Why are you an atheist?

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Where/when did I say that your fiancee will go at it with any random guy or even imply such thing?

He wrote:

hows your Muslim fiance? have you deceived her by saying you are a Muslim?Or you were up straight about atheism?

To which you replied:

I know plenty of women professing to be muslims who are going at it with ANY random guy. I don't think pygo needs to deceive anyone.

You really can't see the implication in that? It is either being implied that she is such a girl, or that I am deceptive.

By the way, can you please answer my questions in post #108 if you don't mind?

I answered your question above.

Now answer one of mine. Do you endorse what CosmicPathos said in the other thread, that he wishes death on all atheists (yes he did write that) and especially on those who criticize Islam? Since he's here in this thread, he can probably state it again for you. If you don't endorse it, then will you publicly agree with me that such death wishes are reprehensible? Will you further agree with me that the actions of your fellow admins and board members joking and making light of this while complaining about cartoons of all things were equally reprehensible?

Or is there truly a muslim tribalism so strong that you are prevented from speaking against a "brother" around a non-muslim?

And yes, I still hold that hateful thread in my mind whenever I visit this forum and it colours my perception of it. Thankfully my fiance and her type of muslims are nothing like that. If not for them I may join in with Sam Harris and others in their views about Islam generally.

I'd like to hear your sincere take on this. Perhaps the decent muslims here were all asleep at the switch in that thread (except for the one, and only one, brave muslim fellow who did react decently).

Then I'll go away again and leave you people in peace.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

well at least the dog's well covered - no cause for concern there

LOL Ok that made me laugh out loud ;D

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

A lot of things are plausible. These theories have been drawn up by actual scientists relying on what little evidence we have though, and not arrived at by "devine revelation" and "faith", both of which are antithetical to science and reason. You probably don't like to hear that answer, but then you did ask the question.

I understand that theories to explain the cause of our existence have been drawn up by scientists, and I would believe in any of those theories if those theories are supported by evidence, but they are not.
Most atheists I know have belief in those theories which are supported by neither evidence nor logic.

Also, you have not answered these questions:

And do you think that this other universe in a multiverse is created or not?

Are you saying that our universe has always existed? ie. never had beginning and will never end?

And I agree with this:

Current science is the best explanation we now have, supported by the most evidence we now have

Only to the extent where the science are actually supported by evidence.
However, atheists extend their belief that current science also explains things of which there is no evidence.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

You really can't see the implication in that? It is either being implied that she is such a girl, or that I am deceptive.

Sorry, but you are over-imagining things, you see purple unicorns when there is none.
I did not say your fiancee go at it with any random men nor did I imply she did. I also did not call you deceptive, and nor did I imply you were.

I answered your question above.

Thank you, but you missed a couple of questions.

Do you endorse what CosmicPathos said in the other thread, that he wishes death on all atheists (yes he did write that) and especially on those who criticize Islam? Since he's here in this thread, he can probably state it again for you. If you don't endorse it, then will you publicly agree with me that such death wishes are reprehensible? Will you further agree with me that the actions of your fellow admins and board members joking and making light of this while complaining about cartoons of all things were equally reprehensible?

I will only discuss on topic, and I have tried to clean up this thread to bring back to on topic discussion only. If you are still not satisfied, please report any post you deem offensive or you may open a new thread asking questions.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Another question for you:

Why is it that atheists never offer another possibility: that our universe and every existence is created?

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Leave the dog alone.

... and his fiance as both are irrelevant to this thread.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I would note that while evolution is our current best scientific theory with the most evidence, it is probably flawed and will probably be adjusted as science progresses, maybe even be replaced. I would also note that you don't have to push evolution to be an atheist.

I would generally agree with this statement, but it is my opinion that 'ToE is a scientific theory' borders on what I would call 'vodoo science' - an oxymoron. Again, I believe that it is more scientifically sound to say, "I don't know how life began or how the various species of living organisms came into existence; however, there is scientific evidence for how changes within species have occurred in response to changes and differences in their environments that may indicate a mechanism by which some similar species may have evolved from a common ancestor." I am not sure that ToE is supported by significant scientific evidence or that it will ever be verifiable.

A lot of things are plausible. These theories have been drawn up by actual scientists relying on what little evidence we have though, and not arrived at by "devine revelation" and "faith", both of which are antithetical to science and reason. You probably don't like to hear that answer, but then you did ask the question.

I disagree with your statement that faith is antithetical (mutually incompatible) with science and reason. I have faith and yet I am open to learning whatever science offers to better understand our material world, but I don't believe that scientists should feel compelled to offer a theory for the origin of life and the various species of life. Rather than speculate on these matters, they should focus on what is subject to the scientific method. Science has no business in dealing with matters of the unseen which includes God, angels, demons, the soul, where we came from and where we are going. These are matters of faith and the only source of knowledge is 'Divine revelation' which atheists discredit straightaway.

Current science is the best explanation we now have, supported by the most evidence we now have.

... and why does it matter that science offers a half-baked theory instead of just saying, "I don't know, but maybe we will come to understand one day"?

 

[جوري]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

can someone change the 2007 thread title from why are you 'a athiest' to an atheist..
jzk.. it is a pet peeve of mine..

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Salaam,

... and his fiance as both are irrelevant to this thread.

I actually like the dog.

Another question for you:

Why is it that atheists never offer another possibility: that our universe and every existence is created?

I just want to know if atheists believe it is possible for life to come from nothing. As Bluebell put it, which came first? The chicken or the egg....

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I will only discuss on topic

So when somebody asks me if I'm deceptive towards my fiance, you feel it appropriate to interject and declare that some women are loose, but then you refuse to respond when specifically asked if you believe that wishing death on atheists is wrong. Not even a quick "ya that is wrong to wish death on people" before moving on and asking your questions, because that's off topic? Got it.

I'm curious how you can go on asking questions when you know your audience is wondering if you want them dead, but I'll answer you one more time.

And do you think that this other universe in a multiverse is created or not?

Are you saying that our universe has always existed? ie. never had beginning and will never end?

I already stated that I didn't pretend to know. It would be nice if we could all be so honest but I know that is too much to ask.

Why is it that atheists never offer another possibility: that our universe and every existence is created?

Actually I think that was a theory going around a few years ago on one of the atheist boards I visited then. One idea was that our universe was created in space alien's lab and is sitting in a jar on a shelf as a failed science experiement or a beta test before moving on. Another was that time and space looped around and that we will create the universe in the distant future on a sub-atomic level. The Matrix is yet another related idea, that reality as we know it is constructed by some sort of artificial intelligence. These are all fun stories, as are the creation myths of religions, but I see no reason to hold them as anything more than that.

I have faith and yet I am open to learning whatever science offers to better understand our material world

Even if the answers science takes us to conflicts with your religious beliefs?

Science has no business in dealing with matters of the unseen which includes God, angels, demons, the soul, where we came from and where we are going.

Science can address all of those things in so far as they make claims involving the physical and observable world. True, we could never use science to disprove the existence of a "higher power" on a "higher plane of existence" etc, but we CAN use science to address things like transubstantiation, the age of the earth, if a global flood took place when claimed, etc.

As for where we came from and where we are going, there is evidence of that around us that can be investigated. Consider Archeology, Astrology (which is really a window into history of the cosmos), Paleantology, carbon dating, Meteorology. We can form theories about what whiped out the dinosaurs. Was it an asteroid or was it bacteria or viruses (as some are now finding evidence for).

And yes, we can form theories as to how the human species came to be on earth. We can contrast it with evidence on neanderthals, and we can build a theory of evolution. Evolution is an interesting theory that if true would explain a lot of otherwise unconnected aspects of biology. It is falsifiable and has not yet been undone. Perhaps you will break new ground and become famous when you are the first to do so. If you do, then we'll have to find a better theory, test that, and move on.

As for science addressing Gods, Angels, Demons, etc, it can do so in so much as claims are made about how they interact with the physical and observable world. It is true that science will never disprove that some "higher being" could exist on some higher plane of existence we can't measure, but science CAN address specific claims such as transubtantiation, the age of the approximate age of the earth, etc.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I actually like the dog.

His name is Cody, and he loves everybody and everything. He doesn't judge and just wants to cuddle, run around and play or eat a cookie. I think we could all learn a lot from our dogs.

I just want to know if atheists believe it is possible for life to come from nothing. As Bluebell put it, which came first? The chicken or the egg....

Can life come from nothing? I don't know. Laurence Krauss thinks so. Lots of religions think so. I'm not really sure one way or the other.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

At the end of the day the answer to "why are we atheists" is because we have no convinceing reason to be otherwise. It is the same reason as why we are not astrologists.

 

[Who Am I?]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

can someone change the 2007 thread title from why are you 'a athiest' to an atheist..
jzk.. it is a pet peeve of mine..

Yeeeeeeeeeesss.... another Grammar Nazi. Join the Dark Side... ;D

His name is Cody, and he loves everybody and everything. He doesn't judge and just wants to cuddle, run around and play or eat a cookie. I think we could all learn a lot from our dogs.

This. The more I get to know some people, the more I love my dogs. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

This. The more I get to know some people, the more I love my dogs. That's all I have to say about that.

why is that?

I've read somewhere that by looking at a dog and its behavior, you can judge the mentality of its owner. If the dog is angry and irritable, it very much means its owner is a miserable person. Is there any truth to that?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I already stated that I didn't pretend to know. It would be nice if we could all be so honest but I know that is too much to ask.

But you believe that they are possible. I just want to know the why and the how you believe such things.
You seem to always chastise us people of faith and tell us that we do not use reason, and now you seem to also do the same thing with respect to the origin of everything.

Actually I think that was a theory going around a few years ago on one of the atheist boards I visited then. One idea was that our universe was created in space alien's lab and is sitting in a jar on a shelf as a failed science experiement or a beta test before moving on. Another was that time and space looped around and that we will create the universe in the distant future on a sub-atomic level. The Matrix is yet another related idea, that reality as we know it is constructed by some sort of artificial intelligence. These are all fun stories, as are the creation myths of religions, but I see no reason to hold them as anything more than that.

I agree with you that those stories are fantastic, and have no sound basis in logic and reasoning.

But I am intrigued that no atheist is willing to challenge the idea of One creator in Islam. Can you please explain to us what is wrong with the most basic, fundamental idea of One creator in Islam? and I am not talking about Islamic teachings, angels, etc, I am talking about the ACTUAL Islamic principle of tawheed (one godhood). Can you please point out the flaw (like I have pointed out at the flaws of your proposed theories with multiverses, eternal universe, universe in a lab jar, by asking questions about them etc).

Also, you missed this question:

Why is it that atheists never offer another possibility: that our universe and every existence is created?

I understand that many atheists have these wild fantasies like you wrote above about our universe in a lab jar, but you and I know those are childish fantasies that somehow strangely remain in the psyche of many atheists when they grow up.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

But you believe that they are possible. I just want to know the why and the how you believe such things.
You seem to always chastise us people of faith and tell us that we do not use reason

Possible yes. Not "revealed truth".

But I am intrigued that no atheist is willing to challenge the idea of One creator in Islam. Can you please explain to us what is wrong with the most basic, fundamental idea of One creator in Islam?

You can answer that yourself:

those stories are fantastic, and have no sound basis in logic and reasoning.

Sure, it MAY be possible, but so may the other theories I noted, so may the creation myths of other incompatible religions and cultures.

Can you please point out the flaw (like I have pointed out at the flaws of your proposed theories with multiverses, eternal universe, universe in a lab jar, by asking questions about them etc).

You didn't point out any flaws. And if we design the theories to be not falsifiable (as is the "one creator in Islam"), you'll never be able to disprove them. Atheists see your beliefs exactly the same way you see these other theories. Now if on the other hand we start making specific material claims from these theories then we can falsify those claims, things like transubstantiation (does the cracker actually become flesh at any point?) or the age of the earth or if there was a global flood, etc.

I understand that many atheists have these wild fantasies like you wrote above about our universe in a lab jar, but you and I know those are childish fantasies that somehow strangely remain in the psyche of many atheists when they grow up.

Do you actually think these atheists hold to these fantasies in the same way that you hold to yours? The guy who invented the universe in a jar theory was a fiction writer, the guy who made the matrix movie was a movie producer. Both are just fun fantasy ideas. They don't hold these out as "revealed truths".

 

[Who Am I?]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

why is that?

I've read somewhere that by looking at a dog and its behavior, you can judge the mentality of its owner. If the dog is angry and irritable, it very much means its owner is a miserable person. Is there any truth to that?

Well, let me put it to you this way. When I come home after a long day at work dealing with angry customers and co-workers who make questionable decisions, my dogs are always glad to see me. They greet me eagerly, wagging their tails and barking with delight. It makes me prefer their company sometimes to that of other people.

As for my dogs' personality, I must be doing OK there, because my dogs are big goofy puppies. They're not mean and they love attention from anyone.

 

[CosmicPathos]

^^ I was never a dog person, considering in general how Islam looks at them, so I have sort of "disgust" towards them. I feel awkward if a dog touches my clothes in elevator or something.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

psychocelis: you have not presented a convincing evidence for atheism. You talk against murder and what not. I dont believe in your morality (or any morality) for the same reason you dont believe in my God. Both are unseen and both are unknowable.

 

[Ramadhan]

Brothers, please stay on topic.
I will have to delete any posts about dogs or fiancees if they come up next.