Karina
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Why are you an atheist?
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
Maybe not to you, but you don't exactly epitomise the understanding of every human in this planet...
In other words, the problems Pygoscelis had with Christianity might very well not exist in Islam.
The lamest thing is that the Big Bang isn't proof against God at all. I think it is sad the way so many people rely on it to show that there is no God, even physics book don't make such a conclusion!
Maybe not to you, but you don't exactly epitomise the understanding of every human in this planet...
In other words, the problems Pygoscelis had with Christianity might very well not exist in Islam.
The lamest thing is that the Big Bang isn't proof against God at all. I think it is sad the way so many people rely on it to show that there is no God, even physics book don't make such a conclusion!
DAWUD_adnan
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
big Bang?
When describing the creation of the "heavens and the earth," the Qur'an does not discount the theory of a "Big Bang" explosion at the start of it all. In fact, the Qur'an says that "the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit, before We clove them asunder" (21:30). Following this big explosion, Allah "turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth: 'Come together, willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We come (together) in willing obedience'" (41:11). Thus the elements and what was to become the planets and stars began to cool, come together, and form into shape, following the natural laws that Allah established in the universe.
The Qur'an further states that Allah created the sun, the moon, and the planets, each with their own individual courses or orbits. "It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course" (21:33).
Expansion of Universe
The Qur'an also does not rule out the idea that the universe is continuing to expand. "The heavens, We have built them with power. And verily, We are expanding it" (51:47). There has been some historical debate among Muslim scholars about the precise meaning of this verse, since knowledge of the universe's expansion was only recently discovered.
Six Days?
The Qur'an states that "Allah created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six days" (7:54). While on the surface this might seem similar to the account related in the Bible, there are some important distinctions.
The verses that mention "six days" use the Arabic word "youm" (day). This word appears several other times in the Qur'an, each denoting a different measurement of time. In one case, the measure of a day is equated with 50,000 years (70:4), whereas another verse states that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning" (22:47). The word "youm" is thus understood, within the Qur'an, to be a long period of time -- an era or eon. Therefore, Muslims interpret the description of a "six day" creation as six distinct periods or eons. The length of these periods is not precisely defined, nor are the specific developments that took place during each period.
And as anyone knows science has shown that the universe was in six different stages before it turned in to the beauty we see today.
After completing the Creation, the Qur'an describes that Allah "settled Himself upon the Throne" (57:4) to oversee His work. A distinct point is made to counter the Biblical idea of a day of rest: "We created the heavens and the earth adn all that is between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us" (50:38).
Allah is never "done" with His work, because the process of creation is ongoing. Each new child who is born, every seed that sprouts into a sapling, every new species that appears on earth, is part of the ongoing process of Allah's creation. "He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then established Himself on the Throne. He knows what enters within the heart of the earth, and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven, and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wherever you may be. And Allah sees well all that you do" (57:4).
Life Came From Water
The Qur'an describes that Allah "made from water every living thing" (21:30).
Another verse describes how "Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills, for truly Allah has power over all things" (24:45). These verses support the scientific theory that life began in the Earth's oceans.
show me any other book which says something like this. you will not find it
there is not any religious book on earth that contains such details, all other religions fail. which is why this is the Word of Allah(One True God).
.Most Merciful to you eventhough you deny his existence, He lets you grow he feeds you He gave hearing, sight, smell, touch and intelligence and yet you dont use it.
if you see a camel's foot print in the dessert would you say that it came by itself? the answer is NO, then what about the universe and these verses of truth given to you?
you should know that what islam makes different from religions around the world is, that it is not just a religion but a way of life, natural life, thus muslims are in harmony with nature, like the earth as it moves around the sun and the moon as it orbits around th earth, you will see muslims ''orbiting'' the ka'ba, when muslims pray the bow down their heads like the heads of flowers etc, may Allah(The One and Only True God) save you and forgive you.
Ameen
big Bang?
When describing the creation of the "heavens and the earth," the Qur'an does not discount the theory of a "Big Bang" explosion at the start of it all. In fact, the Qur'an says that "the heavens and the earth were joined together as one unit, before We clove them asunder" (21:30). Following this big explosion, Allah "turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke. He said to it and to the earth: 'Come together, willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We come (together) in willing obedience'" (41:11). Thus the elements and what was to become the planets and stars began to cool, come together, and form into shape, following the natural laws that Allah established in the universe.
The Qur'an further states that Allah created the sun, the moon, and the planets, each with their own individual courses or orbits. "It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon; all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course" (21:33).
Expansion of Universe
The Qur'an also does not rule out the idea that the universe is continuing to expand. "The heavens, We have built them with power. And verily, We are expanding it" (51:47). There has been some historical debate among Muslim scholars about the precise meaning of this verse, since knowledge of the universe's expansion was only recently discovered.
Six Days?
The Qur'an states that "Allah created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six days" (7:54). While on the surface this might seem similar to the account related in the Bible, there are some important distinctions.
The verses that mention "six days" use the Arabic word "youm" (day). This word appears several other times in the Qur'an, each denoting a different measurement of time. In one case, the measure of a day is equated with 50,000 years (70:4), whereas another verse states that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning" (22:47). The word "youm" is thus understood, within the Qur'an, to be a long period of time -- an era or eon. Therefore, Muslims interpret the description of a "six day" creation as six distinct periods or eons. The length of these periods is not precisely defined, nor are the specific developments that took place during each period.
And as anyone knows science has shown that the universe was in six different stages before it turned in to the beauty we see today.
After completing the Creation, the Qur'an describes that Allah "settled Himself upon the Throne" (57:4) to oversee His work. A distinct point is made to counter the Biblical idea of a day of rest: "We created the heavens and the earth adn all that is between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us" (50:38).
Allah is never "done" with His work, because the process of creation is ongoing. Each new child who is born, every seed that sprouts into a sapling, every new species that appears on earth, is part of the ongoing process of Allah's creation. "He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then established Himself on the Throne. He knows what enters within the heart of the earth, and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven, and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wherever you may be. And Allah sees well all that you do" (57:4).
Life Came From Water
The Qur'an describes that Allah "made from water every living thing" (21:30).
Another verse describes how "Allah has created every animal from water. Of them are some that creep on their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills, for truly Allah has power over all things" (24:45). These verses support the scientific theory that life began in the Earth's oceans.
show me any other book which says something like this. you will not find it
there is not any religious book on earth that contains such details, all other religions fail. which is why this is the Word of Allah(One True God).
.Most Merciful to you eventhough you deny his existence, He lets you grow he feeds you He gave hearing, sight, smell, touch and intelligence and yet you dont use it.
if you see a camel's foot print in the dessert would you say that it came by itself? the answer is NO, then what about the universe and these verses of truth given to you?
you should know that what islam makes different from religions around the world is, that it is not just a religion but a way of life, natural life, thus muslims are in harmony with nature, like the earth as it moves around the sun and the moon as it orbits around th earth, you will see muslims ''orbiting'' the ka'ba, when muslims pray the bow down their heads like the heads of flowers etc, may Allah(The One and Only True God) save you and forgive you.
Ameen
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Pygoscelis
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
I'm not aware of anybody using the Big Bang to attempt to disprove God. The only proof I need against the idea of a God is the lack of evidence for one. Theories of the universe don't come into the equation at all.
I'm not aware of anybody using the Big Bang to attempt to disprove God. The only proof I need against the idea of a God is the lack of evidence for one. Theories of the universe don't come into the equation at all.
Trumble
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
Of course I don't, but I suspect
is unlikely.
For some reason best known to himself DAWUD_adnan asked me to list the differences, but what is important here is the similarities. The biggest, indeed probably the only, significant issue to an atheist (as opposed, perhaps, to an agnostic) is common to both... the assumed existence of God. Anything else is just window dressing.
It is not the business of physics books to offer proofs of the existence or non-existence of God! The Big Bang, to my knowledge, isn't used in that way at all. What it may be used for is to demonstrate a possible, God-free, alternative to the creation of the universe although the argumenta are a lot more complex (and unconclusive) than that on both sides, of course.
Of course I don't, but I suspect
is unlikely.
For some reason best known to himself DAWUD_adnan asked me to list the differences, but what is important here is the similarities. The biggest, indeed probably the only, significant issue to an atheist (as opposed, perhaps, to an agnostic) is common to both... the assumed existence of God. Anything else is just window dressing.
It is not the business of physics books to offer proofs of the existence or non-existence of God! The Big Bang, to my knowledge, isn't used in that way at all. What it may be used for is to demonstrate a possible, God-free, alternative to the creation of the universe although the argumenta are a lot more complex (and unconclusive) than that on both sides, of course.
Re: why are you a Athiest?
When people don’t understand something, they say it is the hand of the gods. This has been going on for thousands of years.
I have an example:
Presume the universe started at time 1 and now we are at time 10
At time 6 people said “god created everything”
At time 7 people said “god created everything but evolution started at time 4”
At time 8 people said “god created everything but evolution started at time 3”
At time 9 people said “god created everything but evolution started at time 2”
Eventually we will reach time 20 and everybody will agree evolution started at time 1.
deen_2007 said:
When people don’t understand something, they say it is the hand of the gods. This has been going on for thousands of years.
I have an example:
Presume the universe started at time 1 and now we are at time 10
At time 6 people said “god created everything”
At time 7 people said “god created everything but evolution started at time 4”
At time 8 people said “god created everything but evolution started at time 3”
At time 9 people said “god created everything but evolution started at time 2”
Eventually we will reach time 20 and everybody will agree evolution started at time 1.
Re: why are you a Athiest?
Asalam
I dont know if I was ex Christian, I think I was more on ex Atheist
Okay if I was ex Atheist it is because I had many doubts about Christianity like worshipping saints etc
to summarize it is like I better be atheist than to worship an idol.
Asalam
I dont know if I was ex Christian, I think I was more on ex Atheist
Okay if I was ex Atheist it is because I had many doubts about Christianity like worshipping saints etc
to summarize it is like I better be atheist than to worship an idol.
Burninglight
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
I believe in the BIG Bang and I am not an atheist. I believe God spoke it, and Bang it happened!
:statisfie
I believe in the BIG Bang and I am not an atheist. I believe God spoke it, and Bang it happened!
:statisfie
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
I became an atheist for a time largely because of my own self-hatred. My reasoning was that God could not have created me, because I thought that I was such a bad person. Therefore, God must not have existed.
I became an atheist for a time largely because of my own self-hatred. My reasoning was that God could not have created me, because I thought that I was such a bad person. Therefore, God must not have existed.
atheistbynature
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
This is quite an old thread now but since i'm new...
I have never really been religious, and I haven't believed in god since I was about 9. I became interested in the religious debate through Richard Dawkin's (your favourite person I'm sure) book and I started looking into religions and doing a bit of debating online.
I find it interesting to listen to how sure most religious people are since I don't see any reason to believe it myself.
So the reasons I don't believe are:
Thanks for reading.
This is quite an old thread now but since i'm new...
I have never really been religious, and I haven't believed in god since I was about 9. I became interested in the religious debate through Richard Dawkin's (your favourite person I'm sure) book and I started looking into religions and doing a bit of debating online.
I find it interesting to listen to how sure most religious people are since I don't see any reason to believe it myself.
So the reasons I don't believe are:
- I is an unlikely claim
- It has at best weak evidence
- The claim of most religions that there is a loving, just god that tortures people for their beliefs is self contradictory
Thanks for reading.
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
Actually, I for one am very much interested to know why you don't think that there is a God. I have a friend of mine who is agnostic as well and we sometimes debate this topic. I used to be an atheist myself for a time.
If you don't want to talk about it here, we can do it through email.
This is quite an old thread now but since i'm new...
I have never really been religious, and I haven't believed in god since I was about 9. I became interested in the religious debate through Richard Dawkin's (your favourite person I'm sure) book and I started looking into religions and doing a bit of debating online.
I find it interesting to listen to how sure most religious people are since I don't see any reason to believe it myself.
So the reasons I don't believe are:
Please bear in mind that I am not 100% sure there is no god (call me agnostic if you want) and convincing me there is a god is a long way from convincing me that any specific religion is correct.
- I is an unlikely claim
- It has at best weak evidence
- The claim of most religions that there is a loving, just god that tortures people for their beliefs is self contradictory
Thanks for reading.
Actually, I for one am very much interested to know why you don't think that there is a God. I have a friend of mine who is agnostic as well and we sometimes debate this topic. I used to be an atheist myself for a time.
If you don't want to talk about it here, we can do it through email.
atheistbynature
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
I didn't say I didn't want to talk about it, sorry if I wasn't clear.
My reasons are as I gave above really, I'm very open to debate if you disagree with any of my points. As I said I don't claim to know 100% there is no god, I just treat atheism (or agnosticism doesn't make a difference to me) as the default positions.
I would also like to know why you believe there is a god, specifically the one of Islam.
Thanks.
I didn't say I didn't want to talk about it, sorry if I wasn't clear.
My reasons are as I gave above really, I'm very open to debate if you disagree with any of my points. As I said I don't claim to know 100% there is no god, I just treat atheism (or agnosticism doesn't make a difference to me) as the default positions.
I would also like to know why you believe there is a god, specifically the one of Islam.
Thanks.
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
I'll get back to this when I have more time, brother. I do want to discuss this, but my time is limited right now.
I'll get back to this when I have more time, brother. I do want to discuss this, but my time is limited right now.
Burninglight
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
If something exists now, something has had to have always existedThis is quite an old thread now but since i'm new...
I have never really been religious, and I haven't believed in god since I was about 9. I became interested in the religious debate through Richard Dawkin's (your favourite person I'm sure) book and I started looking into religions and doing a bit of debating online.
I find it interesting to listen to how sure most religious people are since I don't see any reason to believe it myself.
So the reasons I don't believe are:
Please bear in mind that I am not 100% sure there is no god (call me agnostic if you want) and convincing me there is a god is a long way from convincing me that any specific religion is correct.
- I is an unlikely claim
- It has at best weak evidence
- The claim of most religions that there is a loving, just god that tortures people for their beliefs is self contradictory
Thanks for reading.
atheistbynature
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
Thanks for the reply.
This is a weak argument for a deistic god (or infact just something eternal). I'm not convinced that this commonly made statement is justified, but even if it is, it would still leave me closer to atheism that believing in a personal god that can read my thoughts (let alone the Christian one).
Must be something eternal =/= Jesus is the son of god.
Thanks for the reply.
This is a weak argument for a deistic god (or infact just something eternal). I'm not convinced that this commonly made statement is justified, but even if it is, it would still leave me closer to atheism that believing in a personal god that can read my thoughts (let alone the Christian one).
Must be something eternal =/= Jesus is the son of god.
Burninglight
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
It also states that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God Jn 1:1 The Bible also says the fool says in His heart there is NO God, and that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish, but to us, it is the power of God (His word) I believe all things are held together by the power of His word. There is only one God and he is real. Just between Christians, Jews and Muslims make up most of the worlds population and we tell you God is real and he is one. The Lord our God is one! If you want to know who he is, He is I AM that I AM!
Well, the Bible says the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows His handy work. It states that all things are held together by the word of His power, It is interesting that scientist don't fully understand what holds all the atoms together that makes up matter. Christians believe that Jesus is the word that God spoke all into existence seen and unseen. That is why the Bible says all things were made by Him through Him and for Him.
It also states that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God Jn 1:1 The Bible also says the fool says in His heart there is NO God, and that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that perish, but to us, it is the power of God (His word) I believe all things are held together by the power of His word. There is only one God and he is real. Just between Christians, Jews and Muslims make up most of the worlds population and we tell you God is real and he is one. The Lord our God is one! If you want to know who he is, He is I AM that I AM!
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atheistbynature
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
I'm sure you know you can't use the bible to justify the bible, so i'm going to ignore the bible quotes.
Scientists have a good and ever increasing knowledge of the attraction between atoms (via the electromagnetic force etc) but this is god of the gaps, most gaps throughout history have been filled (rainbows, diversity of life, disease) so I would suggest not resting on the remaining gaps they might disappear...
Truth is not decided by a vote. Religion is an appealing concept and transfers very effectively to the next generation of vulnerable minds.
As I said in my original post, weak arguments are not enough because you are saying that it is so certain that he exists, it is right to send people to hell that don't believe.
I'm sure you know you can't use the bible to justify the bible, so i'm going to ignore the bible quotes.
Scientists have a good and ever increasing knowledge of the attraction between atoms (via the electromagnetic force etc) but this is god of the gaps, most gaps throughout history have been filled (rainbows, diversity of life, disease) so I would suggest not resting on the remaining gaps they might disappear...
Truth is not decided by a vote. Religion is an appealing concept and transfers very effectively to the next generation of vulnerable minds.
As I said in my original post, weak arguments are not enough because you are saying that it is so certain that he exists, it is right to send people to hell that don't believe.
CosmicPathos
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
ohoo, hold your horses. Dont be so sure of yourself, much like how you dont understand how theists can be so sure.
Most importantly, you are confusing arguments. On one hand you are questioning if God exists or not, while at the same time you are throwing out the argument that God is Maniac for throwing ppl in Hellfire for disbelief. This argument assumes that God exists, while your first statements says you are not sure if God exists or not.
So are you confused about your position? What EXACTLY is your position?
Seems you have much to learn in logic, argumentation and criticism. This will be fun pawning you.
ohoo, hold your horses. Dont be so sure of yourself, much like how you dont understand how theists can be so sure.
Most importantly, you are confusing arguments. On one hand you are questioning if God exists or not, while at the same time you are throwing out the argument that God is Maniac for throwing ppl in Hellfire for disbelief. This argument assumes that God exists, while your first statements says you are not sure if God exists or not.
So are you confused about your position? What EXACTLY is your position?
Seems you have much to learn in logic, argumentation and criticism. This will be fun pawning you.
Burninglight
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Re: why are you a Athiest?
eltromagnetic force is used to describe atoms holding together, but it is still in theory. For the time being we have to admit that we do not possess any general theoretical basis for physics which can be regarded as its logical foundation. (Albert Einstein, 1940) Reality from only one substance existing, as Leibniz wrote;
'Reality cannot be found except in One single source, because of the interconnection of all things with one another'.
Given we all experience many minds and many material things, but always in one common Space, we are thus required to describe physical reality in terms of Space. We then find there is only one solution, a Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) where the electron is a spherical standing wave. Electomagnetic force is still being understood; BTW, Scientist cannot even figure out how a bee flies. Yes, they have theories, but the truth is for its size an weight and small wing structure it is an impossibility yet they fly.
Imo, You sound more like an atheist than agnostic trying to convince me there is no God. The logical foundation and the interconnection of all things with one another and reality that can be found in a single source is God's Word, but scientist will never admit that because it is not scientific enough. Did you know the universe is exspanding more and more it is actually growing as if it is not big enough?
I believe the exspanding universe is awesome. If it keeps expanding the Milky Way is going to be replaced with Snickers and Mars bars. Let tell something four scientist got together and decided to tell God they didn't need Him anymore. When they told God that, God said, "Why not?" They said, "Because everything you can do we can too. We can create life" God said, "Let me see you do that" The scientist grabed a hand full of dirt from the ground, and God stop them saying, "Hold on there. Get your own dirt"
Man can take a seed and make a dupilcate with the same composition and elements exactly. They can plant it with a natural seed. One will grow but the other won't!
God is awesome!
eltromagnetic force is used to describe atoms holding together, but it is still in theory. For the time being we have to admit that we do not possess any general theoretical basis for physics which can be regarded as its logical foundation. (Albert Einstein, 1940) Reality from only one substance existing, as Leibniz wrote;
'Reality cannot be found except in One single source, because of the interconnection of all things with one another'.
Given we all experience many minds and many material things, but always in one common Space, we are thus required to describe physical reality in terms of Space. We then find there is only one solution, a Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) where the electron is a spherical standing wave. Electomagnetic force is still being understood; BTW, Scientist cannot even figure out how a bee flies. Yes, they have theories, but the truth is for its size an weight and small wing structure it is an impossibility yet they fly.
Imo, You sound more like an atheist than agnostic trying to convince me there is no God. The logical foundation and the interconnection of all things with one another and reality that can be found in a single source is God's Word, but scientist will never admit that because it is not scientific enough. Did you know the universe is exspanding more and more it is actually growing as if it is not big enough?
I believe the exspanding universe is awesome. If it keeps expanding the Milky Way is going to be replaced with Snickers and Mars bars. Let tell something four scientist got together and decided to tell God they didn't need Him anymore. When they told God that, God said, "Why not?" They said, "Because everything you can do we can too. We can create life" God said, "Let me see you do that" The scientist grabed a hand full of dirt from the ground, and God stop them saying, "Hold on there. Get your own dirt"
Man can take a seed and make a dupilcate with the same composition and elements exactly. They can plant it with a natural seed. One will grow but the other won't!
God is awesome!
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