"Views on Atonement for Sin."

[Redeemed]

whatt??? have u ever had biology in u'r school? ever studied a little bit of biology?? u must be joking right?

I am dead serious, but not dead spiritually. I have an education master's degree in education. I asked or made comments that you didn't answer except with questions. Tell me how a bee flies? To fly it breaks every aerodynamic law for its size shape and weight. Tell me also what holds the atoms of a tree together. While you are at it, tell me where the wind is coming from and where it is going and how high is up? After you answer these, I have another set of questions. :? :? :?

 

[vpb]

While you are at it, tell me where the wind is coming from and where it is going and how high is up?

it comes from sun, radiation from the sun which creates places with low and high pressures so wind is caused as a matter of balancing these pressures.

Tell me how a bee flies? To fly it breaks every aerodynamic law for its size shape and weight

as for the bee, ti flies with it's wings. how it does, well i'm not an expert of bees to know .

where are u trying to get with these set of questions? the point I was making was about the thing that u said that these things don't make sense. they do make perfect sense.
and I was saying have u studied biology before, I didn't say physics or meterology.

just bc you have a master and u learned those things should u come and ask me those question? how about me start asking you about robotics and neural networks?

 

[evangel]

how about me start asking you about robotics and neural networks?

Is this what your occupation is?

 

[vpb]

Is this what your occupation is?

that's what I study.

 

[evangel]

that's what I study.only Robotics field.

vpb, I admire the passion you have when you speak about Islam but many times I feel as if you are trying to program me. Now that I see what your field of expertise is I understand a bit more. Artificial life can be programmed but those of us on the other end of your monitor should be shared with.
If your robots don't follow what you say you've entered faulty information. But with me, when you share I either accept or reject what you have to say and it's not personally against you. You seem to get upset when I don't just accept what you have to say and I just want to say it's not a rejection of you, heck I personally like you v, you've got a lot of fire.

 

[vpb]

I admire the passion you have when you speak about Islam but many times I feel as if you are trying to program me. Now that I see what your field of expertise is I understand a bit more. Artificial life can be programmed but those of us on the other end of your monitor should be shared with.

Only Allah guides.

If your robots don't follow what you say you've entered faulty information. But with me, when you share I either accept or reject what you have to say and it's not personally against you.

of course, you put rules for machines. you are a human not a machine.

You seem to get upset when I don't just accept what you have to say and I just want to say it's not a rejection of you,

I don't get upset bc you don't accept what I say, I get upset when you speak non-sense. You have u'r own brain to choose. but not everytime i get upset just when non-sense is too much

you've got a lot of fire

???

 

[evangel]

"You've got a lot of fire"
Enthusiasm, passion, stamina, persistence

 

[Woodrow]

you've got a lot of fire

???

Evangel just complimented you, that is American for you have a lot of enthusiasm, dedication, energy etc. In my day it would have been said "You have a lot of Moxie" I agree with Evangel. You do show much enthusiasm.

 

[NoName55]

evagelists are out in force, as usual, I see!

Should someone make a movie entitled "Invasion of the evangelistas on LI" ?

 

[evangel]

???

Evangel just complimented you, that is American for you have a lot of enthusiasm, dedication, energy etc. In my day it would have been said "You have a lot of Moxie" I agree with Evangel. You do show much enthusiasm.

Your years are showing Woodrow, I'm starting to wonder if you weren't one of the companions.

 

[evangel]

evagelists are out in force, as usual, I see!

Should someone make a movie entiled "Invasion of the evangelistas on LI" ?

And we're worse than cockroaches, we don't scatter from the light, we sit and enjoy it.

 

[NoName55]

Originally Posted by NoName55
evagelists are out in force, as usual, I see!

Should someone make a movie entiled "Invasion of the evangelistas on LI" ?

And we're worse than cockroaches, we don't scatter from the light, we sit and enjoy it.

cockroaches who like to enjoy light?
well, better watchout for new owner of this "room" lest ye be stomped upon and be squished under his big boots

 

[Redeemed]

check the comment of the verse I posted.

You were already shown in the video verses from the Qur'an which shows that :
1. God does not do things which are not godly.
2. You cannot be mortal and importal at the same time, or have a beggining and end at the same time
3.I showed you the comment of the verse, which u need to read it carefully what it says.
4.just for example, Humans go to bathroom to ..... ? how can God do that??? (astagfirullah).

No. We don't speak what we like, we speak only what Allah taught us.

This is my point. You only explained how the wind forms, but the question was where is it coming from and where is it going? All the other questions you answered with more questions. My point was, it doesn't make sense how God could become a man or the word of God become flesh, but that doesn't mean it is ungodly for it to have happened. That's what makes NO sense! Why is it ungodly? Besides, just because things don't make sense, Anyway, I don't believe that for God to love us so much that He would come down to earth to experience what it is like to be human so he could identify with us in a very special way and atone for our sin is ungodly or nonsense. The idea of this makes perfect sense and show God's love and mercy. It is the process that doesn’t make sense, but who tells you it is ungodly???

 

[Redeemed]

it comes from sun, radiation from the sun which creates places with low and high pressures so wind is caused as a matter of balancing these pressures.

as for the bee, ti flies with it's wings. how it does, well i'm not an expert of bees to know .

where are u trying to get with these set of questions? the point I was making was about the thing that u said that these things don't make sense. they do make perfect sense.
and I was saying have u studied biology before, I didn't say physics or meterology.

just bc you have a master and u learned those things should u come and ask me those question? how about me start asking you about robotics and neural networks?

I posted in the wrong place: This is my point. You only explained how the wind forms, but the question was where is it coming from and where is it going? All the other questions you answered with more questions. My point was, it doesn't make sense how God could become a man or the word of God become flesh, but that doesn't mean it is ungodly for it to have happened. That's what makes NO sense! Why is it ungodly? Besides, just because things don't make sense, It won't stop me from believing it when it comes to the things of God. Anyway, I don't believe that for God to love us so much that He would come down to earth to experience what it is like to be human so he could identify with us in a very special way and atone for our sin is ungodly or nonsense. The idea of this makes perfect sense and show God's love and mercy. It is the process that doesn’t make sense, but who tells you it is ungodly???

 

[vpb]

I posted in the wrong place: This is my point. You only explained how the wind forms, but the question was where is it coming from and where is it going?

I stated before, the radiation comes from sun to earth, which then from trying to equalize different pressure it creates wind.

All the other questions you answered with more questions.

you asked two question, one I explained , and the other I told u that i'm not a bee specialist. and as for going on the detail,explaining every single bit, and I'm not gonna do it, unless u manage to put an A grade in my uni grades.

My point was, it doesn't make sense how God could become a man or the word of God become flesh, but that doesn't mean it is ungodly for it to have happened. That's what makes NO sense! Why is it ungodly?

it is ungodly, bc God doesn't lie, God cannot perform injustice, God cannot become a man (a man eats drinks, goes to bathroom, dies, does not have perfect virrtues, it's a creation), that;s why these things are ungodly, so if God does them , he doesn't seem to be God. So that's why Allah explains to us in the Qur'an that he posses perfect virtues and to him belong the most beautiful names. and if he would become in human flesh, those virtues could not exist anymore in perfect form. get it?

Anyway, I don't believe that for God to love us so much that He would come down to earth to experience what it is like to be human so he could identify with us in a very special way and atone for our sin is ungodly or nonsense. The idea of this makes perfect sense and show God's love and mercy. It is the process that doesn’t make sense, but who tells you it is ungodly???

bc God is perfect, he has nothing to do with things which are not perfect and unGodly. as I explained above.

 

[Phil12123]

Did you hear him what he say? He is not placing limits on God, if you check the video again and pay attention, u see that he was backing up with verses, which shows that God doesn't do things which are ungodly. So a God becoming a human is not godly. It's common sense.

Why is "God becoming a human...not godly"? Why is it "common sense"? Probably because you associate humans with ungodliness, because humans are all sinners. God is above sin and sinless so to become human, God would become a sinner. Is that it? Or is that God would no longer be God, if he temporarily took on a body? I think all of that is just human thinking, limiting an all-powerful God Who can do whatever He wants to do.

Are u comparing humans with God??? We get tired and spend energy to help someone, but Allah does not !!!. Allah swt never gets tired, or Allah never sleeps....etc. Allah tells us in the Qur;an than when He wants to do something he just says "Be", and it becomes. Don't put my God in the level with humans.

God does not "get tired" --true. But God can "spend energy to help someone" ---not that He runs out of energy, but He can use His power to help someone. And all of us sinners needed His help in all the many ways that Christ helped us, including atoning for our sins. You say, "Don't put my God in the level with humans." I say, "Don't limit my all-powerful God and tell me things He can't or won't do!"

 

[Redeemed]

I stated before, the radiation comes from sun to earth, which then from trying to equalize different pressure it creates wind.

you asked two question, one I explained , and the other I told u that i'm not a bee specialist. and as for going on the detail,explaining every single bit, and I'm not gonna do it, unless u manage to put an A grade in my uni grades.

it is ungodly, bc God doesn't lie, God cannot perform injustice, God cannot become a man (a man eats drinks, goes to bathroom, dies, does not have perfect virrtues, it's a creation), that;s why these things are ungodly, so if God does them , he doesn't seem to be God. So that's why Allah explains to us in the Qur'an that he posses perfect virtues and to him belong the most beautiful names. and if he would become in human flesh, those virtues could not exist anymore in perfect form. get it?

bc God is perfect, he has nothing to do with things which are not perfect and unGodly. as I explained above.

What is not perfect about Jesus? Because he eats and goes to the bathroom does not defile a man. What sin has Jesus committed? Who said perfection can't exist in human form? God made the human beings perfect. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. So you are saying what God makes is less than perfect. You error not knowing the Scriptures. God made us perfect starting with Adam; it was sin that took away the perfection we once had through Adam; now it takes the last Adam to give it back so we could be right with God bc U ain't gona do it wit ur works!
May God open your eyes:blind:
PS. You said "He doesn't seem to be God." Well things are not as they seem!

 

[vpb]

Why is "God becoming a human...not godly"? Why is it "common sense"? Probably because you associate humans with ungodliness, because humans are all sinners. God is above sin and sinless so to become human, God would become a sinner. Is that it? Or is that God would no longer be God, if he temporarily took on a body? I think all of that is just human thinking, limiting an all-powerful God Who can do whatever He wants to do.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/44400-views-atonement-sin-8.html#post768004

God does not "get tired" --true. But God can "spend energy to help someone" ---not that He runs out of energy, but He can use His power to help someone. And all of us sinners needed His help in all the many ways that Christ helped us, including atoning for our sins. You say, "Don't put my God in the level with humans." I say, "Don't limit my all-powerful God and tell me things He can't or won't do!"

Yes we need his help and forgiveness. But God did not become a human and just simply die on the cross, why I explained on the link above (of the post) some of the reasons why can't God become a human. It's not about limiting power of God, it's about things which if God does He doesn't seem to be God anymore. And Allah stated himself on the many verses that He doesn't forget, He doesn't lie, None is like him.... So Allah swt is telling us in the Qur'an about things which does not belong to God, if God becomes in human flesh? that he loses his perfect virtues, bc human don't have perfect virtues. and many other things. You fail to realize that I'm not saying these of my own, i'm telling what the Qur'an is saying that God doesn't lie, forget, none is like Him etc. etc. but I don't know if you are paying attention completely to my posts.

What is not perfect about Jesus? Because he eats and goes to the bathroom does not defile a man. What sin has Jesus committed? Who said perfection can't exist in human form? God made the human beings perfect. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. So you are saying what God makes is less than perfect.

As a creation we are perfect, but remember that we don't have perfect virtues, we go to bathroom which is a disgusting thing etc. etc. cuz i've mentioned them 100 times. bc this world is like this, and in Jannah everything is perfect, we don't get sick, we don't get tired, we don't have to go to bathroom and take out what we ate etc.

You error not knowing the Scriptures. God made us perfect starting with Adam; it was sin that took away the perfection we once had through Adam; now it takes the last Adam to give it back so we could be right with God bc U ain't gona do it wit ur works!

We are perfect as a creation , but we make sins, and everyone knows that, but bc Adam made a sin, I'm not responsible for that, He a.s made it himself, and Allah take into account every single person and his/her deeds, or forgives him/her.

May God open your eyes:blind:

2:111. And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."

produce proof if you are truthful

PS. You said "He doesn't seem to be God." Well things are not as they seem!

Don't take everything literally.

 

[Phil12123]

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/44400-views-atonement-sin-8.html#post768004

That link did not take me to anything specific. Perhaps you could copy and paste whatever it is supposed to say, or just tell me your point.

Yes we need his help and forgiveness. But God did not become a human and just simply die on the cross, why I explained on the link above (of the post) some of the reasons why can't God become a human. It's not about limiting power of God, it's about things which if God does He doesn't seem to be God anymore. And Allah stated himself on the many verses that He doesn't forget, He doesn't lie, None is like him.... So Allah swt is telling us in the Qur'an about things which does not belong to God, if God becomes in human flesh? that he loses his perfect virtues, bc human don't have perfect virtues. and many other things. You fail to realize that I'm not saying these of my own, i'm telling what the Qur'an is saying that God doesn't lie, forget, none is like Him etc. etc. but I don't know if you are paying attention completely to my posts.

As a creation we are perfect, but remember that we don't have perfect virtues, we go to bathroom which is a disgusting thing etc. etc. cuz i've mentioned them 100 times. bc this world is like this, and in Jannah everything is perfect, we don't get sick, we don't get tired, we don't have to go to bathroom and take out what we ate etc.

We are perfect as a creation , but we make sins, and everyone knows that, but bc Adam made a sin, I'm not responsible for that, He a.s made it himself, and Allah take into account every single person and his/her deeds, or forgives him/her.

What you are saying is basically the same thing I said in my post as to why you probably think God cannot become a human or temporarily take on a human body. I.e., He would be like a human, a sinner, forget, lie, lose perfect virtues, etc. Jesus is proof that you're wrong. He never sinned, never forgot, never lied, never lost perfect virtues, etc. Did you pay attention to my post?

 

[vpb]

What you are saying is basically the same thing I said in my post as to why you probably think God cannot become a human or temporarily take on a human body. I.e., He would be like a human, a sinner, forget, lie, lose perfect virtues, etc. Jesus is proof that you're wrong. He never sinned, never forgot, never lied, never lost perfect virtues, etc. Did you pay attention to my post?

and he ate and drink, and prayed, and went to the bathroom, and got killed....... did u forget to mention these? and how can u say "he neve sinned", with God there is no such statement as "He doesn't sin" cuz God is not tempted by evil. I can't imagine how can you put God in such a low level as making him in human flesh. but anyways i'm not gonna continue on this, cuz we can't understand each other so there's no point of discussing any further.
If you want to learn about Tawheed,

(What is Tawheed?)
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-beliefs/44656-what-tawheed.html (What is Tawheed?)

(Importance of Tawheed)
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-beliefs/43570-importance-tawheed.html (Importance of Tawheed)

(The Importance of 'Aqeedah[belief] for the Muslim)
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-beliefs/43364-importance-aqeedah-muslim.html (The importance of ‘Aqeedah for the Muslim)

cuz i'm pasting them again.

as for the link u requested, here the text pasted:

Quote:
I did and they still don't. Now you may be getting a personal revelation which would make you the last prophet.

Astagfirullah. I don't get suprised of u speaking such words. Muhammed saws is the seal of the Prophets, the last Prophet.

(And there is none comparable to Him.) This means that there is none similar to Him, none equal to Him and there is nothing at all like Him.''

ok, let's see, if Allah becomes in flesh??? he will look like us? right? but the verse is showing us that God is like no one, so he can't become in flesh, cuz then he will look like us. and the appearance of Allah is out of our imagination as the verse is commenting.

If Allah becomes in flesh, he will need to eat, drink, sleep,..... , but Allah doesn't require to eat drink or sleep as stated from verses Dr. Zakir Naik showed.

If Allah become in flesh, then who will be above the Arsh?? Allah says in the Qur'an that He is above the Arsh (Throne).

These should be sufficient.

Quote:
I am a balance, on one side the good the other the bad. No matter how much good I put on the one side I still have the bad. God is just and the bad has to be paid for, has to be taken away before I can come before Him. Jesus paid the price, that is atonement.

I feel sorry to see you, hoping on a imaginary gift which doesn't exist, but it looks like the example given in Qur'an,

24:39. But the Unbelievers,- their deeds are like a mirage in sandy deserts, which the man parched with thirst mistakes for water; until when he comes up to it, he finds it to be nothing: But he finds Allah (ever) with him, and Allah will pay him his account: and Allah is swift in taking account.