Worship if Muhammud?

[Malsidabym]

I will assume that in Islam it is wrong to worship any other than Allah, God himself and none other. If this is wrong then please correct me, but I believe it is right. Sometimes in listening to muslims talk about the prophet Muhhamud, it seems like it has crossed the line from great respect, to worship, or idolizing. I hear love for muhhamud greater than ones own children, etc , all kinds of wonderous praises for muhhamud, but much less frequently is this kind of praise directed at Allah. Do muslims ever think of this and is it something that concerns any of you? Is it another trick by satan himself?

 

[Malaikah]

Hello Malsidab.

Well as Muslims we are taught to love the Prophet Muhammad pbuh more than any other person, but not more than Allah swt. Sorry i dont have the exact reference, but its true that we are meant to love the prophet pbuh more than our children, our parents or even our selves.

This is NOT worship of him, but he is simply a perfect person who suffered greatly for us and we love him.

 

[Malsidabym]

Who instructed you to love him more than yourself or your family? Are you sure that it isn't the trick I asked about earlier?

 

[Malaikah]

nahh mate its not, the prophet hmself said so, i will try to find the hadith for you (do you know what a hadith is? if you dont, its a narration of the prophet)

 

[alitheislamian]

Muslims love Muhammad (SAW) bec He is the habib Of Allah.(ALLAH loves Muhammad (SAW) more than any body else)
As Muslims love Allah very much therefore they Also Love Allah's love (habib) Hazrat Muhammad (SAW).

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Hi there,
What about the people he had murdered for saying disrespectful things about him?
I cant see how the most perfect person who ever lived could do that to another human being, could somebody explain how?

Respectfully,
Papa.

 

[Malaikah]

I think you have a misunderstanding, the prophet did NOT murder, i will try to find you a reference too.

is there a particular incident you are refering too?

 

[Malaikah]

Evidence:

When Sayiduna 'Umar heard him say,"None of you believes until he loves me more than he loves his children, his parents, and all people," he said, "O Messenger of God, you are indeed dearer to me than all else except my own self."

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "No, by He in whose hand my soul is, not until I am dearer to you than your own self."

At which Sayiduna 'Umar said, "Now, by God, you are dearer to me than my own self!" At which he was told, "Now, 'Umar!" (Meaning now, your faith is complete).

[Bukhari]

 

[Malsidabym]

Please take this question without offense because none is intended, it is a true question for me, but, The prophet says "I am the most perfect human being to ever live, you all must love me more than your family or yourself." Um, hmm... please.. really... no offense intended.. but are you sure that this is not the trick I was asking about earlier? It does seem, well, a little bit self serving , or at least convenient for muhammud. I could say that to people too (but I am sure that they would throw assorted rotten food items at me, but then I am not a real smooth talker).

 

[Malaikah]

I understand what you mean, it seems a little strange but youhave no understand that vanity or 'self love' (cant think of the proper word, sorry) was just not part of the prophets character.

I would first like to point out that, prophet Muhammad is the MESSENGER OF GOD. Dont we, the followers, need to know the prophet was the best person out there? God cant give his message to just any one.

It is possibe that when you read that you imagined a very arrogant person, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Here is a little comething about the modesty of the Prophet that might help you understand (from http://islamtoday.com/show_prophet_section.cfm?main_cat_id=3&sub_cat_id=77):

Modesty

Muhammed (peace be upon him) was very modest and shy; in fact, he was a perfect model of modesty. It is narrated by many of his companions that he was more modest and bashful than a maiden. He never spoke loudly or in an unseeming manner. When he went shopping in the market, he always passed by the people quietly with a smile. When he heard anything undesirable in the assembly; he did not say anything out of respect for the people, but the colour of his face showed his feelings and the companions would become cautious. A'isha said that she never saw Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) laughing so immoderately that she could see the inside of his mouth, for he only used to smile.

Ibn Umar reported that a man from the Ansaar was giving his brother a warning against shyness> Then the Noble Prophet (peace be upon him) came along and said, "Leave him alone, shyness is a part of faith."

Zaid ibn Talya reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying, "Every religion has a character trait and the character of Islam is modesty."

Abu Hurairah reported, "Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) never criticised any food (presented to him) but would eat it if he liked it; otherwise, he would leave it (without expressing dislike).

Ibn Masud reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying, "None of my companions must tell me anything about anyone, for I like to come out to you with no ill feelings."

Abdullah ibn Musalam reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying, "Modesty is a part of the teachings of the previous Prophets and anyone who lacks it may do whatever he likes."

He lived a simple and modest life both in Makkah, as a trader and a Messenger, and in Medinah, as the head of the state and Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). The change in his social status from that of a trader in Makkah to the head of the state of Medinah did not bring any change in his modest living. Umar reported the Prophet (peace be upon him) as saying, "Do not exalt me as the Christians have exalted Jesus son of Mary. I am just His servant, so call me Allah's servant and Messenger."

'Abdullah b. Abi Aufa' reports: "The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) never disdained to go with a slave or a widow to accomplish their tasks." Anas says that any slave-girl or maidservant of Medinah could hold the Prophet (peace be upon him) by hand and say whatever she liked or take him to the place she desired. When 'Adiy b. Hatim came to see the Prophet (peace be upon him), he called him inside his house. A maidservant brought a cushion to rest on but the Prophet (peace be upon him) placed it between him and 'Adiy and sat down on the floor. 'Adiy later said that he had then immediately realised that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was not a king.

Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) used to visit the sick, attend funerals, ride on a donkey and accept a slave's invitation for a meal. Jabir states that the Prophet (peace be upon him) used to slow down his pace for the sake of the weak and also prayed for them. Anas said: The Prophet (peace be upon him) accepted an invitation even if he was presented a barley bread and soup whose taste had changed. " He also reports the Prophet (peace be upon him) as saying, "I am Allah's servant, I eat like a servant and sit like a servant.''

'Abdullah b. 'Amr b. al-'As says: "Once when the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) came to my house, I gave him a cushion filled with bark, but he sat down on the floor placing the cushion between me and him."

The Prophet (peace be upon him) used to tidy up his house, tether the camels, feed animals, take food with his servants, and help them in kneading flour and bringing provisions from the market.

 

[Malaikah]

Also, to prove that he was not selfserving, as you indicated before:
Source: http://islamtoday.com/show_prophet_section.cfm?main_cat_id=3&sub_cat_id=62

It was a settled principle with the Prophet (peace be upon him) that he always kept to the fore his own kith and kin and those who were nearer to him in facing a risk or hazard but allotted them the last place in distributing favours and rewards and spoils of war. When the three well-known swordsmen of Quraysh, 'Utba b. Rabi’a, Shayba b. Rabi'a and Walid b. 'Utba, challenged the Muslims to a single combat at Badr, the Prophetsent forward Hamza, 'All and 'Ubayda although he knew about the valour of enemy combatants and also had a number of veterans among the Muhaajiroon and the Ansar who could have successfully tilted with the Quray****e battlers. All the three, Hamza, 'Ali and 'Ubayda, belonged to the Prophet's (peace be upon him) own clan, Banu Hashim, and were his nearest relatives. They were also held dear to him but the Prophet (peace be upon him) disliked to imperil others for the sake of keeping his kindreds out of danger. God helped the three to emerge successful in the combat; Hamza and 'Ali came back safe and triumphant while 'Ubayda was brought back mortally wounded.

Again, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) disallowed usury and abolished blood vengeance belonging to the pre-Islamic period on the occasion of Farewell Pilgrimage he declared, "The usury of the pre-Islamic period is abolished, and the first of our usury I abolish is that of 'Abbas b. 'Abdul Muttalib. Claims of blood vengeance belonging- to the pagan past have been abolished and the first of those murdered among us whose blood vengeance I remit is that of the son of Rabi’a b. al Harith."

Unlike the kings, rulers and political leaders, the Prophet of God (peace be upon him) always kept his kin and kindred in the background, giving preference to others in giving out gifts and rewards. 'Ali relates that Fatima had to work hard in grinding corn. So, when she got the news that some slave girls had been brought to the Prophet (peace be upon him), she went to him but did not find him. Aisha was present there to whom she told (of her desire for a servant). When the Prophet (peace be upon him) came, Aisha informed him about Fâtima's visit. Relating this incident 'Ali says: "The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) visited us when we had gone to bed. We were about to get up but he told us to stay where we were. He then sat down near me and I felt the coldness of his feet on my chest. He then said, 'Let me guide you to something better than what you have asked. When you go to bed, say Subhan Allah (Glory be to God) thirty-three times, Alham-du lilaah (Praise be to God) thirty-three times, and Allah-o-Akbar (God is most great) thirty-four times. This will be better for you than a servant."

In another report of the same incident handed down through another source, the Prophet (peace be upon him) is also reported to have said, "By God, I cannot give you anything at the time when the bellies of my companions of Suffa have been hollowed by hunger. I have nothing to meet their expenses and I will sell these to provide for them."

And, aslo, about his sacrifices (http://islamtoday.com/show_prophet_section.cfm?main_cat_id=3&sub_cat_id=74):

The most conspicuous quality of Muhammed (peace be upon him) was his unselfish struggle for the cause of Islam and sacrifice of his personal comforts for other people. He sacrificed all, even the love and comfort of his most dear ones, for Islam and for the convenience of other people. He loved his daughter, Fatima (may Allah be pleased with her), so much that he used to stand up with an abundance of love for her and kissed her forehead whenever she came to see him. She lived in extreme poverty and herself worked on a wheel to grind flour and brought water from the well. The palms of her hands were worn out through the grinding of flour and her chest was beaten black and blue with the load of the water-bag. She came to her father and asked him for a maid-servant. Muhammed (peace be upon him) replied, "I have not been able to do anything for the As'hab Suffah; until this problem is resolved satisfactorily I cannot attend to other matters."

He never cared for his own interests or the interests of his most dear ones, when he was considering the interest and welfare of the people. Once a woman offered him a sheet of cloth which he needed at that time and he took it from her. A man praised the beauty of the sheet of the cloth and asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) to give it to him; the Prophet (peace be upon him) took it off and gave it to him. When he left the assembly, the people cursed the man saying, "You knew that God's Messenger (peace be upon him) needed this and also knew that he never turns down anyone's request." He agreed with them but said that he wanted the cloth as blessing and that it would be kept for his coffin.

Muhammed (peace be upon him) spent all his life in poverty but still never refused anyone's request. After the Muslim victories, many lands and orchards came into their possession but he distributed them all.. Muhammed (peace be upon him) himself set an example of self-sacrifice by his own deeds for others, and his companions followed in his footsteps:

"But those who, before them, had homes (in Medinah) and had adopted the faith, show their affection to such as came to them for refuge, and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves, even though poverty was their (own lot). And those saved from the covetousness of their own soul, they are the ones who achieve prosperity." [Qur'aan 59:9]

There are hundreds of such instances in the life of Muhammed (peace be upon him) which bear witness to his unselfishness and to his sacrifice for other people.

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Hi there,
Heres one of the murders he called for:

From the Sirat Rasul Allah page 675, 676.



`UMAYR B. `ADIYY'S JOURNEY TO KILL `ASMA' D. MARWAN She was of B. Umayyya b. Zayd. When Abu `Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection. `Abdullah b. al-Harith b. Al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd. Blaming Islam and its followers she said:

I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit
and `Auf and B. al-Khazraj.
You obey a stranger who is none of yours,
One not of Murad or Madhhij. {1}
Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs
Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?
Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise
And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?
Hassan b. Thabit answered her:


Banu Wa'il and B. Waqif and Khatma
Are inferior to B. al-Khazrahj.
When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping,
For death is coming.
She stirred up a man of glorious origin,
Noble in his going out and in his coming in.
Before midnight he dyed her in her blood
And incurred no guilt thereby.
When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" `Umayr b. `Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O `Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so `Umayr went back to his people.

Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [daughter of] Marwan. She had five sons, and when `Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting." That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was `Umayr b. `Adiy who was called the "Reader", and `Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam.

{1} The note reads "Two tribes of Yamani origin."

Respectfully,
Papa.

 

[Malaikah]

umm.. do you have a link for this?? reference? anything?

id first like to clarify that this is real, before we continue

 

[Malaikah]

Ive done some research and it seems that the story you have posted is actually FALSE.

Please follow the following link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/forgeries_about_killing.htm

If you have any other stories please let us know so we can clarify them for you.

I also strongly recommend that you do not rely on the site answering islam to get your information, becuase almost everything on that site has already been refuted.

 

[Malaikah]

Also, the story youmentioned involves some one insulting the prophet and then the prophet praising his friend for killing this person.

Here is a REAL accoutn of what happens when some one insults the prophet (and it is a real story):

Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewish woman brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of God’s Apostle. (Sahih al-Bukhârî, Vol. 3, Bk. 47, No. 786)

And:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Messenger of God (peace be upon him) saw the corpse of a woman who had been slain in one of the raids, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children. (Sahih al-Bukhârî, Vol. 4, Bk. 52, No. 257 & 258)

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Hi there heres a link,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asma_bint_Marwan

I suggest you purchase a copy of Islams greatest chronicle of Mohammads life.

I read the link to the anti-christian website you supplied, but it really doesnt say much, apart from you can pick and choose which bits you like to hear, the ones that show Mohammed are obviously falsified(!), and the good bits are holy.
How sad that individuals have to decieve themselves beacause they dont like what is in their own books. At least the violent supporters of Islam have the decency to not do so.
There are plenty of other references, do you want me to go through them with you? Or will you just post back links to childish reasoning again.

Respectfully,
Papa.

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

i meant to say!!!!

Hi there heres a link,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asma_bint_Marwan

I suggest you purchase a copy of Islams greatest chronicle of Mohammads life.

I read the link to the anti-christian website you supplied, but it really doesnt say much, apart from: you can pick and choose which bits you like to hear, the ones that show Mohammed in a bad light are obviously falsified(!), and the good bits only are holy.
How sad that individuals have to decieve themselves beacause they dont like what is in their own books. At least the violent supporters of Islam have the decency to not do so.
There are plenty of other references, do you want me to go through them with you? Or will you just post back links to childish reasoning again.

Respectfully,
Papa.

 

[Malsidabym]

Hi Cheese, thank you for your efforts in answering, and also thank you to Papa for adding to the discussion. The problem of course is there is no way to offer concrete evidence of what cheese says. Just like thier is no way for christians to offer concrete evidence that Jesus is the son of God and is God. Both of these views are supported by historical writings, each respective holy book, and interpretations by (what some may say "biased") the followers of each religion. And then, each can equally be challenged by others as demonstrated by the two websites mentioned already, 'answering islam' and 'answering-christianity'. Each debater offer 'evidence', 'proof', and 'facts', and then claim 'victory' in the debate. When sadly, there is no proof, only the 'belief' of the debater that they think is proof. But this is the problem, the faith of the believer, causes them to see it as proof, while the skeptic sees only an opinion, or a story that has been passed from one to another. Stories as we all know can be true, but can also be fabricated, they cannot qualify as proof. I am not saying what cheese says is wrong or right, only there is no way to prove one way or the other. What is necessary to convince someone of these things is for that person to have faith to begin with, or to be willing to make a leap of faith. I would like to add though, for you Cheese, even if your faith is wrong, if it truly in your mind and heart (and I only mean truly) gives you peace and joy and a sense of worth, then it does not matter if it's wrong.

 

[Malaikah]

Papa.
i do not understand your rejection. I quote from the link i gave you:

...this isnâd (chain of reporters) is not narrated on authority of Mujalid but by Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj and they all (other reporters in the chain) accuse Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj of forging it.[4]

It is also reported by Ibn al-Gawzi in Al-'Ilal[5] and is listed among other flawed reports.

So according to its isnâd, the report is forged - because one of its reporters is notorious for fabricating hadîth. Hence, such a story is rejected and is better off being put into the trash can.

Do you understand what this means? The story that you posted is fasle, it did not happen. A guy made it up. There is no childish reasoning involved!!

By the way, it was not an anti-christian site i gave you, its a website that was set up to defend islam against an anti-islam website (answering-islam). Sorry, i thought you got your story from that site becuase it was in the same formatting as you posted it.

I wish you would post more references so that i could explain them to you and you can see that i am not blindly defending my religion and that the prophet was not a murderer, and that refutations are not childish.

Malsidab.

Thank you. and please understand that i do not have knowledge of the whole religion, im only 17 years old. So im sorry if my replies are not good enough.

I am not saying what cheese says is wrong or right, only there is no way to prove one way or the other.

umm.. the stuff i showed you are not based only on the Quran, but on the narrations of the prophet. The methods of recording the narrations is sound, we can be VERY of certain hadiths, some are called strong hadith, we can be confident about there authenticity, others are weak hadiths, which we arent too sure about. If you dont want to take my word for it then i recommend you research a little about it.

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

Hi there malsidab,
Thats quite a fair comment you have made, though perhaps there is a qualifier. I am not linking to sites of an anti islamic nature, I only quote from the books of Islam. Do you agree that to say that the authors of Sirat Rasul Allah were falsifying some material (the bits judged by todays standards as wrong) but not others (the bits that are ok by todays standards) in its defence is a bit beyond reasoning? The book is held in the highest regard among muslims as the best chronicle of Mohammed, written even before hadith.