war against islam or war on terrorism?

[Hijrah]

What's disturbing is that even though some of these terrorist characts follow very deviant khawaarij, takfeeree ideologies, u see Bin Laden, for example, growing a beard and distinguishing from the kuffaar, Muslims here will shave it off completely, show no interest for Islam, get involved in haraam things, integrate into kufr society and then when someone comes to them all they can say is 'islam is a religion of peace' or 'o, these people don't really represent islam'. br. mateen spoke the truth right there.

a good example would be KAding who on the first page, pointed out, that to a certain extent he believes the terrorists are actually following Islam with the correct beliefs to a certain extent.

EDIT: Mateen are you shia?

 

[Woodrow]

Thats interesting pakistan is the bigges ally of america on war agiast islam. why the hell would usa use saudi bases to attack afganistan. Ofcourse they used pakistani bases.

From a Military standpoint it would be a disadvantage to use Pakastani bases for any military acts in Afghanistan. Security would be very difficult to maintain. There are many Afghanistan sympathisers in Pakistan. Aircraft takeoffs and landings could be monitored from Mountain tops in Afghanistan, reducing the effectiveness of the element of surprise.

There is no time advantage, with the speed of current aircraft. But, there would be much more pressure to get aircraft off the ground and to high altitude as fast as possible.

Plus by using bases further from Afghanistan air craft could stay at a higher altitude when landing, without need to come lower over Afghanistan and within the range of ground fire from Afghanistan troops.

Mateen i agree with you 100%. But if this thread is being refered to then i am sure all muslims agree this is new war agisnt islam. The tactics have changed/. As far as muslims livng in nonmuslim countries. non of us here are scholars but i did quote one mufti and Bilal Phillips video you can watch on this topic. Those were not my own fatwa or anything i am not a scholar neither is anyone else on thisforum.

Like you I also agree with Mateen, but it does sadden me to see that the things he said are true.

I am not as convinced as you are that this is a war against Islam. I am convinced it is a War against some Arab nations, but not because they are Muslim. I can not say it is a racial issue either as there is no animosity being shown against the majority of the Arab Nations. I really don't understand the animosity against those particular nations, so far I can not think of any reason why they would be a threat to any country outside of the Mediteranian area.

In spite of what many people tend to believe. Oil is really not an issue, nor a factor. The mid-east is no longer a source for "Cheap" oil. Even if the oil itself was free, The cost of drilling, storage and transportation of it would still make it more costly then other sources. Plus, the massive reserves that had been there are now considerably reduced.

Yes, Islam is at "war" with some aspects of Western culture. But, that is conducted as a peaceful Jihad by most Muslims. It is a battle within our selves not to succumb to the temptations of readily available sin.

 

[Nuseyba bintkab]

every where to day is a war against islam

 

[Woodrow]

every where to day is a war against islam

I have difficulty believing that. Perhaps it is because I do not get out of Austin very often. Here all I see is very much tolerance of us by the non-Muslims. The Muslim population here is growing rapidly, much of it new immigrants from Palistine, Irag, and Pakistan. The State College, Univeristy of Texas has established a very large Islamic Department. That is headed and Taught by Islamic Scholars from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The classes are attended not only by Muslims but also a large number of non-Muslims. There is even a Mosque on the campus for the Muslim students that live on campus. There are a very large number of Muslim students from Islamic countries now coming here to study. The Arabic Language is now an elective course at some of the public schools. Austin is not a very large City, but we know have 6 Mosques. Four quite large ones and they are not sufficien for all of the Muslims. 2 mosques are currently being added onto and several new ones have already started construction or are well along in the plans to start soon.

 

[Islamicboy]

Like you I also agree with Mateen, but it does sadden me to see that the things he said are true.

I am not as convinced as you are that this is a war against Islam. I am convinced it is a War against some Arab nations, but not because they are Muslim. I can not say it is a racial issue either as there is no animosity being shown against the majority of the Arab Nations. I really don't understand the animosity against those particular nations, so far I can not think of any reason why they would be a threat to any country outside of the Mediteranian area.

In spite of what many people tend to believe. Oil is really not an issue, nor a factor. The mid-east is no longer a source for "Cheap" oil. Even if the oil itself was free, The cost of drilling, storage and transportation of it would still make it more costly then other sources. Plus, the massive reserves that had been there are now considerably reduced.

Yes, Islam is at "war" with some aspects of Western culture. But, that is conducted as a peaceful Jihad by most Muslims. It is a battle within our selves not to succumb to the temptations of readily available sin.

Crusaders in the 1099 century used the same tactic they brainwashed everyone into thinking that muslims are evil barbaric people. Then the slaughter had taken place. Today we see the same all over agian but what i meant with the tactics changed. Anymore they cannot claim to be war with islam because there are liberial Americans too who wouldnt take too kindly to this. Therefore American media has taken the role of brainwashing the public. This is not a war agiasnt some "Arab Nation" thats what the enemy wants us to think. They want us muslims to be divided.


Muslims should ask themselves what if 911 did not happen to america? What if 911 happened in Russia? And Russia was at war with Taliban and Iraq. Would muslims support Russia or would the whole muslim world be outraged and Jihad would have been declared. The reason Muslims are moving back turing their face is because its America.

 

[Woodrow]

Crusaders in the 1099 century used the same tactic they brainwashed everyone into thinking that muslims are evil barbaric people. Then the slaughter had taken place. Today we see the same all over agian but what i meant with the tactics changed. Anymore they cannot claim to be war with islam because there are liberial Americans too who wouldnt take too kindly to this. Therefore American media has taken the role of brainwashing the public. This is not a war agiasnt some "Arab Nation" thats what the enemy wants us to think. They want us muslims to be divided.


Muslims should ask themselves what if 911 did not happen to america? What if 911 happened in Russia? And Russia was at war with Taliban and Iraq. Would muslims support Russia or would the whole muslim world be outraged and Jihad would have been declared. The reason Muslims are moving back turing their face is because its America.

It is quite difficult for the government to be controling the media in the US. In my household the only news we watch on TV is Al-Jazeera by satellite. Also there are many Islamic magazines available at the newstands. Yes, we do get bombarded with news media from ALL sources, but we are not directed to look at only "approved" sources. Some of the news sources are biased, but we also have the option of looking at other sources and deciding what is the truth.

911 was not an attack against the US although that may have been the intent. The World Trade Centers were truly international and many if not most of the Business housed in it were from different countries. Many Muslim companies from Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other Countries were housed in the buildings.

911 was as much of an attack on Islam as it was on the US. Many Muslims around the world are aware of that especially ones whose companies were headquartered in it. I suspect that there would have been little difference if the Towers had been in Russia if they had the same businesses in them as they had in New York. Although I doubt if Russia would have allowed the unrestricted presence of so many non-Russian businesses to operate out of Russia.

Anywhere in the world even here, at any given time you might see an anti-America protest. And most Americans will defend the peoples right to protest against what they see as wrong. Muslims in America are quick to point out wrongs in the US system and they are correct in doing so. Most Americans will support the right of any person to peacefully change any part of the system that discriminates against any person.

Very few American's are brainwashed into believing Muslims are evil. Muslims are finding much acceptance and the new comers are often surprised to see that there is no infringement of Muslim beliefs. Out of the thousand of Islams that enter the US each year and of the thousands Studying in US colleges, it is very few that have ever expressed any belief that their religious rights were infringed upon while they are in America.

I have yet to see or hear of any anti Islam Protest anywhere in America.

 

[Islamicboy]

I am not sure if you are the same person but I do recall you were in the American armed forces (military) were you not? Seems to be you have bias towards America as its your country that you truly love. You can probably accuse me of same I am bias when it comes to islam. Ofcourse i will side with muslims because i am muslim. But i have more then enough evidence that this war is evil war. This war is here i will quote Sheik Fiez "Where the person attacked doesnt even know he is being attacked". They have launched an ideological attack.

911 was not an attack on islam brother I can tell you that for sure. All those muslim nations were helping the American economy. While the americans were helping israel kill muslim children. Brother could you please tell me am I as a muslim allowed to give a non muslim gun to kill another muslim? Ofcourse not its the same thing when the muslim countries that help the US they are giving non muslim guns and weapons to kill muslims. Your claim very few americans are brainwashed into thinking muslims are evil is obscured. Many non muslims will lie to your face they will pretend to like you. Behind your back they have hatred what there hearts hold are far worse then which they expose with there mouths.

 

[GARY]

I am not sure if you are the same person but I do recall you were in the American armed forces (military) were you not? Seems to be you have bias towards America as its your country that you truly love. You can probably accuse me of same I am bias when it comes to islam. Ofcourse i will side with muslims because i am muslim. But i have more then enough evidence that this war is evil war. This war is here i will quote Sheik Fiez "Where the person attacked doesnt even know he is being attacked". They have launched an ideological attack.

911 was not an attack on islam brother I can tell you that for sure. All those muslim nations were helping the American economy. While the americans were helping israel kill muslim children. Brother could you please tell me am I as a muslim allowed to give a non muslim gun to kill another muslim? Ofcourse not its the same thing when the muslim countries that help the US they are giving non muslim guns and weapons to kill muslims. Your claim very few americans are brainwashed into thinking muslims are evil is obscured. Many non muslims will lie to your face they will pretend to like you. Behind your back they have hatred what there hearts hold are far worse then which they expose with there mouths.

You speak of brainwashing, but your explaination of the world as you see it, is not new. Others have claimed the same things. These views though, are seen as the other side of the spectrum of brainwashing. These views - are associated with the anti-western propaganda that is being spewed out by hate groups and anarchists - in the minds of many.

 

[Woodrow]

I am not sure if you are the same person but I do recall you were in the American armed forces (military) were you not? Seems to be you have bias towards America as its your country that you truly love. You can probably accuse me of same I am bias when it comes to islam. Ofcourse i will side with muslims because i am muslim. But i have more then enough evidence that this war is evil war. This war is here i will quote Sheik Fiez "Where the person attacked doesnt even know he is being attacked". They have launched an ideological attack.

911 was not an attack on islam brother I can tell you that for sure. All those muslim nations were helping the American economy. While the americans were helping israel kill muslim children. Brother could you please tell me am I as a muslim allowed to give a non muslim gun to kill another muslim? Ofcourse not its the same thing when the muslim countries that help the US they are giving non muslim guns and weapons to kill muslims. Your claim very few americans are brainwashed into thinking muslims are evil is obscured. Many non muslims will lie to your face they will pretend to like you. Behind your back they have hatred what there hearts hold are far worse then which they expose with there mouths.

True I am the one who was in the USAF 40 years ago. I am also the one who was permenatly disabled as a result of it in a war I did not approve of. I have many reasons why I could very easily hate the US and all it stands for. In fact I have lived much of my life outside of the US. I believe American democracy is a very poor form of government. Yet, so far it is better then the Government of any other country I have ever lived in.

I can agree with your quote:

This war is here i will quote Sheik Fiez "Where the person attacked doesnt even know he is being attacked". They have launched an ideological attack.

That is true. However, I have yet to see the attack that you keep mentioning. I do not know of any person in the US who believes America should or is attacking Islam. With the religious diversity here, it would be impossible to gain a united religious effort against any religion anywhere in the world.

What you see as an attack is not an attack bu America or Americans. It is the result of world economics and it is the appeal of wealth among multi-national corporations that is tempting and threatening Islam. Because of the wide spread and international nature of the giant multinational corporations many of our Muslim brothers are being faced with the love of wealth and the desire to shun their less wealthy brothers. The multinational corporations have an insatiable greed for wealth and do have a need to end not only Islam but all religions, as religions is the enemy of greed.

Now the question is where are these multinational corporations located? The answer is everwhere. The investors supporting them are found in every nation and among every ethnic group. There is no central control center. The investor who may be your next door neighbor or a small Palestinian business man is dependent on the success of the investors in those corporations to survive. We have gotten ourselves into a huge trap and all of the world is presently a prisoner of world economics.

As far as hatred among non Muslims. Remember I did not revert until a little over a year ago and I was quite active in the non-Muslim community. I have only heard one Non-Muslim say anything offensive towards Muslims and that was in the nature of a biased joke about clothing. In my years as a non-Muslim I have never seen any thing that would cause me to believe Islam was evil and I have never heard a Non-Muslim say anything indicating they believed Islam is evil.

 

[Keltoi]

I've said this many times, but to me the only people making the current conflicts after 9-11 a "war against Islam" are terrorists and propoganda agents. Sadly, some Muslims will buy into this. I'm not defending any foreign policy decision, but there is no war against Islam. Saying it doesn't make it true, citing "evidence" that you can't put into words doesn't make it true. There is a war going on alright, but it has to do more with foreign policy blunders in the case of Iraq. I supported and still support the War in Afghanistan, where I believe our attention should be focused in the first place. Al-Qaeda is the enemy, not Islam.

 

[Islamicboy]

Taliban had offered to give bin laden if prove was provided but your devil government refused to provide evidence. It makes compelet sense no country just give away there citizen without evidence probably some middleeastern countries do that. But not islamic countries.

 

[Woodrow]

Taliban had offered to give bin laden if prove was provided but your devil government refused to provide evidence. It makes compelet sense no country just give away there citizen without evidence probably some middleeastern countries do that. But not islamic countries.

Have you ever lived in a Mid eastern country? Is the country you now live in Islamic?

In spite our desires to live in a truly Islamic country the closest any of us can come is to live in an Islamic community within the country we reside in. You do not seem to accept any mid-eastern countries as being Islamic. I believe the country you most often refer to as being Islamic is Somalia. I will agree that many Somalians are very good Muslims, but even in somalia, especialy in Mogadaishu you will find corruption and people calling themselves Muslim but not practicing Islam.

 

[Islamicboy]

Lets get some misconspection about me correct. I don't hate western world and I don't hate American Civilians. I respect western civilians because some will speak out for justice.
I lived in Saudi Arabia my dad lived there over 22 years off his life. I know quite few people here in Canada where i live now who came from saudi arabia and middle eastern countries.
Yes, i do agree with you woodrow that we can live in a non muslim in muslim community. I wish to move to a islamic country inshallah soon right now i live with my parents and recently finished highschool. Besides my parents objection in me moving i dont have the money either. so inhallah i plan to wait before i move.
Reason i dont accept any musim country as islamic is because the governmnets kill there own people. Jail torture and depot just to make west happy. Which seems to work in a lot of the cases.

I dont support Al Qaeda but I do support Taliban. I am not too sure about Al Qaea war tactics being islamic.

General Public will have some sinners ofcourse. Even in saudi arabia there are Prostitutes. But as long s i have the freedom to practice my reiligion without being forced to walk outside and see bunch of half naked women and men that swear every other word. I wouldnt want to leave canada who would honesty. But for the sake of Allah and trying to live a sin less life or atleast protectin myself from the sins. Also i heard when the wrath of allah comes on the sinners it takes everyone around them.

 

[Woodrow]

Lets get some misconspection about me correct. I don't hate western world and I don't hate American Civilians. I respect western civilians because some will speak out for justice.
I lived in Saudi Arabia my dad lived there over 22 years off his life. I know quite few people here in Canada where i live now who came from saudi arabia and middle eastern countries.
Yes, i do agree with you woodrow that we can live in a non muslim in muslim community. I wish to move to a islamic country inshallah soon right now i live with my parents and recently finished highschool. Besides my parents objection in me moving i dont have the money either. so inhallah i plan to wait before i move.
Reason i dont accept any musim country as islamic is because the governmnets kill there own people. Jail torture and depot just to make west happy. Which seems to work in a lot of the cases.

I dont support Al Qaeda but I do support Taliban. I am not too sure about Al Qaea war tactics being islamic.

General Public will have some sinners ofcourse. Even in saudi arabia there are Prostitutes. But as long s i have the freedom to practice my reiligion without being forced to walk outside and see bunch of half naked women and men that swear every other word. I wouldnt want to leave canada who would honesty. But for the sake of Allah and trying to live a sin less life or atleast protectin myself from the sins. Also i heard when the wrath of allah comes on the sinners it takes everyone around them.

Jazakallahu Khair for replying. Having some knowledge of a person and where they have been makes it easier to put their statements into the proper light.

Regarding your last sentence. since we are all sinners and all of us have sinned, I am making the asumption you mean non-believer. Is it not true that each of us will be judged on our own deeds and not held accountable for the deeds of others? We may often have no choice as to where we live. However we always have a choice of if we will live among them or if we live in the proximitry of them. To live among denotes living as them. To live in the proximitry of them means in the physical area. As long as their is one non-believer on this earth we are all living among a non-believer.

In Canada I would suggest that you go outside the large cities and enjoy the freshness of the people in the rural areas who do not condone the blatant lewdness of the city life. I have found the open lewdness in any country to be the result of large cities where the acts of a few become more public and are often mistaken as the attitude of the city and the country.

For those very reasons I have shunned city life most of my life. It is only because I no longer can care for myself that I now live in a City. I feel very fortunate that the City is Austin, as here I have not seen the open sin fullness I have found in other cities, throughout the world. I suspect those are a sickness of city life and not a reflection of the majority of the people of any nation.

I do not know how long you have been in Canada, but I hope you are there long enough to see that the Western World has no agenda to destroy Islam.

 

[Islamicboy]

Woodrow i will take your word for it. I believe west or American government does not have a plan of making war agiasn't islam. The only way we will truly be able to figure this out is by waiting and watching the results of this so called "WAR ON TERROR"

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow i will take your word for it. I believe west or American government does not have a plan of making war agiasn't islam. The only way we will truly be able to figure this out is by waiting and watching the results of this so called "WAR ON TERROR"

We can do a little more then just watch. One of the most important things we can do is live a life that shows the world exactly what a Muslim is. Any one of us may very well be the only example of a Muslim some people will ever see and based on us that is what will be thought of as what Islam is.

This is one difficulty us Muslims in the west have. We need to be aware that all of Islam will be seen as what we say and do. For that reason we need to have strong Imam and be able to overcome all temptations and to defeat adversity with peace instead of words or actions of hate.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

It is fighting some interpretations of Islam, yes. What they call the 'extremists' or 'fundamentalists', the revolutionaries if you will. I don't think the US is fighting 'Islam' in general though. The US is actually cooperating with a lot of Muslims in their fight against these people.

The U.S. doesn't like the interpretation of Islam that doesn't like the U.S. - that's actually a no-brainer.

Ninth Scribe

 

[Woodrow]

The U.S. doesn't like the interpretation of Islam that doesn't like the U.S. - that was actually a given.

Ninth Scribe

A lot of truth in that. However it isn't so much not liking the US that is disliked it is some of the methods of showing dislike are what isn't liked. A good example is Morocco has shown it does not like an American presence in Morocco. I believe all US Bases in Morocco have been shut down and nearly all Americans are now out of Morocco. But, that was done quietly in peacefull diplomatic methods and the US still has good relations with Morocco. I suspect the outcome would have been different if there had been street demonstrations demanding Americans to leave.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

A lot of truth in that. However it isn't so much not liking the US that is disliked it is some of the methods of showing dislike are what isn't liked. A good example is Morocco has shown it does not like an American presence in Morocco. I believe all US Bases in Morocco have been shut down and nearly all Americans are now out of Morocco. But, that was done quietly in peacefull diplomatic methods and the US still has good relations with Morocco. I suspect the outcome would have been different if there had been street demonstrations demanding Americans to leave.

Yes, very true. Politicians are so creepy, which is why the work force used to ignore it all. But, in doing so, they took advantage of the situation while our backs were turned... then tried to fire all the watch-dog groups who were monitoring their activities and ratting them out. So we have to babysit them and watch every thing they try to do. Definately puts a dent in my free-time... bast---s!

American people don't do anything to make people mad at us... we're too cute

Ninth Scribe

 

[Dawud_uk]

"war against terror and its targets--A question for non-Muslims"

this thread is particually addressed to the non muslims here,

so peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

i wish to ask you a question...

do you follow the logic of your politicians and leaders that if a muslim nation, or its leaders anyway help sponser or in some way support an attack on your nation then that would in itself make that nation a target for attack even though innocents would inevitably be killed in the process?

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Abu Abdullah