Who am I to Allah and Jesus?

[Redeemed]

You will find many Christian reverts say that it was after reverting to Islam they became true Christians in the way Allah(swt) wanted. Muslims do have very deep love for Isa(as).

By understanding that he was a true prophet(PBUH), we come to discover that we can love him in the way we were intended to. The truth is so much more beautiful, than the errors. Isa(as) gave the word as to how people should follow Allah(swt), but the people failed to follow what he said and came to worship what was said about him while forgetting to worship Allah(swt)

I can sense a dead end here, because what you say is true according to the Qu'ran but not according to the Bible. We are in an impossible situation here, but with God all things are possible, and He will make a way where there seems to be no way.

 

[Umar001]

I guess what it comes down to is what we believe. If I thought the Bible wasn't true to the spirit of what it states explicitly and implicitly or from what I can infer that Of course there would be no reason to follow it I would probably be agnostic in that case, but I have also believed in God and prayed fro Him to reveal Himself to me some how. What I got was the message I shared. I must have the faith to believe that when I pray to God for a fish that He is not going to give me a serpent and If I ask for bread He will not give me a rock. Jesus said I am the bread of life. If you eat of this bread you will not go hungry. I have tasted and seen that the Lord is good. That is why I do not hungry for anything else. It took faith on my part to experience this. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Those that come to Him must believe that He is and is a rewarded of those who diligently seek Him. I have experience those rewards. That is why I cannot be snatch out of His hand.

If someone wants something bad enough he can make it happen. You believe in the world of demons and spirits which can effect us, yet you rely on your feelings which could be effected, it's your choice to do so, and you can believe till you make yourself believe it's true, but the truth doesn't change.

One can keep drinking from a fountain but when asked why do you drink from that fountain say 'It just feels good' or one can test the fountain to see if it has any hidden defects which although make it taste good make the drinker's ending terrible.

Eesa.

 

[Woodrow]

I can sense a dead end here, because what you say is true according to the Qu'ran but not according to the Bible. We are in an impossible situation here, but with God all things are possible, and He will make a way where there seems to be no way.

Here we see things with opposite views. to me the Bible is a Dead End. Isa(as) was a messenger(PBUH) who came with a beautiful message. But, people chose to ignore the message and came to worship the messenger. as time went on The love of the messenger became the religion and the message was lost.

but with God all things are possible, and He will make a way where there seems to be no way.

Prayer to find the right path is the best choice. We also need to remember that often the answer may not be what we expected or want it to be and may even be alien to our thought.

Sometimes it is hard to see we have found what we were seeking and it is only after we remove our own desires do we see what it is we need.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

I have no trouble agreeing with that!!

pl. explain more . IF u agree that God is ONE and God is greater than all , then why do u worship JESUS (p) ?

If I am mistaken for worshipping Jesus, the worse that could happen to me is that Jesus will tell me not to do that,

----what about the revenge God will take regarding ur own holy Book ? REMEMBER , Bible tells u God is very jealous & WILL take revenge if u take other gods besides HIM>

 

[Redeemed]

If someone wants something bad enough he can make it happen. You believe in the world of demons and spirits which can effect us, yet you rely on your feelings which could be effected, it's your choice to do so, and you can believe till you make yourself believe it's true, but the truth doesn't change.

One can keep drinking from a fountain but when asked why do you drink from that fountain say 'It just feels good' or one can test the fountain to see if it has any hidden defects which although make it taste good make the drinker's ending terrible.

Eesa.

With all due respect, you need to reread what I said. I mentionsed nothing about feelings. I mentioned faith and obedience to what is written in the Bible that says taste and see the the Lord is good. To taste takes faith. I said, "I must have faith that when I cry out to God for a fish and bread that He is not going to give me a serpent and rock." I also said, "without faith we cannot please God." I said nothing about feelings. It is written, "The just live by faith." When i go by faith, it is better than a known path. It is like flying a plane. An instrument rated pilot goes by his instruments not his feelings.

 

[Woodrow]

With all due respect, you need to reread what I said. I mentionsed nothing about feelings. I mentioned faith and obedience to what is written in the Bible that says taste and see the the Lord is good. To taste takes faith. I said, "I must have faith that when I cry out to God for a fish and bread that He is not going to give me a serpent and rock." I also said, "without faith we cannot please God." I said nothing about feelings. It is written, "The just live by faith." When i go by faith, it is better than a known path. It is like flying a plane. An instrument rated pilot goes by his instruments not his feelings.

To taste takes faith. I said, "I must have faith that when I cry out to God for a fish and bread that He is not going to give me a serpent and rock."

I somewhat agree with that. but, I believe Allah(swt) will give me what I need and that may not be what I want. If I ask for a fish and bread, but got a serpent and a rock instead. I would know he gave what was best for me and I would prostrate with gratitude.

 

[MustafaMc]

Isa(as) was a messenger(PBUH) who came with a beautiful message. But, people chose to ignore the message and came to worship the messenger. as time went on The love of the messenger became the religion and the message was lost.

Isn't this what they call a red herring?

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary Main Entry: red herring
Function: noun
1 : a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color
2 [from the practice of drawing a red herring across a trail to confuse hunting dogs] : something that distracts attention from the real issue

 

[Redeemed]

I somewhat agree with that. but, I believe Allah(swt) will give me what I need and that may not be what I want. If I ask for a fish and bread, but got a serpent and a rock instead. I would know he gave what was best for me and I would prostrate with gratitude.

I somewhat agree with you as well. I think I see God in a different way than you. I think of how much my parents love me especially when I was a little baby. When I cried for milk, they wouldn't have given me poison. God loves me way more than my parents could ever do. From what your saying I wouldn't want to be your son. What I mean is receiving false doctrine from God is like getting poison from God. God won't do that. Whatever we get from God is good even if our flesh doesn't like it. The devil would give something evil. If we are not watching out like Jesus said for false prophets, they will definitely suck us in. If we are not praying that God deliver us from evil and lead us not into temptation, we will fall. I can do nothing in my own strength, but I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. All things work together for our good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose even the bad things that happen. What I am saying to you is I trust God, If I am not going in the right direction, He will intervene when He is ready. He will finish the work He started in me. Praise His name.

Peace

 

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by Woodrow
Isa(as) was a messenger(PBUH) who came with a beautiful message. But, people chose to ignore the message and came to worship the messenger. as time went on The love of the messenger became the religion and the message was lost.

I understand why you say this. It is becasue that is what is taught in the Qur'an, but not in the Bible. We give heed to the Bible. And according to that, we are not worshiping a messenger; we are worshiping the message, which is the Word of God.

 

[Redeemed]

We are much like Pilate. We are always
asking, "What is truth?" and then crucifying
the truth that stands before our very eyes.
Thomas Merton {1915-1968}

 

[MustafaMc]

We give heed to the Bible. And according to that, we are not worshiping a messenger; we are worshiping the message, which is the Word of God.

I believe that you have said you worship Jesus. Note how the focus in Christianity is on Jesus (pbuh) and how the focus in Islam is on the One God (swt).

 

[Umar001]

With all due respect, you need to reread what I said. I mentionsed nothing about feelings. I mentioned faith and obedience to what is written in the Bible that says taste and see the the Lord is good. To taste takes faith. I said, "I must have faith that when I cry out to God for a fish and bread that He is not going to give me a serpent and rock." I also said, "without faith we cannot please God." I said nothing about feelings. It is written, "The just live by faith." When i go by faith, it is better than a known path. It is like flying a plane. An instrument rated pilot goes by his instruments not his feelings.

I think you are misunderstanding me, you may not have spoken of the word feeling but your post was clear;

I have tasted and seen that the Lord is good. That is why I do not hungry for anything else.

I have experience those rewards. That is why I cannot be snatch out of His hand.

The two above are plain examples of your feelings, you have tasted the bread and you cannot be snatched out of His hand, this is what you feel, who says that what you tasted was not something that another force at hand could have let you taste in fooling you.

You keep speaking of faith, but anyone says t hey have faith, rather, it is faith which is placed in something secure. A Christian places faith in his scriptures, a Muslim places faith in his scriptures, a Hindu places faith in his scriptures, to be the right ones and to help him understand, are all those people then right because they live by that faith? Certainly not, rather this word you keep using, faith, is only praise worthy when put into something secure.

 

[Redeemed]

I believe that you have said you worship Jesus. Note how the focus in Christianity is on Jesus (pbuh) and how the focus in Islam is on the One God (swt).

We believe that Jesus is the Word of God

 

[Woodrow]

We believe that Jesus is the Word of God

I think I speak for many Muslims when I say "All of the Prophets(PBUT) are the Word of Allah(swt)" they were all used as the means for Allah(swt) to give mankind his clear Word on how to worship him and to stay on the path to Jannah.

the Prophets(PBUT) are all beautiful messengers and in their own right are models of how we should serve.

Serving and worshiping Allah(swt) is the only path to heaven. It is through the Prophets(PBUT) that we are told of how to reach Allah(swt). So in that sense it is very true it is through them we reach Allah(swt). However, it is not them as a person, it is the message that is the Key.

There is always a very strong temptation to praise the Prophets(PBUT) and if a person is not careful, that temptation will lead to worshiping them.

Isa(as) has lead many people to Islam. A strong true Christian often comes to the realization that Isa(as) was teaching mankind to become Muslims (Servants of Allah(swt))

 

[poga]

I can appreciate your views. I imagine this is a very trying time for you. All I can say is to follow the will of Allah(swt) His plans for you will be seen, I am certain you have strong love for Allah(swt) and all you can do is let that love guide you.

I would like to address a few of your comments as how I see them.



You will probably disagree with me on this. but as a Muslim I feel very close to Isa(as) and I do hope I walk on the same path he walked. Isa(as) was very much of a guide to show us the path and truth to Allah(swt) His Adoration of Allah(swt) is beyond reproach and we would do well to follow his guidance.



Isa(as) was a man and as a man he has no power to come and tell you not to do that. However, while he walked the Earth He instructed people to worship Allah(swt). The worse thing that can happen is that you will be placing a man as an equal to Allah(swt) and not worshiping Allah(swt) It may not be a nice task on judgement day to tell Allah(swt) that you did not worship him, but you did worship a man.

BISMILLAH

Mrs Be Aql : Sign of Jonah is he lived throughout his ordeal
And here healer of all could not him self heal
The doctor died on the cross for patients sake
Father the Jesus you speak is the Jesus the fake
Jesus son of Merry
The divine light the Godly glory
He is the light positive that exposes every negative darkness
Say Jesus is RUHALLAH the soul of unequal greatness
He is the man without the father begotten by virgin woman
He is the messenger of ALLAH the guidance for every human

Mr Barzakh : Jesus is the sneeze of Adam what GOD kept in the jar
The unmutilated test tube baby in this mutant SANSAR
He is the organic element from original heavenly Adam
He is the divinity made in the earthly womb
He was all peace so detached him self for hidden jihadic training
The day he returns is the day of rage and reckoning
With the full of fury anger and fear
He will punish the wicked and comfort the sufferer
That will be the day you will witness miracles of Christ
The day every wrong doers will be robbed by the very righteous heist

Dr Humayun : Buddhist Sutra and christian enigma
Hidden years of Jesus life in the land of Brahma
Even then and there
He fought Indian evil cast in the holy war
In the fitting jihad he fought like Muslim
He fought the evil race therefore Brahman and Kshatriya tried to kill him
But the poor Sudra's and rich bikkoos
Rightly guided Brahmans and just Jews
All loved him apart from hated Satan
And most loving heart is heart of an Indian
They sheltered him in the birth place of mother Ganga
There he learned the way of sat chit Sanga
From fourteen up toward his forty
He admired Indian ugliness and Indian beauty

Poga Say's in a foolington maze

Mariam flower the immortal bud
Mariam flower is the botanical mud
Mariam flower that relives the labour pain
Mariam flower that forever remain
Mariam flower which begets the Jesus fruit
The earthly tree with heavenly root
Jesus tree the evergreen
Jesus tree the immortal unseen
Jesus tree the masiha Mahabot
Jesus tree the divinity from earthly Mariam pot
Jesus tree the longest living man
Mentioned in the AL QURAN the divine pen
As Jesus son of marry daughter of Imran
As Jesus prophet of ALLAH the guide for human

 

[Redeemed]

I think I speak for many Muslims when I say "All of the Prophets(PBUT) are the Word of Allah(swt)" they were all used as the means for Allah(swt) to give mankind his clear Word on how to worship him and to stay on the path to Jannah.

the Prophets(PBUT) are all beautiful messengers and in their own right are models of how we should serve.

Serving and worshiping Allah(swt) is the only path to heaven. It is through the Prophets(PBUT) that we are told of how to reach Allah(swt). So in that sense it is very true it is through them we reach Allah(swt). However, it is not them as a person, it is the message that is the Key.

There is always a very strong temptation to praise the Prophets(PBUT) and if a person is not careful, that temptation will lead to worshiping them.

Isa(as) has lead many people to Islam. A strong true Christian often comes to the realization that Isa(as) was teaching mankind to become Muslims (Servants of Allah(swt))

There is a significant difference between being the Word of God that was made flesh and being a spokesman for God. If are saying that Muhammad fits the verse in the Bible that says, "In the beginning was the word. The word was with God and the word was God." I believe that someone who is the Word of God would trump those who are just a spokesman for God. I want to go to the highest source. God wouldn't be anything without His Word. His Word is “Exalted above all His name.” This is why I say the teachings of Islam strengthen my Christianity. If you say you speak for all Muslims about all your prophets being the word of God, I would like you to quote from the Qur’an where. Muhammad didn't write all of it anyway. People wrote down what they remember him saying like the Bible was also written.
Peace

 

[Umar001]

I want to go to the highest source.

The highest should equal the most reliable yet you have still to show that the Bible is reliable, a task you started a thread for a while back.

Muhammad didn't write all of it anyway. People wrote down what they remember him saying like the Bible was also written.
Peace

I will ask you to refrain from making statements which have no basis at all.

I tried to engage with you in the other thread about the reliability of the Bible and its composition but you preached.

Now you state that the compilation of the Qu'ran and the compilation of the Bible is similar.

Have you read anything? I ask you to either back up your statement or retract it, please.

Eesa

 

[Redeemed]

The highest should equal the most reliable yet you have still to show that the Bible is reliable, a task you started a thread for a while back.




I will ask you to refrain from making statements which have no basis at all.

I tried to engage with you in the other thread about the reliability of the Bible and its composition but you preached.

Now you state that the compilation of the Qu'ran and the compilation of the Bible is similar.

Have you read anything? I ask you to either back up your statement or retract it, please.

Eesa

Yes, fair enough. I have been reading up on it. Your right I don't know much about Islam, but I have been learning a lot from you and others like you, but I don't want my information to come from one source mainly this forum. I have learned that the Qur’an is the word of God of Muslims just like the Bible is for the Christians. In modern times, however, "The Qur'an has faced many of the same dilemmas as the Bible (as I have already mentioned). A major issue is the inspiration of the Qur'an. Islamic scholars do not agree as a whole on how the Qur'an came to be true, although conservative Islamic scholars accept it all as literally true." If modern Muslims scholars don’t agree, you could imagine the doubts I would have. I have learned that the Qur'an was written and revealed in Arabic. And I believe that the Muslims as you have mentioned preserved it very carefully even to the point of not accepting any translation like is done to the Bible. Even though the Arabic language is rich and preserved and the reliability in my opinion is without question. In other words, to put it your way, it hasn’t been butcher like the Bible. I do believe this. So you'll get no argument from me there. However, the Qur’an must in my opinion be evaluated for it's validity not just its reliability. The Bible as I have mentioned might have transnational errors, but the spirit of what Jesus and the prophets say through it cannot be put out it is like trying to cover a candle with a box. It can only hide the light for a short time until the box bursts into flames. I believe although there is a night and day difference between the Bible and the Qur’an the Prophet Muhammad got a lot of things from the Old Testament. “The Qur’an came into writing form shortly after Muhammad’s death” (Handbook of today’s religions). All the surahs of the Qur’an had been recorded in writing before the Prophet’s death, and many Muslims had committed the whole Koran to memory. But when the surahs were dispersed among the people; and when in a battle which took place during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr- that is to say, within two years of the Prophet’s death- a large number of those who knew the whole Koran by heart were killed, a collection of the whole Koran was made and put in writing. ...The Koran has thus been very carefully preserved ) Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, trans., The Meaning of the Glorious Koran, New York: Mentor Books, n.d., p xxxviii).
On the origin of the Qur’an, Guillaume comments: from the books of tradition we learn that the prophet was subject to ecstatic seizures. He is reported to have said that when inspiration came to him he felt as it were the painful sounding of a bell. Even in cold weather his forehead was bathed in sweat (Guillaume, op. cit., p 56). The prophet would have his wife wrap him in a veil and he even got visions in his sleep. The veiling of the head and the use of rhymed prose were marks of Arabian soothsayer, while the feeling of physical violence and compulsion, and outward appearance of possession were sometimes recorded by, or observed in, the Hebrew prophets. The Qur’an as we have it now is a record of what Muhammad said while in the state or states just mentioned. It is beyond doubt that his hearers recognized the symptoms of revelation; otherwise his obiter dicta which the literature purports to record would be included in the Qur’an (Guillaume, op. cit., p 56). Mow I know that Jesus sweat drops of blood in Gethsemane the night before His crucifixion but that is understandable. The things that I have been reading about the origins of the Qur’an make me wonder if it is true. If it is, I want to stay in the arms of Christ more than ever. You wanted me to back up what I said, so I am trying to do that. I hope you don't get angry at me for sharing my research.

 

[Woodrow]

There is a significant difference between being the Word of God that was made flesh and being a spokesman for God. If are saying that Muhammad fits the verse in the Bible that says, "In the beginning was the word. The word was with God and the word was God." I believe that someone who is the Word of God would trump those who are just a spokesman for God. I want to go to the highest source. God wouldn't be anything without His Word. His Word is “Exalted above all His name.” This is why I say the teachings of Islam strengthen my Christianity. If you say you speak for all Muslims about all your prophets being the word of God, I would like you to quote from the Qur’an where. Muhammad didn't write all of it anyway. People wrote down what they remember him saying like the Bible was also written.
Peace

If you say you speak for all Muslims about all your prophets being the word of God, I would like you to quote from the Qur’an where.

Peace. I would like to clarify I did not say I speak for all Muslims, I said

I think I speak for many Muslims when I say

.

They are your prophets also, except you do not accept Muhammad.

To understand what I mean by "Word of God(swt)" You can not take it out of context from the rest of the comment.

the Prophets(PBUT) are all beautiful messengers and in their own right are models of how we should serve.

Serving and worshiping Allah(swt) is the only path to heaven. It is through the Prophets(PBUT) that we are told of how to reach Allah(swt). So in that sense it is very true it is through them we reach Allah(swt).

However, it is not them as a person, it is the message that is the Key.

We also want to go to the highest source as you stated you desire to.

I want to go to the highest source.

For that reason we worship who Isa(as) worshiped.

 

[ummzayd]

God wouldn't be anything without His Word.
Peace

I'm not sure how you are justifying or rationalising this statement to yourself but to a Muslim it seems pretty shocking to say "God wouldn't be anything without......".

May God guide those who sincerely seek truth to the truth ameen