what do christians & jews believe in?

[Grace Seeker]

Yeah sure , you jews sure focus wellon following the commands [/sarcasm]

Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not kill

Which is why the israelis committing the biggest robbery of the 20th century.

Not all Jews are Israelis and not all Israelis are Jews. That which you complain about is Zionism, not Judaism. There is a difference.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I must say....I also fell into the trap of believing that "Judeo-Christian" Meta-narrative. Many Christians claim their concepts are found in the OT---a false claim.---Unless one totally distorts the OT into something unrecognizable by Jews......

It isn't a false claim that Christian concepts are found in the OT. I can show you illustration after illustration. But you are certainly right in saying that the Christian Church re-interpreted the OT in the light of its understanding of Jesus as the Messiah and went so far as to develop new ideas with regard to that Messiah that were no a part of the OT.

As to whether those interpretations so distort the OT into something unrecognizable by Jews, I don't know. I suppose there are going to be disagreements on that point. On some particulars that may be true, but I would not think on the whole. If it were, I do not think that there would be groups such as Messianic Jews that are followers of Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[YM Usrah Umar]

I hadn't been in this thread before, when I first saw it there were already pages of posts, and I figured one more comment really wasn't needed. But I was curious if what was being presented with regard to Christianity was my understanding of the Christian faith or perhaps some sort of strawman. Well, even expecting to find a few points that I would disagree with I was still surprised to find something as egregiously wrong and even offensive as the following being the third post of the thread:

Without going into details, let me simply state: NONE OF THE ABOVE IS TRUE.

NO OFFENCE TO THOSE WHO READ THIS, WHETHR CHRISTIAN OR JEW OR MUSLIM...IF I OFFEND PLZ FORGIVE ME.

* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
* The "spirit of the Lord" will be upon him, and he will have a "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
* Nations will recognize the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
* He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

Believe it or not grace seeker, thers hadiths (sayings of the prophet muhammed (pbuh) about the above mentioned points and they are in agreement

 

[Grace Seeker]

YM Usrah Umar, what you posted above are not offensive. The summaries provided are classical understandings of the end times held by Christians, whether or not they are held by Jews I will let them speak for themselves. But they have nothing to do with that post which I said was offensive and untrue.

Dajjal is the Messiah of the Jews.

I had to look up the term "Dajjal" where I learned it is an Islamic term for the anti-Christ.
Well given that Christ is an English word derived from a Greek word meaning Messiah. It is like saying that the Anti-Messiah is the Messiah of the Jews. That is just a nonsense statement. Enough said.

The Jews and the Christians are all waiting on a Prophet from Arabia to come and guide them

You've heard it from Boaz that Jews are not waiting on a Prophet from Arabia. I'm telling you that neither are Christians.

Now you can believe what it is that a Christian and a Jew have each told you with regard to our beliefs, or you can believe something written by a source that has led even many Muslims in this thread to suggest you need to seek a better source than this one.

, i.e. Prophet Muhamad Sallahu Alayhi Wasalam, but they reject him as prophet, so they still sit in wait for him.

This is the one thing that is right, on the whole (though there are always a few individual exceptions) Jews and Christians do reject Muhammad (pbuh) as being a prophet of either Judaism or Christianity, and most would even reject that he is a prophet at all. And while Jews may still wait for the arrival of their Messiah, Christians believe he already has come. Also Christians believe that prophecy is a gift that God gives to many. Most think that it continues to be bestowed by God on people even to this day, but not in the way that Muslims think of a person as a prophet.

I thought Jews believe that Musa Alayhi Salam was the son of God or something.. I read that in a very knowledgeable book, Stories of the Prophets.

No! No where, no time, by no one, no how. Jews believe nothing of the sort!! If you read that in a book, then it was not as knowledgable of a book as you supposed. Even if it accidently got something else right, this is such a big error I wouldn't trust anything else you read in this book. Throw it away and learn to be more discerning in the sources you trust.

Oh, and of course, NO OFFENCE TO THOSE WHO READ THIS, WHETHR CHRISTIAN OR JEW OR MUSLIM...IF I OFFEND PLZ FORGIVE ME.

 

[YM Usrah Umar]

YM Usrah Umar, what you posted above are not offensive. The summaries provided are classical understandings of the end times held by Christians, whether or not they are held by Jews I will let them speak for themselves. But they have nothing to do with that post which I said was offensive and untrue.

just out of curiosity...the jews follow the old testament right?

 

[Darth Ultor]

Yes that is correct.

 

[Muslom]

Interpretation of this passage (both sound and unsound) is found extensively on the internet. If interested, I just encourage you to look for sermons with Jacob as the subject matter, for this is a watershed event in Jacob's life. His behavior before left much to be desired, but he becomes a different sort of person afterward, much more in keeping with what one would hope to find in a man of God.

Peace be to you
Sorry, Are you actually claiming that Prophet Jacob pbuh become an indecent man because of this?
You know you have to be careful just because you are christian it does not give you the right to disregard other men who are in the Eyes of God maybe better than you by all means, you should stay away from this as I am more than sure that prophet Christ (PBUH) wouldn't approve of any one who claims to follow him to make such statements in the name of following his teachings.

Peace be to you

 

[Muslom]

You've heard it from Boaz that Jews are not waiting on a Prophet from Arabia. I'm telling you that neither are Christians. Now you can believe what it is that a Christian and a Jew have each told you with regard to our beliefs, or you can believe something written by a source that has led even many Muslims in this thread to suggest you need to seek a better source than this one.

Peace be to you

Where does it say that Jews and Christians are waiting for a prophet from Arabia?
The Prophet PBUH was sent to all mankind regardless of what you beleive.
Also, I think there is a verse in the Bible that says that Jesus was only sent for Israels miguided "****" - I don't think it's a nice word to mention.

Also Christians believe that prophecy is a gift that God gives to many. Most think that it continues to be bestowed by God on people even to this day, but not in the way that Muslims think of a person as a prophet.

What you think and what other Christians or followers of other religions think can not be imposed on God almighty, We Muslims also believe that prophecy is a gift God give to many of His Pious servants, there is a difference between a Prophet and a Messenger.
Just because someone claims to read the future or He has witnessed GOd or God has "Spoken" to them does not mean they are saying the Truth. Does not mean they really are prophets and it definatley does not mean that what you said has any relevance, It is best to stop coming and discussing this indoctrine issues because they were not even there when Prophet Christ PBUH was alive, and I am sure if he came back today the last thing he would do is go and greet one of whom you call to be "blessed" by the "Father"(God the Creator) It is quite dissapointing to see this coming from followers of Christ it really is you guys know exactly how to make someone have the wrong image of the True Christ PBUH.

Please don't discuss with me anything other because by all honesty I do not recognize any of these Christian indoctrines and I am sure Christ wouldn't recognize them either. In the End people will be Judged according to their deeds and intentions and not to which denomination of fanaticism they supported.

Peace be to you

 

[Darth Ultor]

Aren't all messengers prophets?

 

[Muslom]

Aren't all messengers prophets?

No, they are not there is a big difference between a Messenger and A Prophet:
To give you a brief explanation: A Messenger is on a higher rank because He was sent by God with Teachings ( either a Book or a scripture) to a certain group and he establishes a religion according to the Law that God has given him at that time.
For Example: Moses, Jesus these are Messengers and Prophets
A Messenger must essentially be a Prophet but the same does not go for a Prophet he does not have to be a Messenger.
A Prophet : Is one who receives revelations from God , either through and Angel or Visions such as Jacob , Joeseph, Job..etc

I hope I made it clearer.

Peace be to you

 

[Muslom]

Aren't all messengers prophets?

Yes, they are but there is a big difference between a Messenger and A Prophet:
To give you a brief explanation: A Messenger is on a higher rank because He was sent by God with Teachings ( either a Book or a scripture) to a certain group and he establishes a religion according to the Law that God has given him at that time.
For Example: Moses, Jesus these are Messengers and Prophets
A Messenger must essentially be a Prophet but the same does not go for a Prophet he does not have to be a Messenger.
A Prophet : Is one who receives revelations from God , either through and Angel or Visions such as Jacob , Joeseph, Job..etc

So , all Messengers are Prophets in first place but not all Prophets are Messengers.
I hope I made it clearer.

Peace be to you

 

[JOHNJOHN]

Yes, they are but there is a big difference between a Messenger and A Prophet:
To give you a brief explanation: A Messenger is on a higher rank because He was sent by God with Teachings ( either a Book or a scripture) to a certain group and he establishes a religion according to the Law that God has given him at that time.
For Example: Moses, Jesus these are Messengers and Prophets
A Messenger must essentially be a Prophet but the same does not go for a Prophet he does not have to be a Messenger.
A Prophet : Is one who receives revelations from God , either through and Angel or Visions such as Jacob , Joeseph, Job..etc

So , all Messengers are Prophets in first place but not all Prophets are Messengers.
I hope I made it clearer.

Peace be to you

HI Muslom


I would like to clarify something.

We all agree that a Nabi = Prophete
and a Rassoul = messenger

For you a prophete can not reiceive a book ?

you say that all prophete are not messenger if they are not messenger they are sent by who ? the word rassoul comes from the word arssala wich means sent.

Correct me if I am wrong.


Peace.

 

[جوري]

from the word arssala wich means sent.

The word Risala means =

Babylon Arabic-English رسالة
n. letter, despatch, message, dispatch, missive, writing, bill, brief, epistle, tractate, treatise, mission

best

 

[JOHNJOHN]

HI τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


thank you for the translation.:embarrass

 

[جوري]

HI τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


thank you for the translation.:embarrass

greetings,
Not a problem, I am not actually following this thread, I just read your post and wanted to give proper Arabic translation.

best,

 

[Grace Seeker]

[/B]
Peace be to you
Sorry, Are you actually claiming that Prophet Jacob pbuh become an indecent man because of this?

That's not what I said. I suggest you read again what I actually did say: Jacob's behavior (prior to, previous to) this incident record in Genesis 32 (i.e incidents in Jacobs life that are recorded in Genesis 25-31) leave much to be desired (i.e. much that could be improved upon). But after this what you read about Jacob is much better.

You know you have to be careful just because you are christian it does not give you the right to disregard other men who are in the Eyes of God maybe better than you by all means, you should stay away from this as I am more than sure that prophet Christ (PBUH) wouldn't approve of any one who claims to follow him to make such statements in the name of following his teachings.

Peace be to you

As opposed to those who don't know Christ, but are sure that they know what he would and wouldn't not approve of.

 

[May Ayob]

As opposed to those who don't know Christ, but are sure that they know what he would and wouldn't not approve of.

I don't want to interrupt your reply
But I thought Christ was for "everyone"?
According to that I think Muslom does believe that Christ is a messenger and Just like you Love Christ , Every Muslims Loves Him too.
So no need to say these things as what matters is what God Judges and not what we Judge

Peace be to you

 

[Grace Seeker]

Peace be to you
Where does it say that Jews and Christians are waiting for a prophet from Arabia?

It doesn't. And I didn't say it either. Do you know who did say it? One of your brothers in Islam.

The Jews and the Christians are all waiting on a Prophet from Arabia to come and guide them

And of course he is wrong in making that assertion. It is his error that I was correcting.

You may not believe or accept Christian doctrine. Fine. But if you are going to declare that Christians supposedly believe something get it right. Don't say that we believe something that we don't. I think we know what we believe better than you do.

Just because someone claims to read the future or He has witnessed GOd or God has "Spoken" to them does not mean they are saying the Truth.

I totally concur. But are you willing to accept that as a truth that can be applied across the board?

In the End people will be Judged according to their deeds and intentions and not to which denomination of fanaticism they supported.

Peace be to you

If this is true, then it is a very good argument for not needing to become a Muslim. Thank-you for sharing your views.

 

[May Ayob]

But are you willing to accept that as a truth that can be applied across the board?

Well I am , And believe me , I know many things about Christianity since my childhood, Let's Focus on what we have in common and not our differences because just as you don't want to compromise your religion others don't want to as well , I as a Muslim can not claim that I am 100% on the truth I don't have that confidence and I leave it up to God to Judge what is right and what is wrong

Peace be to you

 

[Grace Seeker]

A Messenger must essentially be a Prophet but the same does not go for a Prophet he does not have to be a Messenger.
A Prophet : Is one who receives revelations from God , either through and Angel or Visions such as Jacob , Joeseph, Job..etc

I hope I made it clearer.

Peace be to you

So , all Messengers are Prophets in first place but not all Prophets are Messengers.

Ah, so a prophet might just receive a revelation from God, but never themselves share it with others? Because sharing it with others would in fact make them a messenger. This is true because the definition of "messenger" is "one who delivers a message." Thus the only way for a prophet to not be a messenger would be to not deliver any message associated with whatever revelation you claim they have received. That concept (which I personally find ridiculous) is what you have succeeded in making clear.