What it would take for me to believe

[TheRationalizer]

I don't see how any book's got to do with the qur'an.
Please address the subject re: the preservation of the qur'an.

You should let me answer in my own way. It doesn't matter if you see what the link is or not (although I can't see how it isn't obvious). If you answer my question then I will be able to answer yours.

 

[Ramadhan]

You should let me answer in my own way. It doesn't matter if you see what the link is or not (although I can't see how it isn't obvious). If you answer my question then I will be able to answer yours.

I take your refusal to address my post as an affirmative confirmation that you agree with it.

Thanks

 

[TheRationalizer]

I take your refusal to address my post as an affirmative confirmation that you agree with it.

Thanks

You can take it that way if you wish, but you will be wrong

But seeing as you don't seem to want to admit that reordering chapters is "modifying a book" let's discuss something rather than arguing something (I prefer arguments anyway.)

I've not looked into the Sana'a Quranic scripts much yet, I've merely heard of their discovery and a claim (which I have not yet checked) that the verses are not in the same order as the Quran. Has anyone here looked into it at all?

tinyurl com / SanaaQuranicScripts

(Can't post links yet)

They seem to have more images now than when I first looked a few years ago.

 

[aadil77]

You can take it that way if you wish, but you will be wrong

But seeing as you don't seem to want to admit that reordering chapters is "modifying a book" let's discuss something rather than arguing something (I prefer arguments anyway.)

I've not looked into the Sana'a Quranic scripts much yet, I've merely heard of their discovery and a claim (which I have not yet checked) that the verses are not in the same order as the Quran. Has anyone here looked into it at all?

tinyurl com / SanaaQuranicScripts

(Can't post links yet)

They seem to have more images now than when I first looked a few years ago.

Before you even bring up this topic, I'd recommend you join in on the thread already discussing this

I'll try and find the link

 

[Ramadhan]

You can take it that way if you wish, but you will be wrong

But seeing as you don't seem to want to admit that reordering chapters is "modifying a book" let's discuss something rather than arguing something (I prefer arguments anyway.)

I am still not getting you.

So are you claiming that the qur'an sent by Allah SWT as a complete book, bound, like the bible?
and that the prophet Muhammad SAW changed the order?

I've not looked into the Sana'a Quranic scripts much yet, I've merely heard of their discovery and a claim (which I have not yet checked) that the verses are not in the same order as the Quran. Has anyone here looked into it at all?

Maybe you need to bring your own evidence than relying from a few anti-islamic sites.
That would save you from embarrassment.

 

[aadil77]

Here's the links to the threads: http://www.islamicboard.com/search.php?searchid=164236

have a look at the arguments made and the answers given incase your queries have already been answered

 

[TheRationalizer]

Sorry, I meant that I prefer discussions to arguments.

 

[TheRationalizer]

Okay, found the Sana'a thread, thanks.

 

[TheRationalizer]

By the way. I outlined both why I don't believe and what it would take me to believe. I don't think anyone has yet said what it would take for them to stop believing yet.

 

[Ramadhan]

By the way. I outlined both why I don't believe and what it would take me to believe. I don't think anyone has yet said what it would take for them to stop believing yet

every single particles in this universe is proof to believe.
My own existence is enough evidence to believe.
Since the universe exist, and I exist, I can never stop believing.

 

[TheRationalizer]

every single particles in this universe is proof to believe.
My own existence is enough evidence to believe.
Since the universe exist, and I exist, I can never stop believing.

That's regarding the Deism question, what about the religion question?

 

[aadil77]

By the way. I outlined both why I don't believe and what it would take me to believe. I don't think anyone has yet said what it would take for them to stop believing yet.

It would take quite alot for me to stop believing, I'd have to loose all the faith, contentment, satisfaction I have inside me about islam. I'd have to loose that connection with god, that He listens to my supplication, stops guiding me, providing for me.

 

[TheRationalizer]

It would take quite alot for me to stop believing, I'd have to loose all the faith, contentment, satisfaction I have inside me about islam. I'd have to loose that connection with god, that He listens to my supplication, stops guiding me, providing for me.

Hi Aadil

I can't imagine that contentment and satisfaction alone are enough to keep most people believing in something. I was thinking more along the line of evidence. For example if you died and went to heaven and God said "Islam was fake, but in come come anyway" that would be absolutely conclusive, but what is your minimum requirement?

 

[Ramadhan]

That's regarding the Deism question, what about the religion question?

I cannot see any other religion as complete as Islam, as logical as Islam, and as in line with the nature of man (while addressing and regulating it) as Islam
I do not see any other religious scriptures as error-free, as consistent, as beautiful, as complete guidance as the qur'an
Hence, I do not stop believing

 

[TheRationalizer]

I cannot see any other religion as complete as Islam, as logical as Islam, and as in line with the nature of man (while addressing and regulating it) as Islam
I do not see any other religious scriptures as error-free, as consistent, as beautiful, as complete guidance as the qur'an
Hence, I do not stop believing

I didn't ask what would convert you to a different religion, I asked what would prove to yours that it is false?

 

[Ramadhan]

didn't ask what would convert you to a different religion, I asked what would prove to yours that it is false?

That, our estemeed guest, I have already addressed in my previous post.
Remember, something about the promise of Allah SWT about preserving the Qur'an?
If, there comes a time, when billions of muslims recite and memorise various different versions of the Qur'an, I will stop believing.

 

[TheRationalizer]

That, our estemeed guest, I have already addressed in my previous post.
Remember, something about the promise of Allah SWT about preserving the Qur'an?
If, there comes a time, when billions of muslims recite and memorise various different versions of the Qur'an, I will stop believing.

Hmm no, I don't think you would. It wouldn't be enough to put me off anyway. I'd just think to myself "Allah protected the Quran, those people have made something up for themselves. They haven't corrupted the Quran they have just decided to invent something different" - don't you think?

 

[Ramadhan]

Hmm no, I don't think you would. It wouldn't be enough to put me off anyway. I'd just think to myself "Allah protected the Quran, those people have made something up for themselves. They haven't corrupted the Quran they have just decided to invent something different" - don't you think?

From the time of Rasulullah SWT, until now 1,400 years later, it has not been corrupted.

I have not changed my view and position about it.

Meanwhile, you keep shifting yours.

 

[aadil77]

Hi Aadil

I can't imagine that contentment and satisfaction alone are enough to keep most people believing in something. I was thinking more along the line of evidence. For example if you died and went to heaven and God said "Islam was fake, but in come come anyway" that would be absolutely conclusive, but what is your minimum requirement?

The evidence is all there, it all makes sense to me, I can't really stop believing in that evidence. The only thing left that could remove my belief would be loosing that inner contentment and faith.

Having faith plays the main part in believing.

 

[TheRationalizer]

From the time of Rasulullah SWT, until now 1,400 years later, it has not been corrupted.

I have not changed my view and position about it.

Meanwhile, you keep shifting yours.

Hmm, I am surprised. The reason is that this is something easily achievable by humans. Just get loads of Quran's printed and ship them off to very poor + mostly illiterate places in the world, pay some people to teach the modified versions. After a few decades you'd end up with quite a few people following a modified Quran. That's why it wouldn't be enough for *me*, because the effects are man-made.

I've not shifted my position once, what do you mean?