Re: Christians think that Jesus can be Immortal and Mortal at the sametime they say w
1) God-Jesus relationship is like Master-slave, I mean Jesus as a human-being was like a slave to God; in the sense that like any other man it was imperative on him to obey the commands of God and that he was in need of God's Help and hence he prayed (Matthew 14:23), prostrated in prayer (Matthew 26:39), got circumcised (Luke 2:21), fasted (Matthew 4:2) etc….the things that a devoted slave/worshipper of God does.
greetings peacelover, you can certainly enter the discussion. after all, we wouldn't want this to be a boys club only. anyway it must be admitted that you pick up on something really important in that in the same respect that christ took on a human nature, he did take on all the duties associated with this.
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross! --- Philippians 2:5-8 NIV
yes, certainly in his taking on human flesh the christ would have to follow his very own commandments. if living a perfect life means living in obedience to the law of god than as a human, he would certainly follow the very laws that he himself had given to the children of israel. he is perfect man and perfect god and if it were to be as such that he did not adhere to the law that every jewish male had to adhere to then he wouldn't be perfect, would he? now, what you bring up would only be a problem for the christian if the bible didn't also contain clear evidence that christ claimed to be god. he demanded that all should honour him exactly as they honour the father (john 5:23), he claimed to be able to do whatever the father does (john 5:19), and moreover he claimed that it would be him that would judge every person on judgement day (john 5:22). now, if what you said was true (that christ was only a man) then we couldn't harmonize the facts that i have brought up, but if what i said is true, then we can certainly harmonize christ's claims of being the god of israel and the clear evidence that he was also a man. that is, your argument does not work when we look at all the evidence but mine certainly does.
2) It seems illogical; if you say Jesus and God are of the same essence; that the slave is in fact the master and has all his authorities (Divine Supremacy) intact even in his human-form but still has to carry out all the obligations as a slave.
It's like you’re the CEO of a company and in spite of this you oblige yourself to work as a cleaner!
being found a man, he made himself like all other men. that is to say, where every human had failed to live the perfect sinless life in clear submission to the law of god, god decided that he himself would do so and in this manner save us from our sins. there is actually nothing illogical about that. if god so chose to be incarnated as a man and to live the perfectly sinless life in obedience to his law that no one else could live up to, then it would in fact follow that he would take on the role of a servant (i.e that of a human). as we come to the example of the ceo, a couple of years ago there used to be a show with the premise of the ceo's/presidents of various companies taking on the workers they employ and for the span of time that they were in this role, they followed the rules that they themselves helped craft. so even in real life such a thing does indeed happen.
3) Nowhere in the Bible is it clearly stated that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One…..idk if this is right but as far as I've researched I came across verses which have the 'three' mentioned together in the same verse (this doesn't mean they are one; does it??) but I didn't find any verse which clearly says the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God or that the three are of the same essence..
sure, i would agree with you that you won't find this sentence in the bible but what we should look at is whether or not the bible teaches this. the fact is, that what you will find is that the bible says that christ is god, that the holy spirit is god, and that the father is god. the bible says that christ created the world, that the father created the world, and that the holy spirit created the world etc. anyway, i simply mean to say that throughout the bible, everything that is true of god is ascribed to the persons of the father, the son, and the holy spirit yet never will you find the statement that there are three gods. the bible is quite clear that there is only one god yet at the same time it is equally clear in the fact that christ is god, that the father is god, and that the holy spirit is god. there is no question that that is the trinity.
) Their essence in not the same because Luke 23:46 says,
"Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last."
If in essence he is present with God then why would he say such a thing??
wonderful point but the error is in the regard that he is speaking to the father and as a man he is committing his spirit into the hands of the father. hmm, i'm rereading the above and i think that i might be misunderstanding what you mean. as such i'd ask you if you could explain the above point just a little bit more.
sorry peacelover, i wrote the above in somewhat of a hurry but i promise that i will answer your subsequent post appropriately.
One will represents one will only, Otherwise It is not a will, We should use another name as Common Sense. Three independent coordinator depends on each other ; False suggestion. Three different organizer without having no direct responsibility from their actions and decisions, and no superiority or inferiority complex over each other, having no personal identity except one sharing. Where is Wisdom, where is consciousness, making religion a puzzle before atheists. I don't even mention the words of 300 different corrupted Bibles in which there is only a few sentences about such a big matter.
now chavundur, i'm having trouble following your point. it seems to me that you simply say no to my point of a single will and then go on to attack a point that you yourself have proposed (which is not what i had in fact said) and then you attach something about the supposed corruption of the bible. this simply won't do. to begin with, first you should show how the point of only a single divine will is not valid before you can even propose your own interpretation. then you should show how three in one existence is illogical (and you certainly know which posts of mine that you will have to refute). the problem we have here is that you wish to participate in this discussion without providing a basis for the points you bring up. if you think that the trinity is incoherent then that is all fine and good, but please get to proving this and by that you will certainly have to first attack my position on oneness. once again, i'm pointing you to my posts 15 and 56.
