Worms that will eat their necks

[IAmZamzam]

"The European Jews following godless etc."...I hope you didn't mean anything anti-Semitic by that? If I were you, I'd watch how you phrase things.

 

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

"The European Jews following godless etc."...I hope you didn't mean anything anti-Semitic by that? If I were you, I'd watch how you phrase things.

again I ask.

Are you sirius? XD

Please don't skim through posts, there's a reason he phrased it as he did. Did you watch the videos provided and all of the information plus books? If not then should you really be concerned and advising others?

This subject is vast, and a few wiki articles don't cut it!

anti semetic. :heated:

- cOsMiC

 

[IAmZamzam]

He didn't provide any of those things. Perhaps all of the genuine examples of anti-Semitism I've seen at boards such as this one have made me a little jaded but you have to admit, when people speak of entire groups of people like "The European Jews" as doing "godless" things it comes across as sounding a little racist and makes them appear tactless at the very least. If nothing else it was a very poor choice of words.

From the way you talk one would think I use Wikipedia as my sole source of learning because I cited it once in passing as a quick reference point.

 

[syed_z]

"The European Jews following godless etc."...I hope you didn't mean anything anti-Semitic by that? If I were you, I'd watch how you phrase things.

Political Zionism is a godless Ideology, whose purpose is to bring the jews back to the holy land by hook or by crook.....it has nothing to do with Judaism.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com
True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization dedicated to spreading the word to the people of the world that not all Jews support the Zionist state. It is our hope that through this knowledge and understanding peace may be achieved.

The Jews themselves are calling these War Mongering leaders of Western Europe i.e. Christian Zionists and their allies the Jewish Zionists as against Judaism.

 

[syed_z]

"The European Jews" as doing "godless" things it comes across as sounding a little racist and makes them appear tactless at the very least. If nothing else it was a very poor choice of words.

Whoever follows Secular ideology of Zionism, whether he or she is a European Jew or no, is following a godless ideology and it is NO surprise that majority of Jews who are Zionists are unfortunately European!

 

[IAmZamzam]

Okay, I've looked it over a second time and I now see that depending on how the sentence is interpreted the phrase "the European Jews following godless political Ideology of Zionism are at the forefront in what happening right now in the Middle East" could simply mean "[those particular] European Jews [who are] following" etc. but I can hardly be blamed for my misunderstanding given the mistake in the writing. If he hadn't left out a "the" or "that" then I would have likely understood the ambiguous meaning, as the sentence would have flowed more naturally and registered better.

All the same, syed, my apologies. Let me give you some reputation points or something to make for not giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[syed_z]

I am sorry actually English is not my native language .... I am a Pakistani, Urdu is my native language. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

 

[IAmZamzam]

I'm the only one who should be sorry. But you must understand, that kind of thing does happen for real quite a lot in these places. You've probably seen it a lot yourself.

 

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

He didn't provide any of those things. Perhaps all of the genuine examples of anti-Semitism I've seen at boards such as this one have made me a little jaded but you have to admit, when people speak of entire groups of people like "The European Jews" as doing "godless" things it comes across as sounding a little racist and makes them appear tactless at the very least. If nothing else it was a very poor choice of words.

From the way you talk one would think I use Wikipedia as my sole source of learning because I cited it once in passing as a quick reference point.

I can understand your point, and I apologize if I offended you. He actually did link a book, and Scimi also posted some videos to get more acquainted with the subject. I said what I did because if you had acquainted yourself you would understand who exactly he was referring to, so this anti semetic stuff would not have come up. I can see that you thought about it and you made sense of it after a while and tha's a good thing Alhamdullilah.

anyway, salaam.

- cOsMiC

 

[Scimitar]

If anyone is anti semitic at the moment, it's the zionist war machine that is killing sons and daughters of Shem, ie: the Palestinians.

Anyway, to move forward:

However, I would not completely throw away all the evidence provided by those who believe Khazar Jews to be part of Gog and Magog forces....rather the evidence about Khazar Jews being part of Gog and Magog forces is a lot more and convincing than the Vikings theory especially as the European Jews following godless political Ideology of Zionism are at the forefront in what happening right now in the Middle East.

JazakAllah Khair for replying to me bro Syed_Z, and your English is fine for me to follow, alhamdulillah.

With regard to Khazar jews being a part of the nations of G&M, I just want to post the following again:

Weaknesses in identifying the Khazars as Gog and Magog.


I will not elaborate this point extensively as it will surely be clear to most people who delve into the history of the Khazar people that they do not fit the profile of Gog and Magog given in the revelatory sources except in some random characteristics.


The idea that the barrier of Dhul Qarnayn was situated in the Caucasus region came into Muslim thought through the influence of Jewish and Christian sources. Long before Islam, Jewish and Christian tradition had built a legend around the figure of Alexander the Great and identified him with the Biblical prophet who had been given dominion over the ends of the Earth and had built the great barrier to contain the tribes of Gog and Magog. The great wall of Alexander was thought to lie somewhere in the Caucasus region according to legend.


It is clear that these ideas were introduced into Muslim eschatological theory, as they have no basis in authentic revelation. Many Muslim scholars were not averse to taking ‘knowledge’ from the ‘Isra’eeliyaat’ or Jewish sources, although other scholars warned against this practice. Consequently, we find many books of tafsir identifying Dhul Qarnayn as Alexander the Great. Modern historical knowledge about Alexander, however, refutes the idea that he was a prophet or righteous man who believed in the One God.


Reasons against the Khazar people being Gog and Magog


1. The Quran describes that Gog and Magog were trapped behind the barrier and could not scale it or breach it. When they would be released, they would overrun the Earth. It is clear that the Khazar people were not trapped behind a barrier from all other people, either before the time of the Prophet (upon him be peace) or after. They were a nation of people whose relations with surrounding people are historically documented from prior to the final Prophecy.


2. It seems inaccurate to say that the Khazars stopped the Muslim armies from entry to Europe. There were clearly other routes into Europe from the Islamic Caliphate, including across the Mediterranean; it is well known that Islamic rule was established in Spain for centuries. Therefore, to say that the Khazars prevented Muslim expansion into Europe is to overstate their impact.


3. The Khazar people were from Central Asia, and thus surrounded by other ethnic groups and civilisations with whom they had extensive discourse. There is no suggestion that they were a people who were blocked off from the surrounding peoples of the world by natural or physical barriers.

I have to add here, that there may have been some blood mixing between the Khazar and the tribes of G&M which undoubtedly happens to all races/tribes at some point or another. However, with regard to pure blooded G&M, I am heavily leaning toward the Viking theory.

With historically comparative analysis it is reptty much more of a hypothesis than a theory for me, though. A lot of evidence is pointing towards the north.

Let's not forget that in Surah Al Kahf, two named directions were mentioned, West and East, and then we are told that Dhul Qarnain travelled another direction but we are not told which. We can assume that it was either North or South. However, travelling South he would not have encountered any mountain regions, hence it is logical to assume that he went north - where the mountainous regions are plentiful and a natural barrier of mountains forms along the Nordic steppe, allowing only one main exit into the lands south - where the wall must have been built by Dhul Qarnain.

But before I go on with this, I'd like to see what you have found too. Insha-Allah, between us, we can learn a little more hopefully.

Scimi

 

[syed_z]

2. It seems inaccurate to say that the Khazars stopped the Muslim armies from entry to Europe. There were clearly other routes into Europe from the Islamic Caliphate, including across the Mediterranean; it is well known that Islamic rule was established in Spain for centuries. Therefore, to say that the Khazars prevented Muslim expansion into Europe is to overstate their impact.

Arthur Koestler quotes from 13th Tribe:

[FONT=&quot]Professor Dunlop of Columbia University, a leading authority on the history of the Khazars, has given a concise summary of this decisive yet virtually unknown episode:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Khazar country… lay across the natural line of advance of the Arabs. Within a few years of the death of Muhammad (AD 632) the armies of the Caliphate, sweeping northward through the wreckage of two empires and carrying all before them, reached the great mountain barrier of the Caucasus. This barrier once passed, the road lay open to the lands of eastern Europe. As it was, on the line of the Caucasus the Arabs met the forces of an organized military power which effectively prevented them from extending their conquests in this direction. The wars of the Arabs and the Khazars, which lasted more than a hundred years, though little known, have thus considerable historical importance. The Franks of Charles Martel on the field of Tours[/FONT][FONT=&quot] turned the tide of Arab invasion. At about the same time the threat to Europe in the east was hardly less acute.... The victorious Muslims were met and held by the forces of the Khazar kingdom.... It can… scarcely be doubted that but for the existence of the Khazars in the region north of the Caucasus, Byzantium, the bulwark of European civilization in the east, would have found itself outflanked by the Arabs, and the history of Christendom and Islam might well have been very different from what we know.[/FONT]


I highlighted this part to show that just as how Normans stopped the advancing Muslim armies so did the Khazar.... so they both became barriers that stopped the spread of Islam and Muslims in to Europe (West and Eastern). So it is not fair to say that Khazars did not stop the Muslims from entering Europe.

Another thing that I believe is that in the same Book the 13th tribe, when King Joseph (one of the Khazar King) who replied back to Hasdai Shaprut, a Jew (the minister at the court in Cordoba Spain, Ummayad Caliphate), when asked about which tribe (of the 12 tribes of Children of Israel) the Khazar's belonged to ...Joseph replied...

“We have found in the family registers of our fathers,” Joseph asserts boldly, “that Togarma had ten sons, and the names of their offspring are as follows: Uigur, Dursu, Avars, Huns, Basilii, Tarniakh, Khazars, Zagora, Bulgars, Sabir. We are the sons of Khazar, the seventh…”

.....so all of the mentioned sons and their offspring, like Hun and children of Huns, Bulgars and children of Bulgar... all of them occupied the territories between the Black sea and Caspian Sea and almost all of them had war like nature and were known to the world from time immemorial as the Wild Tribes and it was due to this reason the passes such as Dariel and Darband came in to existence, because of their continuous attacks on the land of Iran and Southern part of Asia.

Now the Khazars became the ruler of ALL the children, and their empire was surprisingly came on to the world stage at the same time when Prophet (saw) was propagating Islam in heartland of Arabia and it was during his time of spreading Islam that he (saw) had a dream of a "hole" being created in the wall of Gog and Magog.

They 1st came to be known while being in the hordes of the King of the Hunnish Empire named Atilla the Hun....the Book 13th tribes states....


Priscus’s chronicle confirms that the Khazars appeared on the European scene about the middle of the fifth century as a people under Hunnish sovereignty, and may be regarded, together with the Magyars and other tribes, as a later offspring of Attila’s horde.

...later on they became rulers of all the wild hordes...

The collapse of the Hun Empire after Attila’s death left a power-vacuum in Eastern Europe, through which once more, wave after wave of nomadic hordes swept from east to west, prominent among them the Uigurs and Avars. The Khazars during most of this period seemed to be happily occupied with raiding the rich trans-Caucasian regions of Georgia and Armenia, and collecting precious plunder. During the second half of the sixth century they became the dominant force among the tribes north of the Caucasus. A number of these tribes— the Sabirs, Saragurs, Samandars, Balanjars, etc.—are from this date onward no longer mentioned by name in the sources: they had been subdued or absorbed by the Khazars. The toughest resistance, apparently, was offered by the powerful Bulgars. But they too were crushingly defeated (circa 641), and as a result the nation split into two: some of them migrated westward to the Danube, into the region of modern Bulgaria, others north-eastward to the middle Volga, the latter remaining under Khazar suzerainty.


...so when they became emperors and established their Khazar Kingdom which is during 2nd half of the 6th century, I believe it was that when the Prophet (saw) had a dream while in Arabia....

So I believe we cannot rule out them to be one of the Gog and Magog forces.... rest I will post tomorrow InshA'Allah.... I have to go.

 

[Scimitar]

Arthur Koestler quotes from 13th Tribe:

Professor Dunlop of Columbia University, a leading authority on the history of the Khazars, has given a concise summary of this decisive yet virtually unknown episode:

The Khazar country… lay across the natural line of advance of the Arabs. Within a few years of the death of Muhammad (AD 632) the armies of the Caliphate, sweeping northward through the wreckage of two empires and carrying all before them, reached the great mountain barrier of the Caucasus. This barrier once passed, the road lay open to the lands of eastern Europe. As it was, on the line of the Caucasus the Arabs met the forces of an organized military power which effectively prevented them from extending their conquests in this direction. The wars of the Arabs and the Khazars, which lasted more than a hundred years, though little known, have thus considerable historical importance. The Franks of Charles Martel on the field of Tours turned the tide of Arab invasion. At about the same time the threat to Europe in the east was hardly less acute.... The victorious Muslims were met and held by the forces of the Khazar kingdom.... It can… scarcely be doubted that but for the existence of the Khazars in the region north of the Caucasus, Byzantium, the bulwark of European civilization in the east, would have found itself outflanked by the Arabs, and the history of Christendom and Islam might well have been very different from what we know.


I highlighted this part to show that just as how Normans stopped the advancing Muslim armies so did the Khazar.... so they both became barriers that stopped the spread of Islam and Muslims in to Europe (West and Eastern). So it is not fair to say that Khazars did not stop the Muslims from entering Europe.

Yes, I felt this way for quite a while myself. Until I was forced to look again at the hadeeth regarding the "swarming down upon" the believers. This is implying that the G&M will attack the Muslims, not the other way round. So in the example you cited from Koestler, doesn't really prove that the Khazars were the G&M you see?

The Muslims were the ones who went to "conquer" other lands... on the way, they found the Khazar lands, and tried to infiltrate those, and because the Khazars managed to hold the Muslims off for a period of approx. 100 years - seems to justify that the Khazars are the G&M? I find that kinda weak now... I never used to. I just started to think more, and think in perspective.

Moving on -

Another thing that I believe is that in the same Book the 13th tribe, when King Joseph (one of the Khazar King) who replied back to Hasdai Shaprut, a Jew (the minister at the court in Cordoba Spain, Ummayad Caliphate), when asked about which tribe (of the 12 tribes of Children of Israel) the Khazar's belonged to ...Joseph replied...

“We have found in the family registers of our fathers,” Joseph asserts boldly, “that Togarma had ten sons, and the names of their offspring are as follows: Uigur, Dursu, Avars, Huns, Basilii, Tarniakh, Khazars, Zagora, Bulgars, Sabir. We are the sons of Khazar, the seventh…”

So- if the Khazars belong to the tribe of Jews - how do they belong to the tribe of Gog and Magog also? they can't be both bro.

Remember - the G&M are the sons of Japeth, a son of Noah Alahis salaam.

Whereas the tribe of Jews, are from the sons of the Prophet Israi'l Alaihis salaam.

This is a key determining factor in their genealogy.

.....so all of the mentioned sons and their offspring, like Hun and children of Huns, Bulgars and children of Bulgar... all of them occupied the territories between the Black sea and Caspian Sea and almost all of them had war like nature and were known to the world from time immemorial as the Wild Tribes and it was due to this reason the passes such as Dariel and Darband came in to existence, because of their continuous attacks on the land of Iran and Southern part of Asia.

Darius, and Cyrus were Persian, so it makes absolutely no sense that Dhul Qarnain (maybe he was Darius, maybe he was Cyrus - Allah knows best) supposedly a Persian King and a Mede King would not know of a people so close to his own territory, and find their language to be unlike any he has ever heard. No. recall surah al Kahf, and the directions Dhul Qarnain followed.

let's imagine he left from Persia, he followed a way east, til he reached the shores of Spain and saw the sun settle in a pool of muddy water (the canary islands were active at that time and would blow plumes of volcanic ash into the sea making it seem like a pool of muddy water)... then he travelled west (passing along and over the caucuses) he travelled to where the sun rose from. Meaning the most easterly point - ie: China

Then he travels another way and here he finds a people at the foot of a mountain range. Logically this implies the North, since their are no ranges to the south of the most easterly corner of the land - China.

North makes the most sense, hence the unexplored, and uncharted part of the world where the tribe of G&M are living, is discovered by Dhul Qarnain, through the communication he had with the people who were being attacked by them. It is here that the barrier is built.

Let's go to the prophecied dream of the Prophet pbuh, and see what happened in the world at the time the prophet pbuh claimed that the barrier had been breached.

circa 650-700AD Norway - Western Europe, something unprecedented and very strange was going on. A new people were emerging on the surface of greater Europe - a people no one had ever seen before. A race of men - taller, stronger and more warlike and uncivilised than anything even the Europeans of the time had ever been able to imagine... yet they were witnessing this with their own eyes:

According to Roesdahl (1998):
“Never before or since have Scandinavians played so great a role abroad…[They] moved early from Limerick in the west to the Volga in the east, from Greenland in the north to Spain in the south. They appeared in many guises: as pirates, traders, extortioners of tribute, mercenaries, conquerors, rulers, warlords, emigrating farmers, explorers and colonisers of uninhabited regions…but what were the causes of this immense wave of outward activity?”

["to swarm down" the language used by Roesdahl is very reflective of the prophecy regarding the Swarming, or the Descending]

Historians have been unable to answer this puzzling question. Why did the Vikings pour out from their homeland at this particular juncture in history? Population pressure and the development of their famous longboats are two explanations that have been suggested, but neither is supported by historical evidence [Farrell, 1982]. According to historian, Kendrick, the Viking expansion was a huge outpouring of Northern peoples on such a scale that a “special explanation” is called for. [Farrell, 1982: p.1] In fact, Farrell, in his book ‘The Vikings’, goes so far as to say: “we can never hope to understand that activity or its causes fully”.

Unless of course we knew that, prior to this outpouring, a new people had been released from beyond the Northern mountains of the Scandinavian peninsula, who had previously been cut off from the rest of the population by impassable barriers. Once these new people, characterised by warlike, brutal activity, had established themselves on the peninsula itself, they looked to further lands for domination. From the other inhabitants of the peninsula upon whom they descended with aggressive force, they discovered the technology to build the ships for which they would become famous. Within a few generations, these unruly people were ready to embark on their voyages of plunder and conquest across the icy seas. They spread in all directions. Their motivation was, above all, greed and a lust for wealth.
Following the first attacks against England, the learned Alcuin of York wrote letters to King Ethelred of Northumbria:


“Lo, it is nearly 350 years that we and our fathers have inhabited this most lovely land, and never has such terror appeared in Britain as we have now suffered from a pagan race…”

By 795 AD, the Vikings had moved around Scotland, via the Isle of Iona, and reached Ireland. Iceland was settled in 870, Greenland in 985, and they had reached the shores of America by 1000. The East coast of the Baltic was settled even before the westward movements: by the 9th century, several parts of Russia and the South coast of the Baltic were settled by Viking invaders. Viking colonisers established the first Russian dynasty in Novgorod and Kiev, which became known as the Rus Empire. In 809, in mainland Europe, Charlemagne was planning an expedition against the Viking chief, Godfred. In 826, a pirate fleet of 13 ships was repulsed trying to attack Flanders. However, they raided the South of France and “seized great booty”. In 844, they were even making inroads into Spain. Seville was initially captured, but the Muslim imperial army soon put them to flight.

There's loads more I can add, but I think this suffices in order to make the point that the Nordic tribes were definitely lot better candidates than the Khazars as Gog magoggies.

Priscus’s chronicle confirms that the Khazars appeared on the European scene about the middle of the fifth century as a people under Hunnish sovereignty, and may be regarded, together with the Magyars and other tribes, as a later offspring of Attila’s horde.

...

...so when they became emperors and established their Khazar Kingdom which is during 2nd half of the 6th century, I believe it was that when the Prophet (saw) had a dream while in Arabia....

So I believe we cannot rule out them to be one of the Gog and Magog forces.... rest I will post tomorrow InshA'Allah.... I have to go.

If the Khazars were already known and spreading in the middle of the 5th century, then they would have escaped 100 years (atleast) before the dream prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, where he awoke sweating saying "woe to the Arabs woe to the Arabs" - the dream telling of the barrier being breached on that very day. So by this historical standard, i rule out the Khazars here too.

Wassalaam bro, we'll discuss again soon insha-Allah.

Scimi

 

[Karl]

Salaam Brother Scimitar and Yahya .... I believe its the Dariyal Pass...

What I see is that by you believing Nordic pass as the Wall of Gog and Magog, your completely overlooking the fact of Khazar Jews, the "13th Tribe" a book by Arthur Koestler , who are European Jews and are claiming the Holy Land to be their own (without them having any kind of share in the descent from Ibrahim (a.s)) and it is the Euro Jewish Elite from the Euro Jews who are the main backers of Zionism and are causing Havoc in the Middle East and Africa which I believe made Prophet (saw) wake up in the middle of the night with a shriek saying wailun lil 'arab..

....so I believe that Khazar Jews are a tribe that one should study and understand well before going in to the subject of Gog and Magog .....

Now yes there are other wild tribes of North Europe and Central Asia like Scythians and in the past like Mongols against whom even Chinese Kingdom had built Wall of China to protect against....but in the LAST Age i.e. our age.... it is the Euro Khazar Zionist Jews causing destruction.... And Allah (swt) knows best....

A Map of Khazaria Kingdom from 13th Tribe by Arthur Koestler







Also important thing to mention is the Euro Zionist Jewish Families like Rothschild, originated from Khazar land. They choose who should rule in USA, U.K etc.

Looks like you figuired out the Anti Christ. They have legions of sychophants (Godless Facsists, Marxists and brainwashed Christians and other faiths and many Muslims bend their knee to them for money.

 

[IAmZamzam]

This is getting less pleasant by the page. Didn't we start off talking about worms or something?

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Khazars were a turkish tribe,

(3) Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight with the turks - a people whose faces would be like hammered shields wearing clothes of hair and walking (with shoes) of hair. (Book #041, Hadith #6959) (Sahih muslim)

The khazars were defeated though, look at the areas of their previous empire, most there are muslims.
kind of astonished that it wasnt mentioned here. khazars are other side of the puzzle though, not related to G&M. Most people who have khazar blood today are indeed zionist jews. zionists are part of the judeo-christian alliance, which will follow dajjal. Hence they are a other side of the puzzle.

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum....

Yes, I felt this way for quite a while myself. Until I was forced to look again at the hadeeth regarding the "swarming down upon" the believers. This is implying that the G&M will attack the Muslims, not the other way round. So in the example you cited from Koestler, doesn't really prove that the Khazars were the G&M you see?

The Muslims were the ones who went to "conquer" other lands... on the way, they found the Khazar lands, and tried to infiltrate those, and because the Khazars managed to hold the Muslims off for a period of approx. 100 years - seems to justify that the Khazars are the G&M? I find that kinda weak now... I never used to. I just started to think more, and think in perspective.

Actually your referring to this hadith....

"and then Allah will send Gog and Magog and they will swarm down from every slope. The first of them will pass by Lake Tiberias (i.e. the Sea of Galilee) and drink out of it, and when the last of them passes, he will say: ‘There was once water here . . . .’” (Sahih Muslim)


This actually does not imply Gog and Magog will attack 1st because then we would also have to believe that the implication of the 1st of them passing Lake Tiberias (Sea of Galilee) also happened which actually did not happen then, but the water level has not gone down to serious diminishing level till our times....

----------------------------------------

Can Israel deal with its drought?
by dina kraft, jta

"As Israel's population swells, increasing water demands have exacerbated the effects of below-average rainfall rates. The country's three main reservoirs, including the Kinneret (sea of galilee), have dropped below their emergency lines."

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/35581/can-israel-deal-with-its-drought/

-----------------------------------------

So if you are not interpreting the above tradition literally then we would have to interpret as "First of them.." meaning the first generation of the past and the "...last of them.." meaning later generations or the generation of Eastern European Zionist Jews occupying Holy Land backed by Christian Zionists right now...... then we would also have to conclude that their "...swarming down from every mound." will take place gradually throughout the history.....

....rather I see the meaning of the above tradition how Sheikh Imran explained that this would take place through history i.e. the 1st Generation of Gog and Magog will not be powerful enough to take over the entire world immediately YET powerful enough to defeat or defend fiercely against any super power of that time like Byzantium or Sassanid empire including the Great Islamic Caliphate.

Now If you have done some research on Arab-Khazar Wars you would realize that even Khazars attacked the Muslim armies and it was NOT only Muslims attacking them, even though its true that Muslims were the 1st ones to attack.

So right from the time ....“a hole was made in the barrier built by Dhūl Qarnain” ..when they are released to them becoming a regional super power in Eastern Europe (Khazar Kingdom) till the time when they gradually make their way in to Western Europe by assimilating in the populations (because of their blue or greyish eye color and white skin), gaining ascendancy in those nations, then reach the climax of their power as decreed by Allah (swt) in our times we can then see them "Swarming from every Mound." i.e. Coming from all Heights you can imagine....with Military Might (backed by unmatchable technology), Economic Oppression (IMF, World Bank), Corrupting Religious way of life (replacing Judaism with Zionism, Christianity with Secularism and distorting Islam).....or as Allah (swt) says in Quran....

“And on that Day We shall leave them to surge like waves against one another; and the trumpet will be blown, and We shall gather them all together.” (18:99)

Sheikh Imran comments in his commentary of Surah Kahf....

“And on that Day We shall (begin a process which would call forth all mankind in what would become one global society, i.e., globalization and) leave them to surge like waves (that dash) against one another (since even though they will be one global society there will be more conflicts, wars, killing, genocide, ethnic cleansing, barbarism, racial polarization, war on Islam and on religion, etc. than ever before);


Theres this one link I found which shows how many Ashkenazi Jews (eastern european jews descending from Khazars) have inflitrated the upper levels of USA Government since USA became super power....foreign policy or local policy, all major decisions are influenced by Ashkenazi figures!

http://thezog.wordpress.com/

Names like Elena Kagan (Khazarian name) Elena Kagan (Ashkenazi Jew)—solicitor general of the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_kagan
Peter Orszag (Ashkenazi Jew)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Orszag


Another very important point that I would like to make here is that...the tradition of Prophet (saw) which says....

"....Allah will reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from among My servants such people against whom none will be able to fight.." (Sahih Muslim)

If we believe that Pagan Vikings (Later Christianized by Pope and became Franks) have Gog and Magog people within them, then we would also have to believe that Muslim armies could have NEVER defeated them because Allah (swt) said "My servants whom none will be able to fight."..... but they did suffer defeat many times in Middle East at hands of Salahuddin (r.a) and Nuruddin (r.a) and the Mamluks who finally expelled them from Muslim lands.

Btw I personally after reading "How Islamophobia came to the British Isles." strongly believe that If Khazars became Jews then Vikings became Christian, and Vikings did have Gog and Magog within them. But the only thing that I am concerned about is the Wall of Vikings.... can you show some more pictures and information about their Wall ?

Have you read "Islamic View of Gog and Magog by Shaikh Imran" .... he explains thoroughly about the Daryal Pass ?

Quote Originally Posted by syed_z View Post
Another thing that I believe is that in the same Book the 13th tribe, when King Joseph (one of the Khazar King) who replied back to Hasdai Shaprut, a Jew (the minister at the court in Cordoba Spain, Ummayad Caliphate), when asked about which tribe (of the 12 tribes of Children of Israel) the Khazar's belonged to ...Joseph replied...

“We have found in the family registers of our fathers,” Joseph asserts boldly, “that Togarma had ten sons, and the names of their offspring are as follows: Uigur, Dursu, Avars, Huns, Basilii, Tarniakh, Khazars, Zagora, Bulgars, Sabir. We are the sons of Khazar, the seventh…”
So- if the Khazars belong to the tribe of Jews - how do they belong to the tribe of Gog and Magog also? they can't be both bro.

Remember - the G&M are the sons of Japeth, a son of Noah Alahis salaam.

Whereas the tribe of Jews, are from the sons of the Prophet Israi'l Alaihis salaam.

This is a key determining factor in their genealogy.

I am sorry you misunderstood me, i had quoted the above part of conversation between King of Khazars and Hasdai to show you that even the King of Khazar believed to be a descendant of Togarma from Japheth, one of sons of Noah (a.s), from whom have descended Gog and Magog as many historical references tell us, and coincidentally it is the same region they come from which is known to be a breeding ground of the Wild Tribes......so there is a very high probability that Khazars had Gog and Magog in them! Further it is confirmed in our age because of these same people forming Zionism and its obsession to take over the Holy Land and create Greater Israel.

If the Khazars were already known and spreading in the middle of the 5th century, then they would have escaped 100 years (atleast) before the dream prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, where he awoke sweating saying "woe to the Arabs woe to the Arabs" - the dream telling of the barrier being breached on that very day. So by this historical standard, i rule out the Khazars here too.

The Khazars were a tribe from among many wild tribes under the Hunnish Empire being ruled by Attila the Hun for a very short time. However they became superior and excelled all others and were THE ONLY tribe from among many tribes to rule over all the rest for 3 centuries I believe.

So the Khazars did exist before but became a Kingdom in the Middle of 7th century ce. So the hole in the Wall seen by Prophet Muhammad (saw) could have a symbolic meaning. Allah (swt) knows best.

Darius, and Cyrus were Persian, so it makes absolutely no sense that Dhul Qarnain (maybe he was Darius, maybe he was Cyrus - Allah knows best) supposedly a Persian King and a Mede King would not know of a people so close to his own territory, and find their language to be unlike any he has ever heard.

It makes perfectly sense that the language of the wild tribes of Eastern Europe that linked Persia through Caucuses was a completely different language, because in the 13th tribe one of the Arab Traveler named Ibn Fadlan was sent by Abbasid Caliph of Baghdad at the request of a Bulgar King who wanted the Caliph to build a fotress from Khazar King to whom he was subjected to and had to pay tribute .... read his account....


"The progress of the mission was slow and apparently uneventful until they reached Khwarizm, the border province of the Caliphate south of the Sea of Aral. Here the governor in charge of the province tried to stop them from proceeding further by arguing that between his country and the kingdom of the Bulgars there were “a thousand tribes of disbelievers” who were sure to kill them. The mission was allowed to proceed to Gurganj on the estuary of the Amu-Darya. Here they hibernated for three months, because of the intense coldIbn Fadlan, the fastidious Arab, liked neither the climate nor the people of Khwarizm:

They are, in respect of their language and constitution, the most repulsive of men. Their language is like the chatter of starlings. At a day’s journey there is a village called Ardkwa whose inhabitants are called Kardals; their language sounds entirely like the croaking of frogs. "

...If you read the account of Ibn Fadlan quoted by Arther, Ibn Fadlan gives explanation of characteristics not of the Khazars but of the several Turkish tribes including Bulgars that were living under the authority of Khazars who were the most powerful of all of them. But he continuosly observes all these tribes who inhabited the region around Khazaria to be very scared of Khazars, even though they themselves were of wild nature.

He even quotes Ibn Fadlan calling the Khazars Gog and Magog.

Ibn Fadlan’s travel report, as far as it is preserved, ends with the words:

The Khazars and their King are all Jews.* The Bulgars and all their neighbours are subject to him. They treat him with worshipful obedience. Some are of the opinion that Gog and Magog are the Khazars.

InshA'Allah tomorrow I will post some more important information explaining a Verse of Surah Kahf and Dhul Qarnayn (a.s).

 

[syed_z]

Looks like you figuired out the Anti Christ. They have legions of sychophants (Godless Facsists, Marxists and brainwashed Christians and other faiths and many Muslims bend their knee to them for money.

Salaam ... the AntiChrist is an Individual and not a race....

 

[syed_z]

Most people who have khazar blood today are indeed zionist jews. zionists are part of the judeo-christian alliance, which will follow dajjal. Hence they are a other side of the puzzle.

Zionist Jews are drinking up sea of galilee they are very much part of Gog and Magog as prophesied by Prophet Muhammad (saw).

 

[syed_z]

Asalaam O Alaikum....

Another Important point to share with Brother Scimitar and others....

Sheikh Imran quotes in Islamic View of Gog and Magog

“(And he marched on) till, when he reached (a pass) between the two mountain-barriers, he found before them a people who could scarcely understand anything spoken (i.e. any utterance in his language). (18:93)

"Sure enough, the Georgian language which is spoken south of the Caucasus Mountains is precisely such a language. It is an insular pre-Indo-European language with no relatives that has been spoken for at least 5000 years."


So the Sheikh suggests that It is people in the land of Georgia in the South of Caucuses Mountains who requested Dhul Qarnayn to build this wall of Dariyal Gorge.

If we agree with the Sheikh then 13th tribe also quotes the same thing that as soon as Khazar came in to power they made raids in to Georgia and Aremenia and even they reached till Mosul in Iraq...in other words they "Broke through the walls" the georgians had requested Dhul Qarnayn....

---------------------------------

At the peak of their power they controlled or exacted tribute from some thirty different nations and tribes inhabiting the vast territories between the Caucasus, the Aral Sea, the Ural Mountains, the town of Kiev and the Ukrainian steppes. The people under Khazar suzerainty included the Bulgars, Burtas, Ghuzz, Magyars (Hungarians), the Gothic and Greek colonies of the Crimea, and the Slavonic tribes in the north-western woodlands. Beyond these extended dominions, Khazar armies also raided Georgia and Armenia and penetrated into the Arab Caliphate as far as Mosul. In the words of the Soviet archaeologist M. I. Artamonov:

Until the ninth century, the Khazars had no rivals to their supremacy in the regions north of the Black Sea and the adjoining steppe and forest regions of the Dnieper. The Khazars were the supreme masters of the southern half of Eastern Europe for a century and a hall, and presented a mighty bulwark, blocking the Ural- Caspian gateway from Asia into Europe. During this whole period, they held back the onslaught of the nomadic tribes from the East. Taking a bird’s-eye view of the history of the great nomadic empires of the East, the Khazar kingdom occupies an intermediary position in time, size, and degree of civilization between the Hun and Avar Empires which preceded, and the Mongol Empire that succeeded it.

------------------------------------

.....So what the Sheikh is saying makes sense as well as its in line with what 13th tribe is mentioning.


Another thing that I would like to show is the words of Prophet (saw) when He (saw) saw a dream of a hole in the wall of Gog and Magog.... if we believe it to be the Dariyal Pass..... then we could find the meaning of the hadith in the following words of 13th tribe....


They were living under Attila the Hunnish King till middle of 5th century (i.e. till 450 CE)

Arthur Quotes "Priscus’s chronicle confirms that the Khazars appeared on the European scene about the middle of the fifth century as a people under Hunnish sovereignty, and may be regarded, together with the Magyars and other tribes, as a later offspring of Attila’s horde."

During second half of 6th century (i.e. till 550 CE) they became gained ascendancy among all the others and then later became the ONLY among all the wild tribes to rule for 4 centuries and then Also convert to Judaism and become civilized just as how Vikings wanted to become civilized by adopting Christianity....

Arthur Quotes "During the second half of the sixth century they became the dominant force among the tribes north of the Caucasus. A number of these tribes— the Sabirs, Saragurs, Samandars, Balanjars, etc.—are from this date onward no longer mentioned by name in the sources: they had been subdued or absorbed by the Khazars. The toughest resistance, apparently, was offered by the powerful Bulgars. But they too were crushingly defeated (circa 641), and as a result the nation split into two: some of them migrated westward to the Danube, into the region of modern Bulgaria, others north-eastward to the middle Volga, the latter remaining under Khazar suzerainty."


....so what I am trying to explain here is that in the early 7th century CE Prophet Muhammad (Saw) when had a dream about the hole, he had the dream and probably saw these tribes breaking Dariyal Gorge ..... but they did not become strong and started attacking till the wall was completely skaled untill the Khazar became the super power amongst them all and then Khazars attacked Gerogia, Armenia and even came down till Mosul and also resisted the Early Caliphate armies of Umar (r.a).

Please when reading all that I have posted keep watching the map I have posted above to understand what I am trying to say....please do ask me any questions I am trying to make this clear as much as I can.... follow the time line of their ascendancy that I have mentioned above.... it corresponds with the dream of Prophet (saw) when he saw the wall being broken.

 

[Al-Mufarridun]

A quick question, what prevented the Khazars from travelling across either the Caspian sea or the black sea, surely with such a large empire as is depicted on the map, they could at least master a way through these calm seas at this age. Couldn't they also come through the east on land across the Caspian sea? Also why would they be so interested in georgia/armenia/azerbaijan to the extent that they would continuously try and dig there way through for thousand(s) of years?

It just seems to me that being locked behind the caucus mountains isn't really such a difficult spot.