Why are you an atheist?

[جوري]

Wait a minute, what do you mean by "validation"? So acceptance is validation? So should we muslims just hide who we are and not want to be accepted? We shouldn't complain about any restrictive measures put on us then I guess, because that's seeking validation of a private affair here in the West. I mean leaving a religion is far easier than denying ones sexuality, so I guess we don't have an excuse? I think you know why your position is so problematic now.

I have pretty much stated several times that religion and lewd sexual acts or any sexual acts don't belong in the same category and refuse to humor that even for the sake of an argument!

So do heterosexuals have to keep their relationships private from their friends and family and fear reprisals from them and from the government?

I don't really understand what this means?

 

[SorayaCali]

I have pretty much stated several times that religion and lewd sexual acts or any sexual acts don't belong in the same category and refuse to humor that even for the sake of an argument!

No offense then but you've admitted you're argument is flawed, as you're not willing to emphasize and understand how stuff like this goes both ways. You want a group you identify with to have full rights but not a group you personally don't care for. Well, isn't that a common story in history? I don't mean any offense by this whatosever, but that's just stubborn and short-sighted I think.

I don't really understand what this means?

I'll be more sympathetic to your points when heterosexuals start keeping their life private out of fear of violent reprisals.

 

[جوري]

No offense then but you've admitted you're argument is flawed, as you're not willing to emphasize and understand how stuff like this goes both ways. You want a group you identify with to have full rights but not a group you personally don't care for. Well, isn't that a common story in history? I don't mean any offense by this whatosever, but that's just stubborn and short-sighted I think.

I am not offended by your understanding of the world around you nor your very broad spectrum definitions by which you seek to sweep everything under including two subjects that are as related to each other as tandem biking and baby powder. It is tangential and circumstantial at best. Notice though I haven't lost my manners around you!

I'll be more sympathetic to your points when heterosexuals start keeping their life private out of fear of violent reprisals.

That's your privilege, and I certainly don't see anything in my points that seeks sympathy or agreement..

best,

 

[CosmicPathos]

sorayacali, it would have done you good if you had answered those questions here, now when you have publicly advertised that I sent you a PM.

 

[Abz2000]

you can't empathize by equating a criminal robbing someone with a person giving charity.
i find it offensive that one can equate faith in their Creator with something as base as their sexual preferences.
especially when it comes to deviations in the inherent nature.

i mean i feel sorry for some politicians who sell their souls and i feel sorry for pr0stitutes who sell their bodies,
but if i was told that there was someone at the door for me and i said:
"if its a politician or a homosexual or a hooker, tell them i'm not available to give them counselling".
i'm sure any decent politician would feel offended.

 

[CosmicPathos]

For Muslims, I blame Islamic scholars and their culture. With some exceptions like Hamza Yusuf, most scholars I have listened to, have no idea how to address homosexuality. The rhetoric they use is the reason why some homosexuals are beaten up. They are clueless when addressing this issue, though some scholars in UK are becoming good at addressing homosexuality in a polite and diplomatic manner.

For that very reason I think Hamza Yusuf is a stupid idiot munafiq. He has time and time again shown where his allegiance lies. I also dont like the direction Al-Magrib institute is taking. Off topic.

Are you really saying that Hamza Yusuf is right while the blessed scholars from Arabian peninsula are stupid since centuries just because they condemned homosexuality and have not accepted modernity?

Thankfully none in my family is such a deviant, and if there was, I am sure my dad would have kicked them out of our house forever. And I'd do the same.

No need for those filthy children who go against Allah's commands and prefer to follow their wishes without taking into consideration the effect it will have on the loins and wombs from where they came from. Filthy worshippers of self.

 

[جوري]

you can't empathize by equating a criminal robbing someone with a person giving charity.
i find it offensive that one can equate faith in their Creator with something as base as their sexual preferences.

To begin with I don't even know what 'rights' she's speaking of that religions seek that can be categorically equated with sodomy?
It is frightening when minds become jaded that there is no understanding where the line needs to be drawn between what is good, moral or even fruitful with no moral attachment to all that is opposite to it..

[FONT=Verdana,arial]

Walaodillannahum walaomanniyannahum walaamurannahum falayubattikunna athana alanAAami walaamurannahum falayughayyirunna khalqa Allahi waman yattakhithi alshshaytana waliyyan min dooni Allahi faqad khasira khusranan mubeenan​

4:119 "I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest. ​

[/FONT]

 

[SorayaCali]

If you believe in evolution, then you'd know that the strongest will survive. Heterosexuals, by virtue of being dominant, majority and strong, silence the voice of homosexual dissidence. I do not see any problems with it, really.

Hey, my sis is plenty strong She's in the military, while I'm a total coward and chose college.

But gays are gaining more rights and acceptance around the world, so I guess you're wrong?

No need for those filthy children who go against Allah's commands and prefer to follow their wishes without taking into consideration the effect it will have on the loins and wombs from where they came from. Filthy worshippers of self.

No offense but you remind me of those racist who are all like "darn right I'm racist and Ima proud of it!"

 

[SorayaCali]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Mistake, I meant to quote " I dont feel bad about "discriminating," nor do I feel that I am being a bigot when I display my abhorrence towards homosexuals. I have accepted we humans are bast-ard children of evolution, and hence it is incumbent upon me to treat humans just like how Darwinian forces treat us by mutations, disease, suffering, and you name it. " At the last resposne. Sorry for the triple post.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

So one marganlized group is not worthy of sympathy and deserves what it gets, but another one is oh so unfairly treated and it doesn't make sense how anyone wouldn't sympathize with it. Sounds a bit hypocritical, but oh well. I mean no disrespect, it's just such a stance rubs off me the wrong way I guess.

you have already assumed that such a group is marginalized and is innocent and hence is worthy of sympathy. Fortunately sr bluebell nor do I and many others here make such assumptions. Hence using such touchy feely terms of "marginalized" "discrimination" wont make us feel like sh-it for hurting an innocent soul.

 

[Abz2000]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

So one marganlized group is not worthy of sympathy and deserves what it gets, but another one is oh so unfairly treated and it doesn't make sense how anyone wouldn't sympathize with it. Sounds a bit hypocritical, but oh well. I mean no disrespect, it's just such a stance rubs off me the wrong way I guess.

sister, i have no intention of disrespecting you but would you say the same thing about those who practice bestiality or ritual human sacrifice?
i'm sure there are many who believe it's totally natural and that they are being sidelined and unfairly treated by the wider community who refuse to sympathize.
actually for a darwininst it would be totally natural to assume that bestiality is a natural inclination of mammals and shouldn't be suppressed - since that's how they like to believe they came about.

 

[جوري]

What he's saying is simple really, I don't see any level of 'racism' in it..
Evolutionists (majority of whom are atheists) reduce humanity to mere animalism. There's no value to futile cycles, or mutations if homosexuality is a result of such an occurrence and no moral compunction or even meter by which to use as a standard to develop some sort of sympathy with a cycle that should end at the individual.
Religion defines morality the same way pathology defines disease for a surgeon.
You take a crude unnamed mass and a more cultivated individual puts a name to it and defines its benignancy or malignancy and religion pretty much does the same for morality.. So if you're left to your own devices you can't really complain given the measure that is the base line measure puts no value or humanity to futile cycles that are abberrant from the norm..

best

 

[CosmicPathos]

No offense but you remind me of those racist who are all like "darn right I'm racist and Ima proud of it!"

I do not see any relationship between racism and abhorrence for homosexuality. :S Emotional argumentation by getting ppl's support by using the term 'racist'? Also I feel its an ad hominem.

btw, even racism is justifiable from evolution. white skin evolved to changing environment of earth and is more "evolved." Dr. James Watson, anyone? The man is a Nobel Prize winner, and sincerely believes that white people evolved later with better IQs.

Heck even sexism is. one such theory is that men XY are a mutation of XX, XX is our natural state, soon XY will vanish, and we XX will start relying on self-fertilization via parthenogenesis. The other way is that we XY are superior as we mutated and nature selected us later for meeting the challenges of a new environment. So, really, who are you fooling?

as for your sister in US military, that does not say much about Darwinian fitness and strength, afghan gureilla fighters who grow up in the wild have been giving some tough time to US Navy Seals, I am sure your sister is at a lower rank than Seals. these afghans are more fit becuase they know how to survive and they are good are reproducing and spreading their seed (polygamy etc). Your sister by virtue of being a lesbian means shes not fit at all.

 

[Abz2000]

Emotional argumentation by getting ppl's support by using the term 'racist'? Also I feel its an ad hominem.

it's called generalization in psychology,
the scientist would get a large rat and put it in front of a baby, and then make scary sounds, the baby would become scared.
then the baby would begin screaming if it was presented with ANYTHING furry.
the experiment was called "little albert" by john watson, a refinement to pavlov's dogs

it's an old propaganda technique used by the mass media

 

[SorayaCali]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

Well you're the ones who pulled out evolution and "darwinism"

There's a famous book on the subject called Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity by Bruce Bagemihl that I'll have to do reports and essays on next semester. You can check it out if you want

Evolution myths: Natural selection cannot explain homosexuality New Scientist

And I had some youtube vids but can't post links so I don't think I need to beat a dead horse.

Anyway, as I have to take a class on biology and ecology this semester, all this stuff is retained in my head. "Survival of the fittest" is not the strong killing the weak, it's which lifeform is best suited to adapt to its environment.

sister, i have no intention of disrespecting you but would you say the same thing about those who practice bestiality or ritual human sacrifice?

So my sister and my gay friends who have consensual adult relationships are the same as people raping animals and killing others? People said that about interracial marriages in the past...

you have already assumed that such a group is marginalized and is innocent and hence is worthy of sympathy. Fortunately sr bluebell nor do I and many others here make such assumptions. Hence using such touchy feely terms of "marginalized" "discrimination" wont make us feel like sh-it for hurting an innocent soul.

Emotional argumentation by getting ppl's support by using the term 'racist'? Also I feel its an ad hominem.

And that's why any civilized person will view you as an unsympathetic toad, no offense. You're like the racist who's proud of their own ignorance and hatred. Oh well. You honestly can't see the connection? Then you're just messed up bigot who's prideful of his hatred.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

"Survival of the fittest" is not the strong killing the weak, it's which lifeform is best suited to adapt to its environment.

strong killing the weak is one part of fitness. When dissident lions kill the alpha lion, they make sure they kill all of its cubs.

Moreover, if you accept homosexuality as being valid due to evolution, also accept murder, rape etc all being valid because animals do it all the time and its an important part of driving evolution.

Dont pick and choose according to what fits your ideologies of humanism.

If you accept murder and rape as okay since it has played a role in evolution, I'll accept homosexuality as normal too.

 

[Abz2000]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

So my sister and my gay friends who have consensual adult relationships are the same as people raping animals and killing others?

aha, now we're getting there,
so you would say that incest between mother and son - or father and daughter - or brother and sister - or a gay relationship between brother and brother - are not "consensual adult relationships" in contrast to the same people raping animals?
apologies if i come across as bigoted but i think it's sick.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

So my sister and my gay friends who have consensual adult relationships are the same as people raping animals and killing others? People said that about interracial marriages in the past...

yes they are the same from evolution perspective. They all play a role in natural selection.

the person who gets murdered and has no children, he/she clearly has bad genes, as he/she could not defend him/herself, and his/her death would only do good to evolution.

Evolutionary speaking, rape is good. The man who commits rape has the ability to take risks, and risk-taking behavior is very important for driving evolution. There are higher chances that the genes which increased his suspectibility to risk taking will be spread on to the progeny coming from rape. Of course, unless the raped woman doesnt get abortion. Modern technology and abortive measures are trying to fight with evolution. Most raped women today will abort the child from rape, and hence it impedes evolution of humanity.

All these ideas are anti-Islamic and I detest them, but since we are talking about evolution, lets bare all the facts of evolution, even if they hurt your humanism and humanity.

 

[Pygoscelis]

It is bigotry plain and simple. Wrapping bigotry in religion doesn't make it not bigotry. If you care about one group being ostracized and hated on for what they choose to be (ie, Muslim) and celebrate another group being ostracized and hated on for what they are born (ie, homosexual) then there is really no other word for it other than bigotry.

Do keep in mind, Cosmic is the guy who explicitly wishes for the death of atheists. I wonder if he also wishes for the death of homosexuals. There is only so much conversation you can exchange with somebody once they tell you that they hope you die.

One last thing I'd liketo say about homosexuality and atheism. One does not imply the other. There are plenty of homosexual theists. There are plenty of heterosexual atheists. Atheists tend not to be bigotted against homosexuals (though some are) because they don't have a holy book or religious tradition telling them that they should be. When you haven't burried your natural sense of empathy under a pile of dogma you can see how hate of people for something like sexual orientation is both wrong and nonsensical.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Re: why are you a Athiest?

And that's why any civilized person will view you as an unsympathetic toad, no offense. You're like the racist who's proud of their own ignorance and hatred. Oh well. You honestly can't see the connection? Then you're just messed up bigot who's prideful of his hatred.

ad hominems. Civilized person? lol. How do you measure someone's civility? By agreeing with your worldviews? lol Gosh.