Why have we become such a disgrace that we dotn even carry out allahs punishment
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CatEyes
from what i udnerstand from your comments. first you denied that the punishment can be applied to a kafir as well. then ishowed you how to schoalrs have said...the kafir are also binded by this punishment.
then you claimed the prophet never punished anyone for this...and i showed you the hadith and the scholars who disagree with you.
now you claim the punishment can only be carried out by a muslim ruler.
it seems you dotn want people to get punished for abusing the prophet?
from what i udnerstand from your comments. first you denied that the punishment can be applied to a kafir as well. then ishowed you how to schoalrs have said...the kafir are also binded by this punishment.
then you claimed the prophet never punished anyone for this...and i showed you the hadith and the scholars who disagree with you.
now you claim the punishment can only be carried out by a muslim ruler.
it seems you dotn want people to get punished for abusing the prophet?
aadil77
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bro ofcourse we do, but we have to follow correct islamic teachings as to prevent spreading fitna and corruption, brother Bilal has shown you that you cannot take the law in your own hands and that you cannot carry out these punishments in non muslim lands
Salahudeen
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what are you on seriously?? did you like completely by pass Bilal's post?? go back and read Bilal's post, you still haven't addressed the issues that were raised in it, and it's a fatwa from THE SITE YOU'RE QUOTING FROM SAYING YOU CAN'T CARRY OUT PUNISHMENTS WITHOUT A LEADER!!! READ IT PLZ!! BEFORE YOU KILL SOME 1!!!
Salahudeen
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HERE YOU GO AGAIN READ IT, A FATWA FROM THE SCHOLARS YOU ARE QUOTING FROM SAYING YOU CAN'T CARRY OUT PUNISHMENTS WITHOUT A LEADER
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,
Akhi "quranalim" without a doubt the rulings are clear regarding an individual be it Muslim or non-Muslim who slanders and speaks ill of the Prophet pbuh that he should be killed. Alhamdulillah. But to take that hadd punishments legislated in sharee'ah are to be applied in lands of kufr is not from among the scholarly opinions we have found. You have, alhamdulillah quoted from the very beneficial site Islam Q&A in referring to the ahaadeeth proving this however failed to address the issue of the following:
1. Who applies the hadd punishment?
2. What about when the act is carried out in a land that is not governed by sharee'ah?
I believe the following link from the same website addresses adequately both of these points alhamdulillah.
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/12461
If a person commits a crime which deserves a hadd punishment in a land that is not ruled according to that which Allaah has revealed, what is to be done?
If a Muslim commits a crime which deserves a hadd punishment, such as zina (adultery), and he wants to purify himself by having the hadd punishment carried out on him, but his government does not rule according to that which Allaah has revealed, what should he do? If he asks some of his relatives or friends to carry out the hadd punishment on him, is that correct, and will his sins be forgiven?.
Praise be to Allaah.
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the hadd punishment can only be carried out by the imam (Islamic ruler) or his deputy. This is in the people’s interests and is for the protection of their soul, their wealth and their honour. The imam is able to carry it out because of the power and authority he has, which make the people obey him, and because no one can accuse the imam of being biased or negligent in carrying out the hadd punishments. Thus the imam is able to carry out the hudood punishments in the proper manner so that the shar’i goals will certainly be achieved.
Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, 17/145.
It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/21:
The hadd punishments can only be carried out by a Muslim ruler or one who takes the place of the ruler. It is not permissible for individual Muslims to carry out the hadd punishments because of the chaos and fitnah (tribulation) to which that will lead.”
It also says (21/5-6):
No one can carry out the hadd punishments except the Muslim ruler or his deputy, in order to maintain order and prevent anyone from transgressing against others, and to protect against injustice. And the sinner has to pray for forgiveness and repent to Allaah and do a lot of good deeds. If he is sincere in his repentance towards Allaah, Allaah will accept his repentance and forgive Him by His grace and kindness. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.
69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;
70. Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Furqaan 25:67-70]
“And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous good deeds, and then remains constant in doing them (till his death)”
[Ta-Ha 20:82]
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Islam erases whatever came before it, and repentance erases whatever came before it.”.
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,
Akhi "quranalim" without a doubt the rulings are clear regarding an individual be it Muslim or non-Muslim who slanders and speaks ill of the Prophet pbuh that he should be killed. Alhamdulillah. But to take that hadd punishments legislated in sharee'ah are to be applied in lands of kufr is not from among the scholarly opinions we have found. You have, alhamdulillah quoted from the very beneficial site Islam Q&A in referring to the ahaadeeth proving this however failed to address the issue of the following:
1. Who applies the hadd punishment?
2. What about when the act is carried out in a land that is not governed by sharee'ah?
I believe the following link from the same website addresses adequately both of these points alhamdulillah.
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/12461
If a person commits a crime which deserves a hadd punishment in a land that is not ruled according to that which Allaah has revealed, what is to be done?
If a Muslim commits a crime which deserves a hadd punishment, such as zina (adultery), and he wants to purify himself by having the hadd punishment carried out on him, but his government does not rule according to that which Allaah has revealed, what should he do? If he asks some of his relatives or friends to carry out the hadd punishment on him, is that correct, and will his sins be forgiven?.
Praise be to Allaah.
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the hadd punishment can only be carried out by the imam (Islamic ruler) or his deputy. This is in the people’s interests and is for the protection of their soul, their wealth and their honour. The imam is able to carry it out because of the power and authority he has, which make the people obey him, and because no one can accuse the imam of being biased or negligent in carrying out the hadd punishments. Thus the imam is able to carry out the hudood punishments in the proper manner so that the shar’i goals will certainly be achieved.
Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, 17/145.
It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/21:
The hadd punishments can only be carried out by a Muslim ruler or one who takes the place of the ruler. It is not permissible for individual Muslims to carry out the hadd punishments because of the chaos and fitnah (tribulation) to which that will lead.”
It also says (21/5-6):
No one can carry out the hadd punishments except the Muslim ruler or his deputy, in order to maintain order and prevent anyone from transgressing against others, and to protect against injustice. And the sinner has to pray for forgiveness and repent to Allaah and do a lot of good deeds. If he is sincere in his repentance towards Allaah, Allaah will accept his repentance and forgive Him by His grace and kindness. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.
69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;
70. Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Furqaan 25:67-70]
“And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous good deeds, and then remains constant in doing them (till his death)”
[Ta-Ha 20:82]
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Islam erases whatever came before it, and repentance erases whatever came before it.”.
cat eyes
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of course i want that people to get punished but not like how you want. you seem to believe that a person dose not need any prove or something that you just can punish somebody so easily.
I Have already said that alot of stuff has to be taken in to account before a punishment is carried out in shariah state.
please don't take this as a joke but maybe you should see a doctor? telling us that you want to kill non muslims is not normal behaviour man. maybe you were inflicted with black magic or something
I Have already said that alot of stuff has to be taken in to account before a punishment is carried out in shariah state.
please don't take this as a joke but maybe you should see a doctor? telling us that you want to kill non muslims is not normal behaviour man. maybe you were inflicted with black magic or something
Abdul Wahid
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Can't believe this thread has not been closed!
A request to the brothers & sisters not to contribute as everything has been discussed.
A request to the brothers & sisters not to contribute as everything has been discussed.
cat eyes
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yeah your right brother i will pray that he actually realises what he is actually saying and he will come on the right path AMEEN,
Salahudeen
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allah hu alam, who knows there may be spies among us trying to find people who take the law into their own hands and kill civiliians, he's opened another thread about it also strangely enough. the op seems obsessed with finding people who agree that civilians should take the law into their own hands and kill people.
Salahudeen
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I find it quite bizare also, here we have an individual promoting breaking the law of the land and killing civillians. Yet his posts are not moderated.
Woodrow
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I am the first to agree my knowledge of Shariah is very small but if my understanding is correct, Shariah law is just and is not vigilante law nor one to be carried out and enforced by individuals. As best as I can find Shariah punishment is to be applied only after a person has been found guilty of the crime by legitimate Shariah judges, and the enforcers of the punishment are to be approved by the judge.
Do any Shariah judges exist today and if so where are they? Who do we have in today's world that is legitimately qualified to preside over a Shariah court? Very few if any of us live in such a country.
Do any Shariah judges exist today and if so where are they? Who do we have in today's world that is legitimately qualified to preside over a Shariah court? Very few if any of us live in such a country.
Woodrow
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Perhaps it is because I am finding the replies from the members, speaking much better than the silence of a deletion. We will not take the law into our own hands and as Muslims we do not follow vigilante justice and believe in fair trials. Punishment is not handed out by individuals, because be believe somebody is guilty.
Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
Tu kaun hai paiiii?
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Some have stopped but not everyone does. Nonetheless it was asked for in the course of this thread. In most threads even when there is no silence, threads are closed so I'm not sure how that really matters :/
Woodrow
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So far it seems I have been the only admin to see this thread. I can not find where anybody has used the report button to report the thread. I left it open on the basis of my own judgment as I found the replies very good to show that most of us do not justify vigilante justice.Most of us will not take the law into our own hands.
Now that I spoke my say and am satisfied with the replies in this thread, it is a good time to let it retire.
:threadclo:
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