Why are you an atheist?

[CosmicPathos]

bro, you are being very uptight about this.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Even if the answers science takes us to conflicts with your religious beliefs?

Yes, for one thing religious texts including the Quran use metaphors, parables and alegory that may be lost when taken literally. For example, to say that the universe was created in six days (24-hour periods) is clearly an allegory. I have been to the Grand Canyon and seen the layers in the canyon walls that surely were laid down over a very extended period of time. I think of ayat 3:7 He it is Who has sent down to you the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental; they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

As for where we came from and where we are going, there is evidence of that around us that can be investigated. Consider Archeology, Astrology (which is really a window into history of the cosmos), Paleantology, carbon dating, Meteorology. We can form theories about what whiped out the dinosaurs. Was it an asteroid or was it bacteria or viruses (as some are now finding evidence for).

No, there is no verifiable evidence for where we came from and there is no way to verify if there is life after death or if we merely cease to exist. Yes, those are examples of science except for 'astrology' which I think you meant to write astronomy. I think dinosaurs are cool. What if we could have a real 'Jurassic Park'? Pondering on what caused them to become extinct can be interesting in the same manner we can ponder on what caused the collapse of the Mayan civilization.

And yes, we can form theories as to how the human species came to be on earth. We can contrast it with evidence on neanderthals, and we can build a theory of evolution. Evolution is an interesting theory that if true would explain a lot of otherwise unconnected aspects of biology.

You are making a huge leap in going from Neanderthal Man supposedly evolving into modern man (which could be considered micro evolution) all the way ToE in toto which says all species of life evolved from a 'Common Ancestor', presumably unicellular and prokaryotic. If someone could present a logical scientifically sound theory that explains the origin of life and the species of life, I would certainly be interested in exploring it. It is interesting to me that I have the same disgust for ToE as you seem to have for all things religious.

science CAN address specific claims such as transubtantiation, the age of the approximate age of the earth, etc.

I agree that the Eucharist is not scientifically sound and it would be really gross if it was; however, metaphorically it has meaning for Christians. I agree that the universe was not created in 6 literal days as we know a 'day'.

 

[جوري]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

both are unknowable.

I don't believe God is unknowable given we're all born in the state of fitrah.. in fact so show their studies..

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Possible yes. Not "revealed truth".

Can you please tell me why "revealed truth" is such an impossibility?

Sure, it MAY be possible, but so may the other theories I noted, so may the creation myths of other incompatible religions and cultures.

Can you please tell me why the truth according to Islam is such an impossibility?

You didn't point out any flaws. And if we design the theories to be not falsifiable (as is the "one creator in Islam"), you'll never be able to disprove them. Atheists see your beliefs exactly the same way you see these other theories. Now if on the other hand we start making specific material claims from these theories then we can falsify those claims, things like transubstantiation (does the cracker actually become flesh at any point?) or the age of the earth or if there was a global flood, etc.

There's specific materials claims in Islam, for example this:
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (QS. 15:9)

Also, I did point to such flaws to your theories because you were not able to answer my next questions: what was the cause of the multiverses, etc etc.
Instead of saying "I Don't know", atheists have been creating many theories and are indulging themselves in these fantasies and thinking they might be true, which is an irony (to say the least) because the claim they reject outright in any theories which are not provable.

Do you actually think these atheists hold to these fantasies in the same way that you hold to yours? The guy who invented the universe in a jar theory was a fiction writer, the guy who made the matrix movie was a movie producer. Both are just fun fantasy ideas. They don't hold these out as "revealed truths".

Some atheists do believe in multiverses and eternal universe while rejecting outright that existence was created by supreme being outside of creation. You will also be surprised to know how many atheists believe in the truth of matrix and universe as a lab experiment.

Again, I am asking you:
why do you believe that "revealed truth" is an impossibility?

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I don't believe God is unknowable given we're all born in the state of fitrah.. in fact so show their studies..

unknowable for those with sealed hearts.

since I have to reply back to psygocelis in his own language, had to say that.

 

[جوري]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

unknowable for those with sealed hearts.

since I have to reply back to psygocelis in his own language, had to say that.

It is their privilege to turn away from what's right in front of their eyes by the truck load.. I personally wouldn't humor it..

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

This is what I asked:

Can you please explain to us what is wrong with the most basic, fundamental idea of One creator in Islam? and I am not talking about Islamic teachings, angels, etc, I am talking about the ACTUAL Islamic principle of tawheed (one godhood).

And you did not really reply.
I did not ask you to prove or disprove material evidence of Godhood according to Islam.
I asked you to tell me where is the flaw in the principle of Godhood according to Islam.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

At the end of the day the answer to "why are we atheists" is because we have no convinceing reason to be otherwise.

Strange but this brought to mind was a quote from the Executive Summary of the 9/11 Commision Report, "The most important failure was one of imagination. We do not believe leaders understood the gravity of the threat." It seems that atheists start with the supposition that 'God does not exist' and thereby eliminate the possibility of a Creator being responsible for all that exists. I see a painting of a Victorian house on my wall as an analogy for the universe. I see the intimate detail in the painting and I know that a very talented man spent hours, days and perhaps weeks creating this painting. In the same way I sit back in awe of the creation and I say, "Glory to Allah!" as I see evidence of the Creator. I believe it was Sister Bluebell who said something to the effect that the amazing thing about atheists is their apparent lack of awe that believers have when we see the the details and beauty of the creation.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

It is interesting to me that I have the same disgust for ToE as you seem to have for all things religious.

I would also be disgusted by somebody, atheist or theist, who declared the theory of evolution as absolute revealed truth and not to be questioned or revised.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Also, I did point to such flaws to your theories because you were not able to answer my next questions: what was the cause of the multiverses, etc etc.

First, they are not my theories. Second, my not responding to your questions does not in anyway create or identify flaws in those theories.

You are having a serious disconnect here...

I wrote

Sure, it MAY be possible, but so may the other theories I noted, so may the creation myths of other incompatible religions and cultures.

And you quoted that and responded

Can you please tell me why the truth according to Islam is such an impossibility?

This seems to be a pointless conversation. Do you understand what you are responding to? Are you actually reading it?

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

It seems that atheists start with the supposition that 'God does not exist'

Actually, for most of us this is not the case. We still live mostly in cultures and families dominated by religion. Most of us are raised religious, fed these myths alongside other myths like Santa, and later see through them. And no, it isn't typically people befalling traumatic events or "rebelling against god" as you may imagine. I would recommend the book "Amazing Conversions" by Hunsberger and Altmer.

the amazing thing about atheists is their apparent lack of awe that believers have when we see the the details and beauty of the creation.

You imagine this. There is plenty of awe in the mind of atheists when they look at the cosmos. Neil Degrase Tyson (astronomer) wrote beautifully on this, as did Carl Sagan. I'd go read those before you start projecting on atheists. When you don't have a "God" to attribute everything to it becomes that much MORE beautiful, and yes, awesome.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I would also be disgusted by somebody, atheist or theist, who declared the theory of evolution as absolute revealed truth and not to be questioned or revised.

I take the comment as referring to stories of creation not being questioned or revised by believers. I remind you that some things in the Quran are allegorical and no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

psychocelis: you have not presented a convincing evidence for atheism. You talk against murder and what not. I dont believe in your morality (or any morality) for the same reason you dont believe in my God. Both are unseen and both are unknowable.

CosmicPathology: It does not surprise me that you have no belief in morality.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

When you don't have a "God" to attribute everything to it becomes that much MORE beautiful, and yes, awesome.

How do you have a sense of awe with chance, randomness and inadequacy offered by ToE?

Lacking faith in God, I also assume you don't believe in the Hereafter. If so, what is the purpose and philosophy for your life? Is it "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die (and cease to exist)"?

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

CosmicPathology: It does not surprise me that you have no belief in morality.

aah, nice play on words. Btw, pathology is a very important branch of health sciences. Glad to be referred by that.

Whose morality? Yours? Or of Kuru people from Papua Guinea who practiced cannibalism? Or of Hindus who used to burn widows? Or of Hitler?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

When you don't have a "God" to attribute everything to it becomes that much MORE beautiful, and yes, awesome.

And the beauty comes out of randomness and absolute nothingness by itself?

 

[CosmicPathos]

the world has progressed far away from that primitive level of physics that keep on repeating. Scientists now talk about quantum fluctuations.

 

[TrueStranger]

While primitive morality is on the rise.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Whose morality? Yours? Or of Kuru people from Papua Guinea who practiced cannibalism? Or of Hindus who used to burn widows? Or of Hitler?

 

[جوري]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

I would also be disgusted by somebody, atheist or theist, who declared the theory of evolution as absolute revealed truth and not to be questioned or revised.

I think what irks folks around here the most about you, is how redundant you become and how little you read, for surely we've quoted you directly from the Quran and repeatedly,

Sahih International
I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants.

It is in fact atheists who claim to know with an arrogant form of absolution and offer laughable improbable and non-provable theories to support their allegations on the origins of life and how we came to be. Theists claim no more than life is purposeful and created. We don't claim to know how the creator created.. so who here is justified in their disgust?

best,
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