when you've seen/spoken to god - think about it - you would have the fear of god inside you every second of your life. Who would be stupid enough to sin and disobey Allah if they were in such a position?. They had the fear of god that no one can have unless they see or speak to god directly. You see us normal humans often forget the might of Allah, we forget His qualities, His power, His vastness, the punishment of hell He has created, forgetting this which can lead us to sin. Prophets were working directly for Allah, I doubt god would ever leave their conscience.

I doubt a prophet would have any choice in becoming one, I think they're like angels in the way that they have a given purpose. But even if they did they wouldn't be stupid enough to disobey god after being commanded by Him directly.
 
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There's no way you can sin when you've seen/spoken to god - think about it -

I am. And if what you say is true, it leads me to ask what is the Islamic understanding of the origin of Ibilis?


The other thing that I see is that you now appear to differentiate between "us normal humans" and the prophets who are "just like angels". Were the prophets not normal humans? And if not, then surely they fit the category of "super-human" (or perhaps "supra-human") after all.
 
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I am. And if what you say is true, it leads me to ask what is the Islamic understanding of the origin of Ibilis?


The other thing that I see is that you now appear to differentiate between "us normal humans" and the prophets who are "just like angels". Were the prophets not normal humans? And if not, then surely they fit the category of "super-human" (or perhaps "supra-human") after all.

I thought about the case of iblis before posting, I still can't understand myself how anyone can disobey Allah even in His presence. Iblis had built up a rank amongst the jinn, I think it was his pride and arrogance that got to him. But anyway prophets weren't that stupid. I said I believe they're like angels in the way they have been commanded a purpose directly by Allah. Superhumans - possibly a word to describe them, they could perform miracles after all couldn't they?
 
You will recognise a prophet when you see one, it will be hard for you to understand, but prophets were blessed with extreme beauty, such to the extent that some would wear veils eg; prophet yusuf (joseph), the piety of a prophet will show up on their faces through nur (light), their character and mannerisms are beyond the capability of any other human being.

I have not heard this before and without wanting to insult Islam this does sound fanciful so could you give us some references as to where we might find this doctrine in the Qu'ran or elsewhere?
 

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