What Would Jesus (pbuh) Be?

[glo]

Sorry glo, but I hate the 1x1x1=1 thing, it is absolute garbage.

I don't know ... but then I am not a maths teacher ...
I guess that the Father, the Son and the Spirit exist as individual personas - yet form one entity.
Does the above quotation not describe that, you think?

The 1+1+1=3 argument is a very common one (well, it is, when you have been active in an Islamic forum for nearly 4 years), but it just simply doesn't describe God at all.

My honest feeling is that God simply cannot be described in a simple (or even not so simple) mathematical formula.
God is simply greater than that!

*Nerd hat on*
The point is that "person" and God are different categories. God={Father, Son, Spirit} (using set notation) is the best "equation" one can come up, but this set needs to be endowed with a number of relational properties.
*Nerd hat off*

That doesn't sound like maths at all to me.

Anyway, keep that Nerd hat on. It looks like fun!

 

[Predator]

*Nerd hat on*
The point is that "person" and God are different categories. God={Father, Son, Spirit} (using set notation) is the best "equation" one can come up, but this set needs to be endowed with a number of relational properties.
*Nerd hat off*

1+1+1 = 3 and NOT one , but the christian response is

 

[Nathaniel]

1+1+1 = 3 and NOT one , but the christian response is...

OK, Airforce, so what do you mean by the equation "1+1+1=3"?

 

[aadil77]

^;D the whole concept of trinity is laughable

 

[aadil77]

OK, Airforce, so what do you mean by the equation "1+1+1=3"?

he means its 3 gods, not one as it should be in a monotheistic religion

 

[جوري]

a god that forsakes a god that is forsaken and a god that hovers can't all be one in the same.. rather that is a very confused god, and an ineffectual one.. I don't see how such a greek mythology type god, is the same god of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jonah, Enoch, etc.. all the prophets that have come didn't speak of a three headed god, it is a monolithic concept that belongs solely to Christianity and lacks all common sense..

I am always amused at how folks come here and speak of high IQ's and 'science' yet fail to reconcile that with their very illogical fairy tale like beliefs!

 

[Nathaniel]

he means its 3 gods, not one as it should be in a monotheistic religion

So you think that the doctrine of the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son and Spirit are individual Gods?

 

[aadil77]

So you think that the doctrine of the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son and Spirit are individual Gods?

If each of them are worshipped, then aren't they gods?

 

[Predator]

he means its 3 gods, not one as it should be in a monotheistic religion

Even those 3 so called Gods arent equal in nature as Jesus says

My father is greater than me , My father is greater then all and I can of my ownself do nothing John 5:30

"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the
Father." MARK 13:32

So its only the Father who knows the last hour , not even the so called divine SON- Jesus and not even in the angels in heavens.

Even This father also isnt all powerful either as he couldnt drive out the inhabitant of the mountains as they had chariots of iron

JUDGES 1:19

"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the
inhabitants of the mountain; but COULD NOT drive out the
inhabitants of the valley, because they had CHARIOTS OF
IRON."

This verses of Jesus in John 5:30 and Mark 13:32 destroys the concept of trinity - the 3 all knowing and all powerful gods and shows that its nothing but a man-made pagan theory and a lie

 

[mkh4JC]

Even those 3 so called Gods arent equal in nature as Jesus says





So its only the Father who knows the last hour , not even the so called divine SON- Jesus and not even in the angels in heavens.

Even This father also isnt all powerful either as he couldnt drive out the inhabitant of the mountains as they had chariots of iron




This verses of Jesus in John 5:30 and Mark 13:32 destroys the concept of trinity - the 3 all knowing and all powerful gods and shows that its nothing but a man-made pagan theory and a lie

Maybe this will help in answering the issue of when Jesus says his Father is greater than he:

Perhaps more than any other, this verse has been quoted by non-Trinitarians as proof that Jesus could not be true God. In the view of those denying the Trinity, if the Father is "greater" than Jesus, Jesus must be teaching that He is ontologically inferior to the Father. A careful consideration of this verse in context, however, reveals that such a view in untenable.
As Jesus approaches the Cross, He begins to speak more plainly about leaving His disciples and returning to His Father. When the disciples display a self-centered - though natural - response, Jesus reproves them: "If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father." But why should they rejoice when Jesus goes to His Father? Is it because Jesus will be happier there? Or because He will be past His suffering on the Cross? These would be answers we might give a loved one who, upon hearing that we had a terminal illness, cried out, "But what will I do without you?" What we would certainly not say in such a circumstance is: "Rejoice for me that I'm going to God, because God is a superior being than I am." Such a remark would provide little comfort (since obviously God is superior to any created being) and instead would bespeak an intolerable hubris - as though we were so wonderful that our loved ones would actually confuse us for God Himself!. If Jesus' disciples understood Him to be a mere man, or a lesser divinity of some sort, as non-Trinitarians tell us, reprimanding them in this way would would seem almost a non-sequitor. "We know God is a greater being than you are, Master," the disciples could reasonably respond, "but why should we rejoice in such an obvious truth?"

The word translated "greater" (meizon) does not mean greater in the sense of a higher type of being, but rather greater in the sense of position or authority. This is the meaning cited by modern Greek lexicons, and is exampled by dozens of Biblical and extra-Biblical sources (see Grammatical Analysis, below). Jesus repeats the phrase, "A servant is not greater than his Master," twice in this same discourse (John 13:16; 15:20). The same Greek word (meizon) occurs in each of these verses. No one would suggest that a servant is a lesser being than his Master. A Master is "greater" than a servant because he occupies a position of greater status, dignity, and authority. If we let these other examples guide us, Jesus is saying that the Father is "greater" because the Father's position in Heaven is one of greater dignity and authority than the Son occupies on earth. This meaning, then, makes clear why the disciples should rejoice. The Son is returning to the right hand of the Father, to the glory He had with the Father before His existence on earth (John 17:5). He had voluntarily humbled Himself in coming to earth (Philippians 2:6), taking the form of a servant (doulos, the same word Jesus uses in John 13:16 and 15:20). Now Jesus was returning to the Father to regain His former glory, where He could accomplish all the wonderful things promised to the disciples in His final discourse. If the disciples had considered the import of Jesus' words, they would have realized the exaltation that awaited the Son, and would have rejoiced.

Thus, there is little contextual or lexical support for the idea that Jesus is teaching His ontological inferiority to the Father in this verse. He is speaking in the highest terms of the positional greatness of the Father - a position to which Jesus is soon to return, there to be an even greater blessing to the disciples and an assurance of their own paths to Heaven.

In terms of Jesus not knowing the day or hour of his return, that was just an expression of Jesus' humanity. The Bible says that Jesus in the incarnation humbled himself to the will of the Father and one of the ways he humbled himself was that the date of his second coming was withheld from him. I've heard some say that now that he is back sitting at the right hand of God the Father that he does know now.

 

[Santoku]

04-PIG IS THE MOST SHAMELESS ANIMAL

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the earth. It is the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In America, most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say “you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife.” If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs. We look upon America to be very advanced and sophisticated. Whatever they do, we follow after a few years. According to an article in Island magazine, this practice of swapping wives has become common practice in South Asia.


05- PIG IS ONE OF THE FILTHIEST ANIMALS ON EARTH

The pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth. It lives and thrives on muck, feces and dirt. It is the best scavenger that I know that God has produced. In the villages they don’t have modern toilets and the villagers defecate in the open air (Body releases) and Very often these releases are cleared by pigs.

Some may argue that in advanced countries like Australia, pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties. No matter how hard you try to keep them clean they are filthy by nature. They eat and enjoy their own as well as their neighbor's excreta.

Oh boy! do you really believe this tosh?

 

[Predator]

Oh boy! do you really believe this tosh?

Looking at the destruction what the swine flu has done , I do believe that and Thats the reason why God forbid it in the first place in both the Quran and the Bible

Isn’t God merciful to us? When Allah Almighty prohibits (Haram) something for His servants, He does so certainly out of His overflowing mercy on them, to save them from all what may bring them harm; He is indeed Ever-Kind and Most Glorious

And I am happy that God is sending Jesus to annhilate all the pigs in his second coming so that the diseases caused by pigs would be thus destroyed

The article is written by Dr Zakir Naik who was a medical Doctor .

 

[Predator]

Maybe this will help in answering the issue of when Jesus says his Father is greater than he:


In terms of Jesus not knowing the day or hour of his return, that was just an expression of Jesus' humanity. The Bible says that Jesus in the incarnation humbled himself to the will of the Father and one of the ways he humbled himself was that the date of his second coming was withheld from him. I've heard some say that now that he is back sitting at the right hand of God the Father that he does know now.

CHRISTIAN WEBSITE defeating Trinity

Contradictions : The basic problem is that trinitarianism is a nonbiblical doctrine that contradicts a number of biblical teachings and many specific verses of Scripture. Moreover, the doctrine contains a number of internal contradictions. Of course, the most obvious internal contradiction is how there can be three persons of God in any meaningful sense and yet there be only one God. Below we have compiled a number of other contradictions and problems associated with trinitarianism. This list is not exhaustive but it does give an idea of how much the doctrine deviates from the Bible.

1. Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). Which one is the true father? Some trinitarians say that the Holy Ghost was merely the Father's agent in conception - a process they compare to artificial insemination!

2. How many Spirits are there? God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Lord Jesus is a Spirit (II Corinthians 3:17), and the Holy Spirit is a Spirit by definition. Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).

3. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, why did Jesus pray to the Father? (Matthew 11:25). Can God pray to God?

4. Similarly, how can the Son not know as much as the Father? (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).

5. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him? (John 5:19, 30; 6:38).

6. Similarly, what about other verses of Scripture indicating the inequality of the Son and the Father? (John 8:42; 14:28; I Corinthians 11:3).

7. Did "God the Son" die? The Bible says the Son died (Romans 5:10). If so, can God die? Can part of God die?

8. How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning? (John 3:16; Hebrews 1:5-6).

9. If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time? We know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4).

10. Did "God the Son" surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how could he still be God?

11. If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son have an ending? (I Corinthians 15:24-28).

12. If in answer to questions 3 through 11 we say only the human Son of God was limited in knowledge, was limited in power, and died, then how can we speak of "God the Son"? Are there two Sons?

13. Whom do we worship and to whom do we pray? Jesus said to worship the Father (John 4:21-24), yet Stephen prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59-60).

14. Can there be more than three persons in the Godhead? Certainly the Old Testament does not teach three but emphasizes oneness. If the New Testament adds to the Old Testament message and teaches three persons, then what is to prevent subsequent revelations of additional persons? If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16; Colossians 1:3; 2:2; I Thessalonians 3:11; James 1:27). Likewise, we could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons (Revelation 3:1; 5:6).

15. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).

16. There is only one throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Who sits upon it? We know Jesus does (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8). Where do the Father and the Holy Spirit sit?

17. If Jesus is on the throne, how can He sit on the right hand of God? (Mark 16:19). Does He sit or stand on the right hand of God? (Acts 7:55). Or is He in the Father's bosom? (John 1:18).

18. Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says the latter.

19. Given Matthew 28:19, why did the apostles consistently baptize both Jews and Gentiles using the name of Jesus, even to the extent of rebaptism? (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; I Corinthians 1:13).

20. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit? (Romans 8:11).

21. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not? (Luke 12:10).

22. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus? (John 14:26; 15:26).

23. Does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal? Only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ (Mark 13:32).

24. Did the trinity make the Old and New covenants? We know the LORD (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13). If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, and Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17).

25. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, is the Spirit also a son of the Father? If not, why not?

26. If the Spirit proceeds from the Son, is the Spirit the grandson of the Father? If not, why not?

 

[Predator]

I wondering why JESUS ( PBUH ) will kill all pigs around the world ?

I call that a genocide no ?

You have a good example for the mammoth, Allah SWT destroy it, you can found dead body of Mammoth in seberia under the ICE, Allah SWT does not need JESUS ( PBUH ) for the GENOCIDE of that poor PIG.

Poor PIG Killed by the kindest Prophete of ALLAh SWT, do you find that logical ?

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers

Walikum Salaam but He has already killed 2000 pigs to heal one person and that was 2000 years ago ,it wasnt a genocide if it is being hunted for sport and leisure then it is haraam . Jesus never ate Pork .

They are being killed to protect people and Swine flu killed millions died when it came in 1918 and we do not know how many will be killed , we cant afford another swine flu . The Pig is mostly found near the garbae cans and the pig itself is a walking garbage bin and a storehouse of diseases,

The pig rearing will not be banned as that will not be good for the market even at the expense of human lives , so that is why they will be all be killed in his 2nd coming

Allah SWT creat Pigs inf he wants to Destroy all pigs he can do it he does not need the coming of JESUS ( PBUH ) no ?

Yes,but thats the way it is , he send Prophets to do miracles so that people will give them attention and listen to the message .Killing pigs will be just another one of the things that he will do besides Killing Antichrist Dajjal , abolishing tax and correcting the false doctrines

 

[Ramadhan]

Let's go back on topic, fellas.

Jesus pbuh would fast:

The Gospel of Matthew shows that Jesus “fasted forty days and forty nights” (Matthew 4:21). The Gospel of Luke adds the detail that “in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered” (Luke 4:2).

He would expect his followers to fast:
“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

Jesus also gave them instructions on how to fast for the sake of God (Matthew 6:16-18).
The disciples were fasting afterwards: “they had fasted and prayed” (Acts 13:3), and again they had “prayed with fasting” (Acts 14:23).

The disciples were unable to drive out a demon from a boy, but Jesus drove it out. When the disciples asked how he did it, he said that this kind can be driven out only “by prayer and fasting” (Mark 9:29). This shows that because the disciples were not fasting they could not drive out the demon, and, that Jesus could drive it out because he was fasting.

Some copyists attempted to change this verse by leaving out the words ‘and fasting’. This is how, for example, the Revised Standard Version reads. But this reading gives the passage an impossible meaning that Jesus’s disciples were not praying either. This is perhaps why the Catholic Edition of the Revised Standard Version restores the words ‘and fasting’. The New Testament From the Ancient Eastern Text also includes the words ‘and fasting’ (Mark 9:29).

Jesus pbuh said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)

So, who these days still follow Jesus pbuh teaching and fast 40 days a year?
(30 days of ramadhan, day of ashura, 9,10,11 of dzulhidzah etc)?

MUSLIMS do!

 

[Predator]

I do not know why the pig was saved in the Noah's Ark, if Allah SWT wants to destroy it at the End.

Just because an animal exist , doesnt mean that the animal should exist on the plate .The animal is there as a test Everything that Allah SWT has created has some purpose and he knows best .

Sorry my brother I can not imagine how a Prophete JESUS ( PBUH ), will kill Millions of pigs around the world, he will say Bismiallah before kiling them ? or he will kill them savagely.

The last time he prayed and demons went to the pigs and the pigs went and drowned themselves in the sea, maybe he wil do that or he will order the killing of all pigs.

 

[Supreme]

I put more thought into this the other day. Jesus would include women within His preachings as He does in the Bible. He would not give a monkeys about race or religion or class or past sins. His ministry would be directed straight at sinners:

7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' " ... For the Son of Man has come to seek and save the lost.

(Luke 19:7;12)

Indeed. Healthy people don't need a doctor, but the ill. Saved people don't need saving, but the sinners.

 

[Predator]

Assalam aleykoum brother Airforce,


If you beleive of the secong coming of Jesus, you are making a big contradiction with the Qurann, how its possible ?


I will put Insha Allah my explication and the verse.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

No it is not contradiction with the Quran , Jesus PBUH was raised up alive and is coming back at the end of time


The holy Prophet has given the details of the acts which shall be accomplished by I`sa after his descent, as Imam Bukhari has narrated upon the authority of Abu Hurayrahh, that the prophet Muhammad said,

"By He in whose hands my soul rests, Jesus, the Son of Mary, is to descend amongst you as a just ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pig, abolish Jizya and wealth will increase to such an extent that one prostration will be more valuable than the whole world and all that it contains."

 

[Grace Seeker]

I know that christianity faith of man-as-a-god-as-a-man and three-in-one-but-really-is-three requires one hell of a cognitive dissonance exercise, but this logic from you takes the cake.

1. So jesus pbuh clearly in the bible repeatedly told his people to worships only god (he referred to as the father)
2. according to you, Jesus pbuh never told his people to worship him
3. according to you, Jesus pbuh never told his people not to worship him

hence, we must worship Jesus pbuh?

So, can we now go and start worshipping Paul?
After all, Jesus pbuh never told us to worship him but Jesus pbuh also never told us not to worship him. Paul also said to worships god, no? But paul also never told us to worship him or not worship him, no?

You are the one who suggested that since Jesus never said, "Worship me." that it proved something.

I've simply inverted your own argument and suddenly you see the fallacy of it. You are correct, the fact that Jesus never said, "Don't worship me" proves nothing." But likewise the fact that Jesus never said, "Worship me" proves nothing either.


We can however observe that Jesus was in fact worshipped many times in the biblical narrative, and though he said that worship was to be exclusively reserved for God, he still accepted this worship without once telling a person to not worship him. Now, in that context, Jesus' silence on the subject does mean something. It means that it is indeed permissible (at least with Jesus) to worship him. If he is such a good teacher, why would he allow this if it wrong? Answer, he wouldn't. So, either (1) Jesus is NOT a good teacher, or (2) he is a good teacher and it is permissible to worship Jesus.

 

[Grace Seeker]

These are the things Jesus pbuh would do:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt"

{Matthew 26:39}

-Not eating pork (leviticus 11:7, Deuteronomy 14:8)

-Praying from dawn to evening (Psalms 113:3)

-Supplicating with hands raised (1 Kings 8:54, Nehemiah 8:6)

-No alcohol (Luke 1:15)

-Fasting (Matthew 4:2 - 5:6 - 6-16)

-Greetings (all prophets greeted by "peace be upon you (pbuh)!" Translation: "al salamu aleikum" as all muslims of today great each other... John 20:19-21-26, Luke 24:36, Matthew 10:12-13)

-Muslim frequently use the phrase "Insha Allah" (James 4:14-15)

-Charity (Leviticus 27:30-33)

-No interest (psalms 15:5, Exodus 22:25)

-Circumcision (Luke 2:21)

-Woman with veil on her hair (1corinthians 11:6)

-Taking of shoes in holy worship places (exodus 3:5 - Joshua 5:15 - Acts 7-33)

-Ablution before praying (Exodus 40:31-32)

-Following the lunar calendar (Isaiah 66:23)

-Pilgrimage (deuteronomy 12:5-7)


Had Jesus pbuh been among us today, there would be not a shred of doubt that he would be a muslim.
Tell me one christian that does ALL those things that Jesus pbuh did, while I can tell you a billion muslims who do.

Jesus worshipped YAHWEH.

Jesus worshipped in the temple.

Jesus called God by the name "Father".

Name one Muslim who does even one of these things. I wonder what will be the response of the Muslim world when Jesus does return and refers to God as "my Father"?