Will a nudist understand the meaning of modesty? I think not.
Why aren't the Nun's considered Opressed?
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Grace Seeker
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I don't know about a nudist. But if you recall one of the things the early European explorers discovered was that while many of the tribes they came across in their voyages around the world were scantily dress, they sill had quite strict moral codes and a highly evolved sense of modesty. For some cultures to show the ankle might be seen as scandolous and a huge violation of societal standads, while they would be totally unconcerned about appearing naked from the waist up.
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Clarify for me. Do you mean modesty or do you mean shame? Modesty is the opposite of pride and I see no reason why the nudist would necessarily be prideful. Unashamed of their body, yes. Possibly they feel shame about other aspects of life though.
And being a nudist by no means makes one not value their body (@ Naidamar above).
And being a nudist by no means makes one not value their body (@ Naidamar above).
Modest clothing in Islam and shame.
Ramadhan
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It's the natural law:
things are cheap when it's easy to have them or they are available in great numbers, things have no value when they are available for free
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I think the concept can still be easily understood by most westerners.. I mean they came up with 'Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free' so surely it shouldn't be as shocking as they pretend.. but perhaps they only pretend to alienate and portray Muslims as some sort of archaic non-progressive 'race' or something..
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Naidamar,
That is your muslim view, but it isn't shared by the nudist. A nudist simply does not see it the way you do so I hope you don't believe he/she goes nude as some sort of prideful display or as a display of imodesty or indecency. She does not feel devalued by walking around nude. She feels liberated.
We are all born naked and most nonhuman animals stay that way. Clothing was first worn for protection against the elements and for sanitary reasons (which is a fair concern regarding nudists). The taboo of nudity derived from there via various cultures, some of which as a previous poster mentioned have very different nudity taboos (walking around topless but covering the feet or whatever). It is cultural, not inborn.
I submit that the stronger the taboo is the more exciting and "naughty" breaking it will be. I am not a nudist, but I know some and I have been to nude beaches and resorts. I was amazed at just now NOT sexual it all is, and how quickly the taboo fades away and how natural it feels to be naked. But I recognize it isn't for everyone. I don't make a habit of it myself.
As muslims, it may be too much to ask you folks to understand where the nudist mindset is coming from, just as it may be too much to ask some westerners to understand where the muslim mindset is coming from. And so miconceptions, tribalism, and even bigotry can develop even amongst well meaning people of both groups. But I don't think this has to be so.
My post above was an expression of a desire to see people from such opposite ends of the spectrum, muslimas who cover their entire bodies and nudists who leave their entire body uncovered, actually bridge this gap. If they can do it then the rest of us have no excuse not to. Most of us fall somewhere in between these two extremes (muslimas who wear hajib only or who do not wear hajib but otherwise dress conservatievly, western women who wear business attire, or shorts and tshirts, or belly shirts, or bikinis). .
That is your muslim view, but it isn't shared by the nudist. A nudist simply does not see it the way you do so I hope you don't believe he/she goes nude as some sort of prideful display or as a display of imodesty or indecency. She does not feel devalued by walking around nude. She feels liberated.
We are all born naked and most nonhuman animals stay that way. Clothing was first worn for protection against the elements and for sanitary reasons (which is a fair concern regarding nudists). The taboo of nudity derived from there via various cultures, some of which as a previous poster mentioned have very different nudity taboos (walking around topless but covering the feet or whatever). It is cultural, not inborn.
I submit that the stronger the taboo is the more exciting and "naughty" breaking it will be. I am not a nudist, but I know some and I have been to nude beaches and resorts. I was amazed at just now NOT sexual it all is, and how quickly the taboo fades away and how natural it feels to be naked. But I recognize it isn't for everyone. I don't make a habit of it myself.
As muslims, it may be too much to ask you folks to understand where the nudist mindset is coming from, just as it may be too much to ask some westerners to understand where the muslim mindset is coming from. And so miconceptions, tribalism, and even bigotry can develop even amongst well meaning people of both groups. But I don't think this has to be so.
My post above was an expression of a desire to see people from such opposite ends of the spectrum, muslimas who cover their entire bodies and nudists who leave their entire body uncovered, actually bridge this gap. If they can do it then the rest of us have no excuse not to. Most of us fall somewhere in between these two extremes (muslimas who wear hajib only or who do not wear hajib but otherwise dress conservatievly, western women who wear business attire, or shorts and tshirts, or belly shirts, or bikinis). .
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This is a classic example of desensitization, your senses are becoming dead. Same goes for a killer, the more he kills the more it seems natural to him.
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:haha:
I really don't know why bidets aren't standard in the western world
Salaam
In the real world could you imagine dealing with nudists on a day to day basis at your work, home, school and the immense problems that would cause, seriously +o(
Im reminded of this saying from Mark Twain
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
In the real world could you imagine dealing with nudists on a day to day basis at your work, home, school and the immense problems that would cause, seriously +o(
Im reminded of this saying from Mark Twain
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Danah
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Read the Thread Title Please!
I agree!
because I start feeling disgusting of reading some comments here +o( I didn't know that some people can go that far with nudity!!!!
Alhumdulilah that I was not aware of such "thoughts" :mmokay:
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If the moderators think my post is inappropriate then I apologize, please delete whatever you think is offensive.
Some people try to argue against the most basic instinctive behaviour and the fitrah that ALLAH(swt) has put into humans, and start claiming that it is not scientific and that it is only supported by some culture of some norm or some opinion.
Paul made it official by contradicting himself regarding the women's head covering:
1 Corinthians 11:5-15
5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved.
6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.
So What is Paul trying to tell us here?
In 1 Corinthians 11:5 above, he clearly tells us that women must cover their heads.
11:6, he is telling us that for those women who refuse to cover their heads, they must get their hair shaven or cut off.
So, so far, covering the head INCLUDES covering the hair, and not just the scull, in case some smart Christian wants to explain this away.
Now, Paul goes again and confirms the head covering (i.e., wearing scarves) for women in 1 Corinthians 11:13, and he was so sure about it, that he even asked for people's common sense ("Judge for yourselves") to prove that women must not at all uncover their heads when they pray to GOD Almighty.
Then in 1 Corinthians 11:16, he tells us that the woman's long hair is her covering?!
I thought women had to cover their heads, including their hairs as clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 11:6!!
And he was so sure about it and he so believed in it that he challenged the people's common sense by saying "Judge for yourselves".
So is he saying that women with short hair (perhaps?!) must cover their heads when they go to church or pray to GOD, and women with long hair (perhaps?!) don't have to cover their hair ?
If this is so, then what the hell is the purpose of this nonsense??!!
So WHAT IS THIS RETARD SAYING HERE?! He is not making any sense what so ever!!
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I thought your post was to the point and very apropos to the previous comment made..
In my opinion any woman with a head covering, I don't think it expresses oppression but exemplifys discipline. I think its a shame that many Catholic Nuns don't wear veils anymore as they used to, like Muslimahs do today. But it just shows how the Western World has become. There's not even Nuns around now, like there once was. But I agree with what others have said in this thread, that people have assumptions of oppression because of ignorance. They don't know.
LOL!!!!
LOL!!!!
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τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1371915 said:
I thought your post was to the point and very apropos to the previous comment made..
It was deleted before I could see it, but do you people really think nudism is off topic here? This whole thread is about people covering their bodies, and being told they are oppressed for doing so. Well that is only one side of the coin....
Danah
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No brother, I was not talking about your post
No,it was not deleted
And I was shocked that there are some people who compare animals to human beings in regards to nudity!
are you degrading your humanity that much man?
abdussattar
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Humans and Animals = same? :?
Edit:- Animals dont even marry...
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I kno im gonna sound biased when I say thıs but ın my eyes a Muslımah ın Hijab looks stronger then a nun- we are more fearless, we wıll not gıve u the other cheek to slap, ıf u mess wıt us u betta kno we wıll slap u back, otherwise we are humble.
eace:
When I see nuns walkıng down the streets and a Muslımah, a Muslıma has the weıght of the world on her shoulder, shes beıng called oppressed, terrorıst, but stıll keeps her head high.
How many nuns do u see ın Universıty buıldıngs studyıng to become engıneers, doctors, Teachers? Something worth pondering over...
eace:When I see nuns walkıng down the streets and a Muslımah, a Muslıma has the weıght of the world on her shoulder, shes beıng called oppressed, terrorıst, but stıll keeps her head high.
How many nuns do u see ın Universıty buıldıngs studyıng to become engıneers, doctors, Teachers? Something worth pondering over...