Why have we become such a disgrace that we dotn even carry out allahs punishment

[quranalim]

The fact of the matter is......we muslims must respond and react to those who mock the prophet those who say"its better not to react" and be tolerant. they are nto even true muslims.

But if they insult Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) first, then we must respond and punish them so as deter them from their kufr and enmity. If we leave the kuffaar and atheists to say whatever they want without denouncing it or punishing them, great mischief will result, which is something that these kuffaar love. No attention should be paid to the one who says that insulting or responding to insults will make him more stubborn. The Muslim has to have a sense of protective jealousy and get angry for the sake of Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whoever hears the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) being insulted and does not feel any protective jealousy or get angry is not a true believer – we seek refuge with Allaah from humility, kufr and obeying the Shaytaan. And Allaah knows best."

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak, Majallat al-Da’wah, Muharram, issue no. 1933.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It says whoever doesn't have a sense of protective jealousy or basically doesn't feel anything when something is said against RasulAllah sallallahu alayhi wassalam isn't a true Muslim. So technically you're saying if I don't go and attack a non Muslim I'm not Muslim or a real one. Well jee thanks dude!

I feel plenty thank you very much

 

[Abdul Wahid]

I think everything has been discussed.

Time to lock the thread perhaps.

 

[Asiyah3]

bro Quranalim i understand what you're saying, but again these punishments would only apply in a muslim country where they can be carried out by the state

How can we carry out the punishment of Allah when our rulers are non Muslim and we're living in their lands. We haven't even got a leader or a system in place to implement shari'a. Forget implementing shari'a in the west, Muslim countries don't even have 100% sharia law, I find it comical when groups call for Islamic Law in the west when in their home countries like Pakistan there's brothels and alcohol being sold. No doubt every Muslim wants to live under sharia but untill there is a proper state we don't have the right to go round inflicting the punishment of Allah upon people.

Every scholar I've heard has said "live according to the laws of the land and do not take the law into your own hands" I've not heard one of them actually promote going round and stoning the adulterer while living in a non islamic country.

If someone mocked the prophet pbuh because all his life he had been fed bad information about the prophet and was none the wiser with regards to his actual personality are you just going to kill this person?

what if later in life he learns the truth about Islam and becomes Muslim, by killing him you take away that possibility.

Are you telling me if some 1 mocked the prophet pbuh infront of you in a non islamic country where there's no shari'a, you'd just kill them ? is that what you're saying? is that what you're promoting here? I'm abit unclear about what you're trying to get at. you're saying implement the punishment of Allah but you've jumped 2 steps down the road, the first step was Islamic state and actual shari'a law .

focus on them things before you start going round inflicting people who are non the wiser with sharia punishments.

I couldn't agree more with these posts. I think this thread should be closed and deleted.

 

[Billal-A]

so your telling me i don't have a right to be angry that black sheep muslims are blowing up innocent women and you still have the nerve to call these people muslims. muslims don't go around killing people

and children? maybe if i did not let my emotions get the better of me i would not be human id be stone cold


hearted evil person. so what your asking me to do is impossible because i cannot sit back and watch my own

brothers and sisters being wrongly harrassed and abused on the streets because of one black sheep we all bloody have to suffer...

If some one kills a human its like he has killed the whole of humanity.

because of these so called muslims thousands maybe you can say millions have chosen not to revert to islam because they don't want to be called a terrorist. that is millions of people who will not be saved from the helfire and you expect me not to let my emotions take over and not to lose sleep over it?

maybe when my sister or brother joins you can ask her why she wont revert and then maybe you will feel the anger i feel

im not saying anymore on the matter.

salaam

Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,

I advise you of the following verses:

"Not upon you, [O Muhammad], is [responsibility for] their guidance, but Allaah guides whom He wills. And whatever good you [believers] spend is for yourselves, and you do not spend except seeking the countenance of Allaah." [2: 272]

- this Ayah was revealed concerning Abu Talib, the uncle of the Prophet. He used to protect the Prophet, support him and stand by him. He loved the Prophet dearly, but this love was a natural love of kinship, not a love that was born of the fact that he was the Messenger of Allah . When he was on his deathbed, the Messenger of Allah called him to Faith and to enter Islam, but he remained a follower of disbelief.

"And most of the people, although you strive [for it], are not believers." [12: 103]

"Indeed, those who disbelieve – it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe. Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment." [2: 6-7]

"Perhaps, you would kill yourself in grief, over their footsteps, because they believe not in this narration" [18: 6]

"So destroy not yourself in sorrow for them." [35:8]

"And grieve not over them." [16:127]

"It may be that you are going to kill yourself with grief, that they do not become believers." [26:3]

`Do not feel sorry for them, just convey the Message of Allah to them. Whoever goes the right way, then he goes the right way only for the benefit of himself. And whoever goes astray, then he strays at his own loss, so do not destroy yourself in sorrow for them.' [Tafseer ibn Katheer]

- Allaah knows whether they will accept Islaam or not. So what we gauge from this is that we give da'wah as best we can and inform the non-Muslims of this deen, but it lies with Allaah, only Allaah guides them to accepting the deen.

My advice to you is dont be so emotional about matters that are outside your control we dont play God with who is guided and why they are or are not guided. Allaah punishes and is justified in it. It is not something new that has been employed against Muslims. Since the dawn of time there has always been mischief and slanders against the Muslims. All the Prophets were slandered, so this is not new now. Propaganda is the spearhead of the kuffaar against Muslims. That will always remain.

As for what we are required to do. We are to show Islaam in its true light, based on the Qur'aan and sunnah as best we can and invite people to the true deen. We must always emphasise that we cannot look at Muslims and decide the truth because we Muslims are involved in mass sin and are not representing our deen well enough. So we call to the beauty of Islaam.

As Light of heaven mentioned, people are accepting Islaam more than ever now. 9/11 produced the largest negative propaganda campaign against Muslims, yet there were more reversions after 9/11 than before it in the US. Why? Because Allaah guides whom he wills. No matter what happens the Qur'aan and Sunnah, is preserved and NO MAN CAN BLAME ANYONE ELSE FOR FAILING IN ACCEPTING ISLAAM.

Lets please not pick on one type of extreme: yes there are some people who do target civilians using Islaam as the reason so we refute and condemn that, but we dont make out as though thats the Kryptonite of the Muslim world, look at how much Shirk the Muslim world is involved in. Look at how many so called "Muslims" do in terms of washing down the principles in religion, imitating the non-Muslims, saying Islaam needs a re-intepretation in modern times, music, zinaa, alcohol, drugs, you name it Muslims are involved in it. So lets not point the finger at one extreme of terrorism and call the chickens to roost on those small bands of Muslims.

As I said before our loyalty is to the Muslims and this is because of our testification to laa-ilaaha ill-Allaah. We by declaring this declare love for all those who profess it and hate all that which goes against it. So please sister, why the cuss words and the extreme anger towards these people who are sinning and not the ones who commit zina? what about so called Muslim bands and musicians? what about American oppression in the Middle East? what about Israels crusade against the Palestinians?

Why does it feel like your so angry about the bombings and terrorism but not equally as angry for the CAUSE OF IT: AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICIES/ISRAEL/UNITED NATIONS etc. Thats the reason why there is aggression in the first place. Its not like these Muslims who commit these sins are doing so for sheer Islamic virtue of it, they are doing it to retaliate against American war crimes so why dont you cuss and use profane words against that also?

This is why I advise you to calm down, speak with knowledge and be balanced. Kuffaar are not our beloved, we respect them, we fulfill their rights and we do what we can in order to bring them to accept the truth. But we dont ally with them against our Muslim brothers and sisters and we dont bend over backwards in order to please them. If they go to hell they are punished because they deserved it not because they were misled by "terrorists" from accepting the truth. Allaah punishes and his punishment is his justice so saying "they will go to hell because of these people" is really casting aspersions and doubts onto the Justice of Allaah.

Even if we blame al-Qaeda and terrorists for so called bombings against innocent people. What is our basis for believing it? Are we going to rely on CNN and FOX news for this information? Just like how there were WMDs in Iraaq somewhere that could be detonated in 45 minutes? This is why we are told to verify our sources whenever we hear news from a kaafir/evil person (refer to Surah 49). To be honest, nearly every attack that happens gets blamed on so called "Muslim terrorists" and there is next to no evidence to prove it was done by them. Furthermore, we have reports coming from the accused Muslims, that Americans are planting and detonating bombs themselves in order to justify drone attacks in Pakistan. So the least we can say is that there is no solid evidence either way [even though we should always take the side of the Muslim in this case].

If non-Muslims seek to justify their non belief in Islaam by saying "Muslims are terrorists" then they are fascist and that is the cause of their own destruction. Because we know a basic human right is one person cannot be blamed for anothers action, a son not blamed for the fathers deed, a mother not blamed for a daughters deed, nor will anyone be charged for the offence of another. So if someone says to you "I am not accepting Islaam because of Bin Laaden" then tell them Bin Laaden isnt the reason for Islaam being revealed as a religion. If they say "we dont like it because of terrorism" then explain to them the true message of Islaam. Just like we cant say "we hate America because of Bush" or we hate Germany because of hitler" or "we hate Jews because of Ariel Sharon". Pointless debate really.

Maybe, we should be out there making a change, showing what Islaam is really about rather than pointing fingers in dubious directions looking for solace in the extreme acts of another. We all are slack when it comes to deen, we all dont worship Allaah as he deserves so before we start declaring others with labels and slanders, let us look to rectifying our own affairs and fulfilling our own responsibilities.

P:S - Killing innocent people does not take you outside the fold of Islaam. It is a major sin but not something that removes you from being a Muslim.

 

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

Allah (swt) knows best

 

[Billal-A]

The fact of the matter is......we muslims must respond and react to those who mock the prophet those who say"its better not to react" and be tolerant. they are nto even true muslims.

I think yes you should react thats correct but to go around flailing the hadd punishment isnt what is required in this case as we cannot implement that. May Allaah reward you for illustrating this beautiful concept here, but quite frankly its very mistimed and very misplaced. We know we cant apply sharee'ah hadd punishments in the west especially, where these types of insults tend to happen the most, so really going into the hadd is completely irrelevant.

As for the "no permission" issue, my two examples are explicit proofs from the khulafaa ar-raashideen that we need the MUSLIM RULER to implement that. Also the same sources you are using are used to refute your stance which seems to be the "vigilante" approach, so akhi please lets stick with the scholars on this one.

May Allaah have mercy on all of us. Ameen.

 

[cat eyes]

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[cat eyes]

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[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

what exactly do u mean by that i have a habit of putting words in peoples mouth? i read your post very clearly and thats exactly what you meant that my sister is making excuses of not reverting. what the hell do u know about anything that you make judgements about people whom you dont even know.

Apparently you haven't read it clearly. Understanding my post doesn't involve mixing in your thoughts with my words. I haven't mentioned your sister at all. The only person to have have done that was no one but yourself. Stop taking your frustration out on me its childish. You know full well I did not mention her and I only gave you my input but rather you felt it was necessary to go on a rampage. I have not made judgements about anyone. Perhaps you need to run through your own posts and then tell me who is judging.

JazakAllah khair.

now the true colors of members is really coming out Alhamdulilah.

I won't go as low as that inshaAllah.

 

[Billal-A]

now the true colors of members is really coming out Alhamdulilah.

SubhanAllaah,

Sis I really think you need to either take a time out or really ponder over your statements. At the end of the day we are all held accountable for our speech so let us either speak by way of what is right or remain silent. Nobody has accused your sister of making excuses. Thats between and whoever is able to assess that. I think you should stop reading what is simply not there and take the points that are being presented to you.

So far what I have seen from Light of heaven is correct in principle. A person has no excuse in not accepting Islaam, they cannot justify not accepting it based on what they see MUSLIMS DOING. This is simply abismal. It may seem a justification to some but if it was in the eyes of Allaah then it would be an exception for non-Muslims but it is not. The matter is, anyone who dies outside of the religion of Islaam after it has been presented to them and they are sane, of age and understanding are in the Fire and this is what is confirmed in the Qur'an and sunnah.

Whatever reasons a person may give for not accepting Islaam do not hold weight at all. This is known. And this applies to your sister as well. May Allaah guide her to the truth, Ameen.

 

[cat eyes]

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[cat eyes]

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[shuraimfan4lyf]

ignorant ignorant IGNORANT:raging: I Never do anything of the sort. i always speak my mind.


Go and learn some manners

Sister, take a chill pill. By posting all these "manner" post, it seems like you are the one who needs to learn some manners.

 

[aadil77]

so your saying my sister is making up excuses now of why she wont revert? why are we afraid to point the finger at muslims? more like why are we making excuses for evil... its unbelievable

sis there are many reason for this, first of all you should protect the honour of muslims, secondly with issues like suicide bombings we have to be careful of assuming the worst of muslims because there have been many instances of muslims being wrongly blaimed

on the other hand of your argument of people not reverting we can say that many have reverted because of the increase in media about islam, we have to try and give the best imagine of islam, if people do not revert then that is not in our hands, we can't say such and such reasons caused/prevented people from reverting - only Allah has the knowledge of that

 

[aadil77]

ignorant ignorant IGNORANT:raging: I Never do anything of the sort. i always speak my mind.


Go and learn some manners

^lol u beat me to it

chill my sister in islam

everything is cool here :shade:

 

[cat eyes]

Sister, take a chill pill. By posting all these "manner" post, it seems like you are the one who needs to learn some manners.

read her snide remark before making any comments.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ok this is getting bad and my intention was never to judge nor hurt anyone. Firstly, my post was not aimed at anyone but was only my assessment of how I would notice things. I had also mentioned that these were just my thoughts and may not necessarily be correct. Secondly I want to apologize for my comments I just said it in the heat of the moment and didn't mean any of it.

 

[Billal-A]

"The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allaah that you may receive mercy. O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name [i.e., mention] of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent – then it is those who are the wrongdoers. O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin." [49: 10-12]

"Certainly will the believers have succeeded: They who are during their prayer humbly submissive. And they who turn away from ill speech" [23: 1-3]

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and speak a word that is right. He will set right for you your deeds and forgive you your sins. And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly attained a great achievement.” [33 : 70-71]

"Whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day, let them speak good or remain silent" [Bukhari]

“Indeed a servant will speak a word pleasing to Allah that he thinks to be insignificant, but because of it Allah raises him by many degrees. And indeed a servant will speak a word displeasing to Allah that he thinks to be insignificant, but because of it, He will consign him to the Hellfire.” [Bukhari]

“A man might speak a word without thinking about its implications, but because of it, he will plunge into the Hellfire further than the distance between the east and west.” [Bukhari & Muslim]

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^JazakAllah khayr for the reminder and once again my apologies. Forgive me inshaAllah. Love you for the sake of Allah sis.