war against islam or war on terrorism?

[Skillganon]

Those people that are coming to the US from Islamic Nations do not believe the War is a War against Islam.

How could they view something that they don't know off. If one don't know some aspect of Islam than one won't see where this aspect is been trying to be undermined.
Another thing is if one don't know about the mode of action being used to remove, or frohibit some aspect of Islam than it may very well they will not see it.

When I am using the word "War" I mean social, political and physical action.

I am in the view, nor under any delusion that their is considerable effort politically, socially, economically, and physically via within or outside, to undermine Islam by removing the bed-rock of it.

They will very much like to push Islam or reduce the Islam to a religion that is a lot of sufi-hogwash shoved in the closest. Which will not oppose their politically, economical or what ever sphere that serves their interest.

 

[Mateen]

Assalam-o-alaikum

In general East thinks USA is the enemy and west feels Islam is. Both are wrong.

For all that is happening we Muslims are responsible.

Yes Islam is the fastest growing Religion. Yes Islam is a peace loving religion. But also see the way it is perceived today.

Remember the last sermon of our prophet Muhammad{pbuh} where he says O muslims do not harm anyone so that nobody shall harm you.

The world is getting a very different view of Islam, thanks to the radical group.

We Muslims are the first in line if someone says something against Islam but what about our reactions when someone kills innocents in the name of Islam? We also should punish such people but we dont have a Kalif and so no one to hold an Islamic Ruling in cases.

Innocent killing is haram. Even if some non-muslim kills an innocent Allah says as to what is wrong with us muslims that we do not fight for the weak.

But when Muslims in the name of Islam does such an act our reaction must be more strong.

The world is fearing a big threat from Islam.
They get the picture of someone like a very radical believer who would be our Kalif. They are not shown the real picture.

On one hand we should help our brothers and sisters in Palestine but on the other hand we should take out marches, hold meetings not only with non-muslims but also with our muslim brothers who have misinterpreted Jihad.

If we cannot clarify Islam's stand, work against wrongdoings in the name of Islam, then we should not blame anyone but ourselves when we slowly one after another lose whole Middle East and beyond.

Wassalam.

 

[Woodrow]

How could they view something that they don't know off. If one don't know some aspect of Islam than one won't see where this aspect is been trying to be undermined.
Another thing is if one don't know about the mode of action being used to remove, or frohibit some aspect of Islam than it may very well they will not see it.

When I am using the word "War" I mean social, political and physical action.

I am in the view, nor under any delusion that their is considerable effort politically, socially, economically, and physically via within or outside, to undermine Islam by removing the bed-rock of it.

They will very much like to push Islam or reduce the Islam to a religion that is a lot of sufi-hogwash shoved in the closest. Which will not oppose their politically, economical or what ever sphere that serves their interest.

I can understand and appreciate your fears. However, I do not see them coming to pass here. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US and the majority of our Imans are from Islamic countries. I have yet to see any attempt to stifle Islam by any Government forces. The migrant Muslims are generaly very well accepted and there presence seems to be having more affect on American Culture than American Culture is having on Islam.

At the moment we have something like 100,000 American troops in Iraq. But, do you know there are now 360,000 Iraqis living in the US. An outside observer would come to the conclusion that Iraq is invading the US.

Where the most expatriates live
Largest Iraqi expatriate populations among the 14 nations that will hold expatriate voting for the Jan. 30 elections, and the estimated number of eligible voters:
Iraqi population Eligible to vote
Syria 500,000 250,000
Jordan 450,000 180,000
USA 360,000 230,000 United Kingdom 250,000 150,000
Iran 135,000 81,000

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-01-06-iraqis-us_x.htm

From what I see localy, Islam is having a much stronger influence on America than America is having on Islam. Much of this is from foreign born Muslims from countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, even Palestinians. In Tyler Texas there is now a large immigrant Palestinian population and they have established two very large Masjids and have won over many reverts from the local population.

Halal food is now becoming more common in the US. Laws about drunkeness are being passed and strongly enforced. Every place you look in America you will see influence from the noble Muslim immigrants who are here living as true Muslims and allowing us to learn the truth.

The University of Texas now has an Islamic Department that is even teaching Qur'anic studies and the Dept. is headed and run by Islamic Scholars, not trained native born Americans.

 

[Skillganon]

I can understand and appreciate your fears. However, I do not see them coming to pass here. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US and the majority of our Imans are from Islamic countries. I have yet to see any attempt to stifle Islam by any Government forces. The migrant Muslims are generaly very well accepted and there presence seems to be having more affect on American Culture than American Culture is having on Islam.

I am not talking about Muslim in america practicing Islam to the point that is permissable. Obviousely if one is talking about "ISLAM" in america which at this point their is no such thing and in other muslim countries their is not such thing ISLAM hence a state that implement ISLAM.

I am talking about other countries which their is a considerable efforts by western goverment to abolish atleast parts of Islam that is oppose to their interest.

At the moment we have something like 100,000 American troops in Iraq. But, do you know there are now 360,000 Iraqis living in the US. An outside observer would come to the conclusion that Iraq is invading the US.

With what Bombs missiles, guns? I do not care if their is Iraqis living in the US. The geographical area called Iraq, is not US.

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-01-06-iraqis-us_x.htm

From what I see localy, Islam is having a much stronger influence on America than America is having on Islam. Much of this is from foreign born Muslims from countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, even Palestinians. In Tyler Texas there is now a large immigrant Palestinian population and they have established two very large Masjids and have won over many reverts from the local population.

Halal food is now becoming more common in the US. Laws about drunkeness are being passed and strongly enforced. Every place you look in America you will see influence from the noble Muslim immigrants who are here living as true Muslims and allowing us to learn the truth.

The University of Texas now has an Islamic Department that is even teaching Qur'anic studies and the Dept. is headed and run by Islamic Scholars, not trained native born Americans.

Masshallah their are practicing muslim and are very good Daee. It's their obligation & to deliver the message.

What is happening in one's own home does not make it ok, of what's happening in other countries.

 

[Woodrow]

Most American GI's do not want to be in Iraq. The majority of the American people do not want us there either. The war in Iraq is also hurting Americans, not physicaly but economicaly it is a waste of money and moraly wrong.

I doubt if very many Americans have any desire to stifle Islam. If there is a bad influence from the western world the influence is the result of economics and not any public agenda. Big Business has more influence over the Western World than any political agenda. In the world of business if it creates profit it is nutured, if it is not cost effective it is allowed to wither or is removed. Big Business is the Culprit in my view not Western people.

The largest money makers in recorded history are war and immorality. Business seems to be geared towards them and big business is international, it has no homeland or any home culture. It exists where ever there are people willing to invest money into things simply for the promise of fast profit.

This promise of fast profit is what I see as the entity that is waging war against Islam. Yes, there are big money investors from every nation. Something like 1/4 to 1/3 of all American businesses are now owned by non-Americans. Most of those are the haram businesses such as Alcohol production and pornography.

 

[Skillganon]

Most American GI's do not want to be in Iraq. The majority of the American people do not want us there either. The war in Iraq is also hurting Americans, not physicaly but economicaly it is a waste of money and moraly wrong.

I doubt if very many Americans have any desire to stifle Islam. If there is a bad influence from the western world the influence is the result of economics and not any public agenda. Big Business has more influence over the Western World than any political agenda. In the world of business if it creates profit it is nutured, if it is not cost effective it is allowed to wither or is removed. Big Business is the Culprit in my view not Western people.

The largest money makers in recorded history are war and immorality. Business seems to be geared towards them and big business is international, it has no homeland or any home culture. It exists where ever there are people willing to invest money into things simply for the promise of fast profit.

This promise of fast profit is what I see as the entity that is waging war against Islam. Yes, there are big money investors from every nation. Something like 1/4 to 1/3 of all American businesses are now owned by non-Americans. Most of those are the haram businesses such as Alcohol production and pornography.

You have to really distinguish between different people in america and their views and America in the social, political, economical interest in other countries hence ther affiliation with corporate. The Democratical process are very well and influence by the corporates. When I am talk about just America, and not their allies, is soley is because they are on the fore-front.

You can read Noam Chomksy, he has interesting book's on some aspect of America (by the way he is an american).

On the point of "Iraq is hurting America economically", is actually hurting the cattles economically, you are the one actually paying the tax for destroying Iraq and paying the corporate for rebuilding with obviousely profit on the agenda. Long-term it "might" serve the economy of the country or atleast make the corporate a bit richer (good-investment) something that may be morally wrong but is totally rational.
I am sure the strategy of Iraq has not exactly gone as to planned but it does not negate that it was done for their interest in view. What ever the mode of sphere that take to serve their interest.

Islam as an ideology is very well opposed to their ideology.

 

[Woodrow]

I can not find any fault in your points. I am certain you have many valid reasons for them. I just want to point out that the vast majority of the Western People have no desire to harm Islam.

In regards to your last paragraph.

On the point of "Iraq is hurting America economically", is actually hurting the cattles economically, you are the one actually paying the tax for destroying Iraq and paying the corporate for rebuilding with obviousely profit on the agenda. Long-term it "might" serve the economy of the country or atleast make the corporate a bit richer (good-investment) something that may be morally wrong but is totally rational.
I am sure the strategy of Iraq has not exactly gone as to planned but it does not negate that it was done for their interest in view.

I agree fully with that and I know I am fed up with it. I am certain the average tax payer also is. At the moment I do not see any way out that will not cause more harm to Iraq. The people of Iraq have suffered needlessly for too long.

 

[Keltoi]

Woodrow brought up a good point which is the effect of multinational corporations on America and everywhere else around the globe. Many people from less developed countries who don't really have a grasp on the free market economic system assume that it is American "colonialism" that is spreading around the globe, when in fact it is the world economy at work. Richard Nixon once described the U.S. system as a wild animal that one could only attempt to control, the same could be said for multinational corporations.

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow brought up a good point which is the effect of multinational corporations on America and everywhere else around the globe. Many people from less developed countries who don't really have a grasp on the free market economic system assume that it is American "colonialism" that is spreading around the globe, when in fact it is the world economy at work. Richard Nixon once described the U.S. system as a wild animal that one could only attempt to control, the same could be said for multinational corporations.

There is no control over mulinational corporations at the present time. I doubt if anybody has any viable plan as to how they can be controled. How do you control something that is not centralized and can exist with no central control. The only control is profit and the lose of profit. Most successfull multinational corporations exist because at least one branch provides a need such as food or clothing while other portions provide high profits by simply operating in areas they are accepted.

Does a Muslim stop buying wheat because the wheat production is also used to produce beer. It is a complex issue. Us Muslims actually help support the beer industry because we buy wheat which in turn helps support the wheat industry which provides wheat for beer production. Something like 85% of the wheat consumed in the Mid East comes from Canada, which also produces most of the grain for beer.

Russia which is the worlds second largest wheat producer keeps most of it for domestic usage and is not a major exporter.


Sorry for the wheat rant, just trying to illustrate the complexities of multinational corpoations.

 

[Islamicboy]

Joe < Muslims cannot live in a non muslim country. This is agiasnt islam living in a non muslim country.

Also war on terror doesnt make sense. This war is really agiasnt islam. You can actually watch all the video clips from youtube or pictures that come out. Also watch an ex gitmo detainee he says how the soldiers as a tactic of torture tore Quran and did digusting things to it. But this war is not the war people may think. When i say war on islam i mean war on islam they dont care too much for secular muslims. Or muslims who follow half of islam and willing to change it with society. This war is directed towards those who implement Shariah and follow Quran & Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed S.A.W. Because of this war many muslims have been confused as the muslim countries removed the scholars of truth and put out fake scholars. All they do is lie so they can receieve a huge pay check in mail.

 

[arabiyyah]

This is agiasnt islam living in a non muslim country.

where does it say that? and if so, does that mean muslim majority or sharia run because there is no country truly run by sharia!

 

[Keltoi]

Joe < Muslims cannot live in a non muslim country. This is agiasnt islam living in a non muslim country.

Also war on terror doesnt make sense. This war is really agiasnt islam. You can actually watch all the video clips from youtube or pictures that come out. Also watch an ex gitmo detainee he says how the soldiers as a tactic of torture tore Quran and did digusting to it. But this war is not the war people may think. When i say war on islam i mean war on islam they dont care too much for secular muslims. Or muslims who follow half of islam and willing to change it with society. This war is directed towards those who implement Shariah and follow Quran & Sunnah of Prophet Muhammed S.A.W. Because of this war many muslims have been confused as the muslim countries removed the scholars of truth and put out fake scholars. All they do is lie so they can receieve a huge pay check in mail.

Aww..so all the Muslims that live in the West and prosper aren't really Muslims. I suppose the only "true" Muslims are those who set off car bombs? That is the only thing I can deduce from your post.

 

[Woodrow]

All countries that are majority Muslim became majority Muslim because Muslims chose to live in non-Muslim countries. Remember less then 1400 years ago, there was no country that was Majority Muslim. and countries such as Indonesia and Pakistan only became Muslim majority in the past couple hundred of years.

 

[Islamicboy]

where does it say that? and if so, does that mean muslim majority or sharia run because there is no country truly run by sharia!

You cannot live among the non muslims as they will corrupt you. I am not in the position as i live in a non muslim country. But inshallah i plan on moving soon after my parents agree. We muslims should be living among muslims the only time you can live with non muslims is when you are giving dawah.

 

[Islamicboy]

All countries that are majority Muslim became majority Muslim because Muslims chose to live in non-Muslim countries. Remember less then 1400 years ago, there was no country that was Majority Muslim. and countries such as Indonesia and Pakistan only became Muslim majority in the past couple hundred of years.

Then why do scholars such as bilal Phillips and others discourage us from living in a non muslim country or society?

 

[arabiyyah]

You cannot live among the non muslims as they will corrupt you. I am not in the position as i live in a non muslim country. But inshallah i plan on moving soon after my parents agree. We muslims should be living among muslims the only time you can live with non muslims is when you are giving dawah.

does it say this in the quran or hadith?

 

[Keltoi]

All countries that are majority Muslim became majority Muslim because Muslims chose to live in non-Muslim countries. Remember less then 1400 years ago, there was no country that was Majority Muslim. and countries such as Indonesia and Pakistan only became Muslim majority in the past couple hundred of years.

I find that somewhat disconcerting. Are you trying to imply that the only reason a Muslim should live in a non-Muslim country is to somehow become a majority? If the United States became a majority Muslim country do you think it would still be the United States, with all the liberties included in the American constitution? I'm not trying to be combative about some hypothetical Muslim statistic in the U.S., simply trying to understand if that is why you think Muslims should live in the West.

 

[Islamicboy]

Aww..so all the Muslims that live in the West and prosper aren't really Muslims. I suppose the only "true" Muslims are those who set off car bombs? That is the only thing I can deduce from your post.

I never said true muslim is he who blows himself. Taliban alhumdillah is pure muslim country. I never said muslims living in the west are not muslims.

 

[aamirsaab]

Sorry for the wheat rant, just trying to illustrate the complexities of multinational corpoations.

It's ok, I've only started 5 boycotts against weatabix. We'll get them one day.

Aww..so all the Muslims that live in the West and prosper aren't really Muslims. I suppose the only "true" Muslims are those who set off car bombs? That is the only thing I can deduce from your post

Believe me, it's always worse when you're the same religion as the culprit.

Reeling it back on topic: I believe some people percieve it is a war on Islam, infact this is an idea shared commonly with non-muslims (I've seen enough comments on just this one day to validate that claim, a simple yahoo message board such on "veils" will reveal a whole lot of ignorance).

Also, at times it seems as certain people are using terrorism to justify slaughtering muslims and defacing Islam, though this is often referred to as liberating or collateral damage. This is more hurtful than any physical damage as it puts muslims into a corner, in which they are allowed only to 'take it' - if a comment is so much as thought of, that muslim is pounced on and Islam takes another blow from the ignorants of society.

I'm beginning to think, increasingly, that the mere threat of Islam, or rather perceived threat, is driving manking against its very nature.

 

[Islamicboy]

does it say this in the quran or hadith?

I am sure you can find a thread on this forum