Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Kashnowe]

i love the title of this thread. i find it hard to run out of questions and i am glad that you all are helping me learn.

what does Ibn mean before a name?
why do some people write islaam and others islam?
what does s.a.s. stand for?
where is it stated that one must write 'peace be upon him' after naming a prophet? (i hope you wish peace upon all souls alive and dead but must one really say it to really mean it?)

 

[Kashnowe]

i was reading the first post in the 'signs before the day of judgement thread' and this is one of them

 ?The Last Hour would not come until there issues from the land of the Hejaz (which is in Saudi Arabia) a fire which will illuminate the backs of the camels in Busra?, - and this, perhaps, anticipates a nuclear attack on a Saudi Air Force base in Tabuk, perhaps, which would formally launch Israel into the club of nuclear powers

i find this somewhat interesting due to the plan that was just unfolded for a terror plot in oil fields in saudi arabia. it seems to me that if the plan was accomplished then this prophesy would be pretty dead on............interesting?

 

[جوري]

i love the title of this thread. i find it hard to run out of questions and i am glad that you all are helping me learn.
what does Ibn mean before a name?

ibn means son

why do some people write islaam and others islam?

a matter of preference I suppose?

what does s.a.s. stand for?

S.A.S Salaa Allah 3lyhi was'salam

where is it stated that one must write 'peace be upon him' after naming a prophet?

respect.. having fine manners is mandated upon all Muslims

(i hope you wish peace upon all souls alive and dead but must one really say it to really mean it?)

I don't know.. it depends on the person and the intentions I suppose...

 

[Woodrow]

lets see.....so from what i've read here then muslims believe that Jesus is the savior....maybe not a few thousand years ago but sometime in the future.

Nope, he will never be the savior in terms of forgiving sins. However he will slay the anti-Christ and lead the believers in battle against the evil doers

ok so the quran is written in arabic. and non muslims are not permitted to even touch it. how does this promote the spread of islam?

It has not presented any problem in 1400 years. For 1400 years the Bible was only written in Latin, that did not present any problem to Christianity.

lets say t here is a poor american man married with 4 children who works 2 jobs. he can not take time to learn arabic because his whole day is spent in some way caring for his family. to learn arabic to read the quran would take him years. and he is not permitted to the mosque because he is not muslim. is he just then doomed?

He is permitted to the Masjid and would be very welcomed. I do not know of nor heard of any Masjid which would close it's doors on non-Muslims. It really is amazing as to how reversions take place. When I reverted 2 years ago I did not know a single Muslim in Texas. I did not even suspect there were any Masjids in Texas. Yet, everything just fell into place the minute I said the Shahadah.

that same man could be in any country in the world. and he could find a bible written in his language and he could read it. one of the great things about the bible is that it is translated into hundreds of languages.......and available to all people .

I know you will doubt this, but no 2 translations are the same and do differ from the original.

so in a way i find islam to be very distant and unpersonal. you might feel closeness to the quran because you understand it. but according to what i read here....even if i read an english translation it is basically irrelevant b/c the messages are somehow lost in translation. so is the same for billions of people on this earth right now. and then i read that muslims don't try to teach others and spread islam throughout the world. people are supposed to seek it. that doesn't seem very loving to me.

Islam calls for a closer relationship with Allah(swt) than you would ever dream of. Our entire life becomes a direct communication with Allah(swt) in all of our thoughts deeds and words. Everything we do is communication with Allah(swt) But, we do understand our full dependancy on him and that even our next heart beat is all in accordance with His will.

so mohammed himself wrote the quran right?

Nope, he did not write a single word of it. He was illiterate and could neither read nor write

well to me much of islam relies on the hadith(s?) i think they insult the quran. i thought the quran was all a muslim should rely on. theres much about islam that is in these hadiths that mohammed never wrote down. don't you think if God felt all these rules and traditions in the hadith to be important then he would have just instructed mohammed to put it all in the quran? seems to me all this arguments about the bible being translated are silly when much of what determines how you live as a muslim is based on a hadith which is not even the word of God. its the word of man.

The Ahadith corresponds very Much to what the Christians call the Gospel. Those are eyewitness accounts of what Muhammad did and said for a large part of his life. It is not the word of Allah(swt) the Ahadith are eyewitness accounts. The Qur'an like the Injil is the word of Allah(swt) The Injil was never passed down and just small remnants of it remain. It is no more silly for a Muslim to follow the Ahadith, than it is for a Christian to follow the Gospel. In fact it is less silly because we have the Qur'an to back up the Ahadith.

sorry if my thoguhts here seem scattered. i'm very tired today.

 

[MustafaMc]

lets see.....so from what i've read here then muslims believe that Jesus is the savior....maybe not a few thousand years ago but sometime in the future.

Actually, Messiah (Webster's II "a liberator or deliverer") in the sense of delivering humanity from the tribulation of the Dajjal near the end of time - not in the sense of saving us from our sins.

ok so the quran is written in arabic. and non muslims are not permitted to even touch it. how does this promote the spread of islam?

It has to do with treating the Quran respectfully. A Muslim letting me read his English translation of the Quran 25 years ago led directly to me becoming a Muslim.

but according to what i read here....even if i read an english translation it is basically irrelevant b/c the messages are somehow lost in translation. so is the same for billions of people on this earth right now.

I know only the basics of Arabic and know the meaning of very few words in Arabic. I have 5 translations of the Quran in English. There are some of these translations that render a meaning to a verse that is significantly different from the others, some use phraseology that is difficult to follow and others include so many explanations in parenthesis that I have trouble following the point. I have identified one of these 5 translations that I like to read and I believe that I have gained significant understanding. I have read the Quran 3 times and each time it seems as though it is the first time with additional understanding building on the previous.

and then i read that muslims don't try to teach others and spread islam throughout the world. people are supposed to seek it. that doesn't seem very loving to me.

Quite the contrary, Muslims have a huge responsibility to witness the Truth to unbelievers. I have talked to many people about Islam.

so mohammed himself wrote the quran right?

No, he did not write it. He recited what was revealed to him and others wrote it down and memorized it.

well to me much of islam relies on the hadith(s?) i think they insult the quran. i thought the quran was all a muslim should rely on. theres much about islam that is in these hadiths that mohammed never wrote down. don't you think if God felt all these rules and traditions in the hadith to be important then he would have just instructed mohammed to put it all in the quran?

No, there is absolutely no insult to have the hadith. The Quran is the first source and any hadith that contradicts the Quran is rejected. The hadith were also not written by Muhammad (pbuh). They were narrated by his companions and collectors of hadith discerned among many with strict criteria to know which were authentic.

seems to me all this arguments about the bible being translated are silly when much of what determines how you live as a muslim is based on a hadith which is not even the word of God. its the word of man.

Yes, the hadith are not the Word of God. However, they are very important for teaching us the details of our religion. For example, the Quran tells us to pray, but it does not tell us how. The hadith and the sunnah have been preserved such that Muslims now pray the same way the Prophet Muhammad did 1400 years ago. All Muslims pray basically the same way and they recite pretty much the same things in Arabic.

 

[Kashnowe]

oh i know for a fact that the translations of the bible differ from the originial. who would deny that? you can go into any book store and pick up 5 different versions and prove that easily. doesn't take a rocket scientist.....

yup.

i wonder what God will do with a person who just can't make up their mind about what to believe. what if they die tomorrow, uncertain, just can't seem to grasp any particular faith. heard about christianity, not sure tho, heard about islam, but still uncertain.........................gee the thought of it makes me feel +o(

 

[Kashnowe]

so according to many muslims then you can't possibly understand the quran because you don't know the language. this true?

how come you have only read it 3 times? that seems like not much.

No, there is absolutely no insult to have the hadith. The Quran is the first source and any hadith that contradicts the Quran is rejected. The hadith were also not written by Muhammad (pbuh). They were narrated by his companions and collectors of hadith discerned among many with strict criteria to know which were authentic.

i understand that any hadith that contradicts the quran is rejected (understandably so) but much of hadith is not contradicting anything in the quran but instead adding things that were not necessarily necessary (if they were wouldn't they have been included in the quran, the word of God narrated by mohammed?

Yes, the hadith are not the Word of God. However, they are very important for teaching us the details of our religion. For example, the Quran tells us to pray, but it does not tell us how. The hadith and the sunnah have been preserved such that Muslims now pray the same way the Prophet Muhammad did 1400 years ago. All Muslims pray basically the same way and they recite pretty much the same things in Arabic.

the quran tells u to pray. isn't that good enough. i can take that as enough information that i don't need any hadith to tell me how. maybe God doesn't care how you pray just as long as you only pray to him. isn't that saying that the quran wasn't good enough because it didn't give you enough information? when according to you the quran tells you everything you need to know.

i pray different than anyone else on earth. my prayers are personal between myself and God. i don't need anyone to tell me my prayers are right or wrong or that any dialog i choose with God is unnacceptable.

i mean its nice that you try to keep tradition alive. i am not trying to insult that but to say that it is the only way is what i have a problem with.

 

[noodles]

the quran tells u to pray. isn't that good enough. i can take that as enough information that i don't need any hadith to tell me how. maybe God doesn't care how you pray just as long as you only pray to him. isn't that saying that the quran wasn't good enough because it didn't give you enough information? when according to you the quran tells you everything you need to know.

i pray different than anyone else on earth. my prayers are personal between myself and God. i don't need anyone to tell me my prayers are right or wrong or that any dialog i choose with God is unnacceptable.

i mean its nice that you try to keep tradition alive. i am not trying to insult that but to say that it is the only way is what i have a problem with.

Quite the contrary, the Quran told us to pray and through the Sunnah we discern 'How' to pray. If you didn't accept the sunnah, you can then go to any church, synagogue, temple and start praying to any deity there.

Or you can make up your own form of prayer.

If you look at it through a different perspective, you may understand that when you see a person pray like a muslim does, a bell rings in your head that he/she is a muslim. If everyone was left to make their own kind of rituals then how would you differentiate the muslim from a non-muslim?

I agree on the point that the prayer is a personal time between you and your lord, but any external beings watching you must be able to discern which religion you belong to.

May allah forgive me if I have said anything out of order

 

[Kashnowe]

quite the contrary how so? the quran tells you to pray it doesn't say 'oh by the way in a few hundred years i will tell you how to pray'.

tradition is tradition.........all cultures hold their traditions dear. traditions are not necessarily necessity.


why must an outsider differentiate between a muslim and a non muslim? what is the purpose in that?

 

[noodles]

quite the contrary how so? the quran tells you to pray it doesn't say 'oh by the way in a few hundred years i will tell you how to pray'.

tradition is tradition.........all cultures hold their traditions dear. traditions are not necessarily necessity.


why must an outsider differentiate between a muslim and a non muslim? what is the purpose in that?

You're getting something confused here.

The Quran was a revelation sent to Muhammad (pbuh) from God through the angel Gabriel. It was in the form of words. However, when you god sent the scripture to an illiterate man, he(the man) wouldn't know how to act upon it, because he cannot read or write. Rather, he had to be taught how to act upon the scripture. This is referred to as Sunnah (someone do correct me if I'm wrong)

The Quran and sunnah are taken at an equivalent value by most muslims, however, there are those who reject the sunnah. For example, who taught Prophet muhammad how to perform the wudhu? and how to perform the prayer? It was Gabriel ofcourse.

If I've said anything not in-line with islam, do forgive me as I dont know much but I'm learning too

 

[MustafaMc]

so according to many muslims then you can't possibly understand the quran because you don't know the language. this true?

I would not agree with this statement.

how come you have only read it 3 times? that seems like not much.

Yes, that is true. I had read in the Quran many times before, but just select passages pertaining to a particular subject. I hadn't read it from first to last page until after a conversation 4 years ago when I was discussing Islam with a Christian. He asked if I agreed with everything in the Quran and I said that I did. He then asked if I had read the whole thing and I had to admit that at the time I had not. Only 3 times is not much - you are correct.

i understand that any hadith that contradicts the quran is rejected (understandably so) but much of hadith is not contradicting anything in the quran but instead adding things that were not necessarily necessary (if they were wouldn't they have been included in the quran, the word of God narrated by mohammed?

No, that is not correct. How can you judge what is neccessary and what is not? The Quran was revealed exactly as Allah wanted, but couldn't have possibly included everything. One of the difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is a complete way of life with directives for every aspect of one's life down to the act of relieving oneself of waste. Christianity is a set of beliefs around Jesus that that does not command even any particular form of prescribed worship. Muslims strive to pattern their lives after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and it seems to me that the Quran serves one function while the hadith and sunnah serve another complimentary function.

the quran tells u to pray. isn't that good enough. i can take that as enough information that i don't need any hadith to tell me how. maybe God doesn't care how you pray just as long as you only pray to him. isn't that saying that the quran wasn't good enough because it didn't give you enough information? when according to you the quran tells you everything you need to know.

Actually, we believe that Allah does care how we pray to Him. You see Islamic prayer is an act of worship and obedience to the Will of Allah. Our personal supplications to Him are an important part and this part (usually in prostration with our foreheads on the ground) is unique and personal for each Muslim.

i pray different than anyone else on earth. my prayers are personal between myself and God. i don't need anyone to tell me my prayers are right or wrong or that any dialog i choose with God is unnacceptable.

So, you know your prayers are acceptable...hmmm. Oh yes, and you most likely end your prayer with something like "In Jesus' Name, Amen". To Muslims that very statement negates your entire prayer.

i mean its nice that you try to keep tradition alive. i am not trying to insult that but to say that it is the only way is what i have a problem with.

It is so much more than keeping a tradition alive. Islam means submission to the Will of Allah and we have the sunnah how to obey Allah how He wants to be obeyed - not according to our own whims and desires.

 

[north_malaysian]

The Quran is the revelation of God.

the hadiths are inspired by God to Prophet Muhammad....

And Prophet Muhammad made it clear which one is a hadith and which one is a koranic verse.

 

[Malaikah]

i can take that as enough information that i don't need any hadith to tell me how.

Not if you are a Muslim. The prophet was taught how to pray and he taught us. It is compulsory to pray that way.

maybe God doesn't care how you pray just as long as you only pray to him.

Maybe. Or maybe God sent us a prophet to clarify these things and that prophet clarified that there is a certain way that you must pray.

For the record, a Muslim who denies that we must pray in the way that the prophet taught us is not a Muslim.

isn't that saying that the quran wasn't good enough because it didn't give you enough information? when according to you the quran tells you everything you need to know.

That is not true, the Quran does not tell use everything we need to know. The Quran mentions a lot of thing, usually it specifies things in general, and the specifics are found in the explanations of the prophet. There are many other things that are not mentioned in the Quran that Muslims must still believe in and act upon.

Not every single detail is to be mentioned in the Quran. Otherwise it would be exteremely long, too long to be a central part of the lives of every Muslim.

i pray different than anyone else on earth. my prayers are personal between myself and God. i don't need anyone to tell me my prayers are right or wrong or that any dialog i choose with God is unnacceptable.

Even if God Himself told you to pray in a certain way? So you would dare tell God that it is not of his business how you talk to Him?

i mean its nice that you try to keep tradition alive.

It is not tradition, it is compulsory.

 

[MustafaMc]

It is not impossible for Allah to have included everything in the hadith along with the Quran - and then some more, but as Sister Malaikah just mentioned, "Otherwise it would be exteremely long, too long to be a central part of the lives of every Muslim."

Quran 18:109-110 O Muhammad tell them: "If the ocean were ink with which to write the words of my Rabb, the ocean would surely be consumed before the words of my Rabb are finished, even if We brought similar quantity of ink to replenish it. O Muhammad, tell them: "I am but a human being like you; the revelation is sent to me to declare that your God is One God; therefore, whoever hopes to meet his Rabb, let him do good deeds and join no other deity in the worship of his Rabb." Rabb means something to the effect of "Lord/Cherisher/Sustainer, etc".

I would think that a book written with the ink as voluminous as the ocean would be too large to imagine much less to be practical for humans with our limited capabilities.

 

[MustafaMc]

i wonder what God will do with a person who just can't make up their mind about what to believe. what if they die tomorrow, uncertain, just can't seem to grasp any particular faith. heard about christianity, not sure tho, heard about islam, but still uncertain.........................gee the thought of it makes me feel +o(

Allah will be the Judge and He is at the same time immensely Merciful and Just. My mind can't grasp how Judgement Day will go for myself much less for someone as you described. I don't think you will come across a Muslim who will say (as many Christians do), "I am saved and I know that if I die tonight that I will go to Heaven." However, the Quran tells us that those who believe and do good works - prayer, charity, etc are promised Gardens in Paradise. I will have to stand on Allah's promise and leave the judging for Him.

 

[Malaikah]

It is not impossible for Allah to have included everything in the hadith along with the Quran - and then some more, but as Sister Malaikah just mentioned, "Otherwise it would be exteremely long, too long to be a central part of the lives of every Muslim."

Thank you. Of course there are obviously other reasons why the Quran doesn't contain everything... I'm not properly educated into the reasons so I won't go in to in case I say something wrong.

But there are other things found in the hadith that don't belong in the Quran in the first place, such as the history of the early Muslims, biography of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and incidents that occurred during his time.

 

[- Qatada -]

:wasalamex


The Qur'an is a book of guidance once a person gets guided through Qur'an - then the laws and regulations can be found in depth within the Sunnah [Prophetic example/teachings etc.]



:salamext:

 

[Kashnowe]

very very interseting. thanks all for the replies.

ok so malaikah says

Even if God Himself told you to pray in a certain way? So you would dare tell God that it is not of his business how you talk to Him?

and this is what confuses me. i thought God did not say anything in the hadiths. i thought it was just how mohammed lived and traditions. where does it say that God said it? i thought the quran was what God said revealed to mohammed and from what i read elsewhere the hadiths are other oral traditions from witnesses that were written down a few hundred years after mohammed died. and most of the originals were conflicting so some councils had to pick and choose which ones were valid and which ones were not. ....... can someone calrify this some more for me? b/c from what i've read it says that the quran is the word of God and hadiths are not. so i nthat sense God does not tell you how to pray..................?

where does it say that women should cover their heads? quran or hadith? how come some communties do and some don't follow that rule?

i find it similar to certain christians (antiochs?) the women all wear long skirts. and amish......some mormons.......wai they are not christians. anywaysssss

Christianity is a set of beliefs around Jesus that that does not command even any particular form of prescribed worship. Muslims strive to pattern their lives after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and it seems to me that the Quran serves one function while the hadith and sunnah serve another complimentary function.

i think it s quite obvius i am no scholar but just your average joan however as far as i know christians strive to pattern their lives around jesus and it seems to me that the bible is all we need. and it include history and parables and laws to live by......all in one book. and for a christian the answer to 'what would jesus do?' is sufficient to any question about what to do.
so its much like you follow mohammed. very much so.

If you didn't accept the sunnah, you can then go to any church, synagogue, temple and start praying to any deity there.

no you ccan't because it says in the quran that there is one God. why would you pray to something that doesn't exist (any diety there)? you don't need the sunnah to tell you that. it also says that in the Bible. sooooooooo......?

So, you know your prayers are acceptable...hmmm. Oh yes, and you most likely end your prayer with something like "In Jesus' Name, Amen". To Muslims that very statement negates your entire prayer.

you might find this interesting...

i do not pray in jesus name. i believe that jesus was the name God gave himself on earth because he would not have been able to fufill his purpose if he walked around named God....(this is a silly example i know but much like if i am on aim and i have a screen name. if i cancel my aim account my screen name is deleted but i am still me....sometimes it is difficult to explain ones thoguhts :-[ )
i believe that when jesus was resurected (or when God resurected his human form back to the heavens) he gave up that name jesus because it was no longer needed. so when i pray i say 'My Dear God....' when i am done i say 'amen' or sometimes i pray before bed and enter into a long conversation with God....and then i fall asleep and don't get to say amen...but God is all knowing and he knows where my heart is. and so then i know all is well.

It is so much more than keeping a tradition alive. Islam means submission to the Will of Allah and we have the sunnah how to obey Allah how He wants to be obeyed - not according to our own whims and desires.

christianity is the same. there are laws and rules. ten commandments....... we are definately not instructed to live according to our own whims and desires. i mean we can pick if we want strawberry or grape jam on our toast....but the important things are all in the bible.

 

[- Qatada -]

Hey coolonka.


Here's a good link which explains the whole science of the collection of hadith:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-sources/37234-rules-governing-criticism-hadeeth.html

And also this:

Ahadeeth myths - this article clears any misconceptions to those who don't accept the Ahadith as a source of 'evidence' in the religion per se.




Maybe you could check it out, it will give a better explanation to how the Ahadith are an authority within the religion.


Anything linked to God's Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) authentically is a form of revelation or authority for us because the proof is in the Qur'an:

By the Star when it goes down,-

Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.

Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

He was taught by one Mighty in Power,


[Qur'an Al-Najm (the Star) 53: 1-5]​

Regards.

 

[Kashnowe]

wonderful explanation. thank you.