Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???

I'm struggling to understand your question. Do you mean which Hadith books? Or certain Hadiths?

Are you another Quranist? Do you disregard the Hadith?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ghazalah

Are you another Quranist? Do you disregard the Hadith?

he is indeed.. I have just refuted him in another thread!

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format_quote Originally Posted by MesMorial

Please refute me here and reply to my new thread "Islam Needs to "Reform"" (if you are right).

Peace.

format_quote Originally Posted by MesMorial

Ah you posted some videos. Please do not post propaganda but answer the staright-forward question you were asked. You were not asked to refute "Qur'an-Alone" but just the question.

I have already refuted you, it doesn't take very long. The Quran says to obey Allah and his prophet.. did you skip that part? I mean clearly everyone can tell that it doesn't take a great effort to deflate your argument.. a minute lecture will do!
How do you pray, fast, perform haj, give Zakat, how do you accept a message without a messenger?

Your sect is actually quite comical.. you'd be better off as anything else, frankly why take the heat of being labeled "Muslim'' when you're clearly not!

all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by MesMorial

Ah you posted some videos. Please do not post propaganda but answer the staright-forward question you were asked. You were not asked to refute "Qur'an-Alone" but just the question.

How do you know it is propaganda? Did you watch the video?

What do you hope to achieve from this topic? I'm curious, there has been a rise in members posting topics like this...

format_quote Originally Posted by all4salam

"You're next step in proving your claim is that you will need to provide evidence that the Qur'an is the only revelation that the Messenger (saw) received specifically as the verse here is general not specific by virtue of the language, in terms of the revelation encompassing everything that was revealed to the Prophet (saw). The بما in the ayah makes it clear in the language that who the الذين is referring to must, unequivocally accept all of أنزل إليك."

With the guidance of the Quran we can quickly establish that Muhammad did not receive ANY revelation from God other than the Quran. Yes the prophet was inspired by God in certain personal matter, an example of that is found in 66:3 where God inspired the prophet regarding the truth of a domestic issue. However, this was mere inspiration from God and not revelation. The difference between inspiration and revelation is that God inspires all humans (note how God inspired the mother of Moses). God also inspires the animals (example of that is in 16:68 where God tells us how He inspires the bees). This is different from revelation which is specificaly an inspired scripture which contains religious laws and prohibitions

Note here that the hadith followers uphold the hadith and sunna as the second source of Islamic law besides the Quran, and by doing so they elevate the hadith to the status of revelation.

We are told in the Quran that the prophet did not receive any revelation from God other than the Quran:

"Say (Muhammad): What thing is "Akbar Shahada" (greatest testimony)? Say: God is a Witness between me and you; this QURAN has been revealed to me by inspiration that with it I may warn you and all whom it reaches (BALAGHA)" 6:19

This testimony which God describes as "Akbar Shahada" (the Greatest Testimony) commands Muhammad to testify that He received the Quran from God. This testimony speaks of only one revelation received by Muhammad from God which is the Quran. If Muhammad truly received other revelations from God (other than the Quran), would we not find any mention of it in the Quran? Would God hide the fact that He gave Muhammad a revelation independant of the Quran and then command us to obey it?

I knew it would come to this. It wasn't a question of if, but of when. It's ok though, every single hadeeth-rejector we've had on this forum has eventually come to stop where you have now.

You have:

1) Agreed in your last post that the Prophet (saw) did receive revelation other than the Qur'an

2) Then you have the audacity of being academically dishonest in this discussion and stealing words, in fact entire paragraphs, from another website and posting them here as your own, thereby losing whatever little credibility you had left in this discussion.

Not only that, you shot yourself in the foot by first conceding your original premise in your last post to me, and then when called out about it, you steal material from another website (which is what we call plagiarism) and use it as your own, even though you know (as does everyone else reading this thread) that what you have copied and pasted here only shows your two-facedness. The irony is that you should copied and pasted something that would have replied to my question to you instead of something that goes back to try and fix a premise you've already admitted is flawed!

Now, instead of being honest in this discussion and progressing with it as you should have done you have:

1) Stolen material from another site and presented it as your own, adding nothing to the discussion. This alone is a reason enough to tell us that you have no regard or sincerity towards seeking the truth in this discussion, but you just want to make yourself feel better by trying and proving that you're correct.
2) Avoided the follow up question that I presented to you and instead replied to something that was not being asked. This shows clearly that you have no idea how to read and understand the Qur'an in Arabic, nor do you have any idea of how Arabic grammar works, nor do you know that the Qur'an is linguistically one cohesive argument as can be inferred simply by the language. What you are doing is taking part of the book, twisting it to suit what you want it to say, and then ignoring the rest of the Book. I don't need to call you out on this because Allaah himself calls out the people that do this in the Qur'an:

أفتؤمنون ببعض الكتاب وتكفرون ببعض؟

This leads me to the following conclusions:

1) That you are not honest in a discussion nor are you sincerely seeking the truth.
2) That you cannot articulate your own argument and position and must rely on other websites for your replies indicating that you have no idea what you're talking about.
3) That you have absolutely no idea about Qur'anic Arabic and grammar and this itself is enough of a reason to dismiss your arguments as baseless and void.

Have a good day!

format_quote Originally Posted by MesMorial

Did you assume I would not come prepared for "Obey Allah and His Messenger" and the usual response? The person who posted these videos is quite arrogant and insecure. Already insulting without answering the question, and just missing the point.

format_quote Originally Posted by MesMorial

The purpose of this thread was outlined in the last line on the first post (but people do not read!). The other thread is entitled "Islam Needs to "Reform"".

How do you obey the messenger if you reject hadith?
Islam needs no reform, if you can't adjust to Islam then don't be Muslim!

all the best

We are told in the Quran that the prophet did not receive any revelation from God other than the Quran:

"Say (Muhammad): What thing is "Akbar Shahada" (greatest testimony)? Say: God is a Witness between me and you; this QURAN has been revealed to me by inspiration that with it I may warn you and all whom it reaches (BALAGHA)" 6:19

I can't resist exposing the deceptiveness of the hadeeth-rejectors and their utter stupidity when it comes to the Qur'an. You guys are so ignorant of basic Quranic vocabulary and word choice!

Let me break it down. The verse from al-An'aam:

وأوحي إلي هذا القرآن لأنذركم به ومن بلغ أئنكم

The word used is وحي - which you are saying is specific to the Qur'an as revelation. Yet, this verse is a proof against you, not for you.

But for your ignorance of the Arabic language, you should have known that the words used for Musa's mother and the Bee (being as you call "inspired") are the exact same words used in the ayah in al-An'am to refer to the revelation of the Qur'an. Thus there is no difference between them in the Qur'an, they are the same exact word.

وأوحينا إلى أم موسى

وأوحى ربك إلى النحل

Meaning that the Qur'an does not differentiate between what words it uses when referring to revelation to others and to the Prophet (saw), in all three cases it is وحي. Thus proving my first point that there is other revelation that the Prophet (saw) received in addition to the Qur'an, as all of it falls under the term وحي.

You are the one trying to create a difference when it isn't there in the Qur'an by deceptively trying to use the translation of the verses of the Qur'an against each other for your personal agendas - the Qur'an uses the exact same word for the revelation of the Qur'an, the revelation to Musa's mother and the revelation to the Bee.

Since you are the one who brought up this discussion of 'وحي', simply answer this:

وما ينطق عن الهوى إن هو إلا وحي يوحى

What is the هو defined as in the verse itself? And what is the هو referring to?

Basic Arabic grammar should give you the answer. Hint: think of the word وحي

Good luck!

No, this isn't how a discussion works. You don't get the right to ask your own questions when you have failed to answer your opponents questions. You earn that right after replying to your opponents arguments.

You can't run away from answering questions, plagiarize material from elsewhere, and then sneak back in after being exposed and ask your own questions which are completely irrelevant to what we were talking about.

Either get straight and cough up the answers or this discussion is done and I'm going to lock this thread and throw it in the bin where it belongs. Or actually, I will leave it in the open so people can see what kind of insincere tactics you employ in trying to make your points.

You are the one making claims against the religion as it has been understood for a millennium and a half - the burden of bringing evidence is on you. I don't have to provide evidence for anything because my way is the established way. If you cannot bring evidence, and you will not be able to as I have already clearly shown that you are incapable of it in this thread, run along. This discussion is not for you.

format_quote Originally Posted by all4salam

Alright Murad....... Let me ask you some simple questions,

If the Prophet used to pray for protection from the Dajjal, why aren't there any ayah that speak of this individual in the Qur'an?

Also why is there not one mention of Isa (S) returning to Earth and fighting Dajjal? In fact the only place to find information about Dajjal and Al Mahdi outside the hadith is in Christian Bible.
One last question, If Imam Bukhari and others weren't COMMANDED by Allah to collect traditions of the Prophet, what would the Ummah have besides the Qur'an?

If you say that Allah instructed the hadith compilers, collecters etc. where is the evidence?

format_quote Originally Posted by all4salam

Alright Murad....... Let me ask you some simple questions,

If the Prophet used to pray for protection from the Dajjal, why aren't there any ayah that speak of this individual in the Qur'an?

Also why is there not one mention of Isa (S) returning to Earth and fighting Dajjal? In fact the only place to find information about Dajjal and Al Mahdi outside the hadith is in Christian Bible.
One last question, If Imam Bukhari and others weren't COMMANDED by Allah to collect traditions of the Prophet, what would the Ummah have besides the Qur'an?

If you say that Allah instructed the hadith compilers, collecters etc. where is the evidence?

Show me evidence in the Qur'an that the scribes were compelled to write the Qur'an. No compulsion was needed. The value of the Qur'an is self evident and people willingly preserved it to writting.

Muhammad(PBUH) had the burden of teaching by example what it means to be Muslim and how to follow Islam. How can we know what the Prophet(PBUH) did and said without a record of people who saw and heard him. How would we know what Muhammad(PBUH) did as worship if no one had preserved the eyewitness accounts? Why would there need be any compulsion or order to write such? Would not the believers have not done so on their own? Is the preserved record of less value because it was done out of love and belief, without compulsion?