Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an??? (OP)
Total number of traditions in 9 volumns of Bukhari are 7,000 plus. The number of hadiths collected and attributed to Prophet Muhammed (S) is in the hundreds of
thousands, approximately 700,000. And 99% of all these hundreds of thousands of hadiths are pure lies and fabrications which were rejected by the early Muslim scholars who thought they could figure out which hadith was authentic and which wasn't. Let us look at some of the other hadith collectors and what they collected.
(1) Malik bin Anas collected about 500 hadiths in his famous book, "Al-Muwattaa."
(2) Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, collected about 40,000 hadiths in his famous "Musnad". He chose these 40,000 hadiths from among 700,000 hadiths. In other words he thought 660,000 ahadith were un-proven lies and/or fabrications. That is, 94% lies and fabrications.
(3) Bukhari collected more than 600,000 hadiths and accepted 7,275 hadiths and considered 592,725 hadiths to be un-proven hadiths, lies and/or fabrications, that is almost 99% of what he collected.
(4)Muslem collected 300,000 hadiths and accepted only 4,000. He rejected about 296,000 which is almost 99% of his collected hadiths.
This should give an idea of how much corruption entered or tried to enter Islam from the back door.
Now we should understand why God promised to preserve, protect and safeguard His Book which is the ONLY authentic Hadith, the ONLY acceptable Hadith, the BEST HADITH - the Noble Quran. NO such guarantee was offered to the fabrications and lies of the fabricators and liars who claimed to 'improve' on the Book of Allah by 'explaining' it and called the Quran incomplete and undetailed and claimed that the Quran needs clarification by another book.
The Jews, more than a hundred year after Prophet Moses' death created Mishnah (hadith or narrations) and Gemarrah (sunna or actions). The Jews upheld these and the invented laws within them rather than the TORAH, the revealed Word of God Almighty.
Three hundred years after the passing away of Jesus, son of Virgin Mary, the Christians created the concept of trinity which is now the primary source of Christian belief in defiance of the original Bible which commanded the absolute worship of God Alone.
The Muslims, 150 to 200 years after the death of Prophet Muhammed (S), CREATED another source of their religion alongside the Noble Quran, the "Hadith & Sunnah" falsely attributed to the Prophet Muhammed in defiance of the Quran. Today most Muslims have discarded the Quran in favor of the Hadith & Sunnah.
When I first entered Islam it was by the grace of Allah and his words in the Holy Qur'an. I heard of the most elegant hadiths and found them to be very inspirational and motivating. Later on I found out other hadiths attributed to the Prophet (S), that were out of the character of Prophet Muhammed (S), and Islam. The sad thing is most Muslims would consider you kuffar for doubting or questioning Ahadith. You can go to just about any Masajid and the khutbahs will be from Ahadith and not the Qur'an. How can we say that Islam is religion of peace, and at the same time kill the apostates? I think Ahadith corrupt what Islam means...
My question is why do we blindly follow man-made hadiths over the word of the Lord of the Worlds?
Your argument is flat akh... Since you adhere and cling to the hadith so tightly..... Would you let your 6 year old daughter marry the most pious of any Muslim man who was 40? huh??? That is Sunnah right?
You fool. If you knew the traditions of the time of the Prophet PBUH you wouldn't say such a thing. You have no knowledge so what's the point discuss such an issue with you, if it's beyond what your mind can comprehend?
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
if i had to entrust my daughter to any man, the list would be very short indeed.
to entrust her to a man who was endangered would require the most upmost of belief.
that said i too have no understanding of tradition.
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
f i had to entrust my daughter to any man, the list would be very short indeed.
to entrust her to a man who was endangered would require the most upmost of belief.
that said i too have no understanding of tradition.
He's talking about the marriage of Aisha to the Prophet PBUH, where in Hadith it states her age.
Tradition at the time of the Prophet was it was okay to marry at a young age, but if the brother had enough knowledge on this matter he would know she wasn't married at the age of six, but engaged, and the marriage was completed when she was 9. To emphasise on the point, before the Prophet asked for Aisha's hand, she was already engaged to someone else. It was the norm.
Hadiths like these contradict the Qur'an. Be careful what you attribute to the Prophet (S).
format_quote Originally Posted by all4salam
Say: I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. Quran 46 : 9 Say: "As to the knowledge of the time, it is with Allah alone: I am but a plain warner." 67 : 26
Say: "The Unseen is only for Allah (to know)..." 10: 20
Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden (unseen)...." 6 : 50
Who is more true in statement than Allah? 4 : 87
No greeting is appropriate:
Why we Muslims continue to respond is senseless you will not be persuaded by evidence.
It is very apparent that no response will suffice and you continue to fail to
answer basic fiqh al ibadah questions.
How do you perform Salah with just the Quran? Provide the ayah for the movements.
How do you peform Wudu with just the Quran? Provide the ayah for the prerequistes.
How do you perform Mīrāth (ʿlmu al-farāʾiḍ علم الفرائض ) Inheritance.
The practicing Muslims will be waiting endlessly. The intentional misquoting and attributing the Sahih to contradictions with the Quran is apparent who you and cohorts are. You will not address any questions because it only reveals your intentions.
WE CONTINUE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS FITNA BY RESPONDING!
CONTINUING THIS MAKES US COMPLICIT!
Last edited by sabr*; 02-23-2011 at 10:02 PM.
Lā ilāha illā-llāhu waḥdahu lā sharīka lahu lahu-l-mulku
Wa lahu-l-hamdu yuḥyi Wa yumītu Wa huwa ḥayyu-llā yamūtu abadan abada
ḏū-l-jalāli wa-l-ikrām, biyadihi-l-khayr
wa huwa ‘alā kulli Shay’in qadīr.
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
format_quote Originally Posted by Ghazalah
You fool
Sister I would die a thousand times over to protect you, I have nothing but respect for all my brothers and sisters in faith. Why must I be a fool, I asked a question and in return I get apologetics and philosophical arguments. The Qur'an is the criterion let's judge by that.
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
The qur'an tells us to follow the example of the holy prophet (saw) what would be the point in it telling us to follow his example if it wasn't preserved. This would be an error if we followed what you're saying because the qur'an would be telling us to follow something that no longer exists.
Last edited by Salahudeen; 02-25-2011 at 07:41 PM.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
How do you perform Salah with just the Quran? Provide the ayah for the movements.
The Quran doesn't give a step by step to salah.
The hadith ALSO DO NOT OFFER STEP BY STEP instructions to salah. There are hadith that contridict each other as relating to the salah.
oh... Need examples???
Please remind yourself of the famous, weird tale of the Prophet ascending to heavens to meet with Allah, the so-called Me'raaj (the word is non-existent in the Qur'an). Is not Allah Omnipresent?
The "Imams" of Hadith want us to believe that Allah ordained 50 ritual prayers daily for Muslims on that occasion. As the exalted Prophet was descending from the highest sky, Prophet Moses told him of the impossibility of the situation and sent Muhammad back again and again. Imagine the Prophet bargaining with God! Repeated visits to and fro then bring the number down to 40, 30, 20, 10, (elsewhere, from 50 down to half and again to another half and so on), finally to 5! Allah also said,
“These are five and these are fifty. I do not alter My Word.” Moses a. s. wanted him to make one more trip but Muhammad said, “I feel shy of my Lord” (to go back and bargain any further.)
So, neither Allah nor Rasool had any idea of human limitations. Had Moses not intervened, the Ummah would be praying a non-stop 24 hours day and night. Thank Moses a. s. for being the instructor of Allah and Rasool. Thank him for saving Islam from their blunder. What mockery! Think!
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
format_quote Originally Posted by all4salam
Sister I would die a thousand times over to protect you, I have nothing but respect for all my brothers and sisters in faith. Why must I be a fool, I asked a question and in return I get apologetics and philosophical arguments. The Qur'an is the criterion let's judge by that.
Apologies.
But I will no longer participate in this thread, the answers you are looking for are quite clear and there's nothing left to discuss, I pray that Allah SWT opens your heart. Ameen.
How do you peform Wudu with just the Quran? Provide the ayah for the prerequistes.
Again the Qur'an does'nt give the step by steps to wudu......
Neither does the Hadith... need proof?
Anas said: The Prophet used to do a new Wudhu (ablution) for every Namaz. (Bukhari vol 1 pg 35)
Ibn Abbas said: Rasool slept for a while – went to the Masjid and prayed (‘offered’ Namaz) without Wudhu. (Bukhari, Kitabul Wudhu)
So which one is it?
- Rasool said, “Renew Wudhu after eating anything cooked on fire.” (Muslim vol 1 pg 486) - BUT – Ibn Abbas says, “Rasoolullah ate a roasted goat shoulder and then prayed without ablution.” (Same vol 1 pg 488)
Bukhari (Kitab-us-Salat, vol 1 pg 93) narrates four Ahadith that the Rasool used to raise his hands up to the ears before bowing and also on rising from ‘Attahayyaat --.’ Why don’t the majority of Muslims do it?
Rasoolullah never used to raise hands in prayers except when praying for rains. (Bukhari vol 1 page 125)
There are more hadiths that clearly contradict others. Explain these contradictions please...
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
Umm, no. One thing that does keep this Ummah divided though are people like you who think they're qualified to generalize all hadith like this.
See the thing is I want to discuss this with other Muslims but they're unwiiling to look at hadiths critically. You would think that adults put emotions aside and have an honest discussion about an important topic. How the Hell am I dividing the Ummah???? No one has answered my questions, only defending the hadith with philosophical arguments.
The last sermon of the Prophet delivered immediately after the Hajj (tul Vida) has been the most witnessed Hadeeth i.e. maximum numbers of people from far and near were present as it was the time of Hajj. According to one estimate there were 1,40,000 believers. At the same time this has also been the most distorted Hadeeth. If a Hadeeth witnessed by so many people could have been distorted to this extent then how could anybody vouch for the authenticity of other Ahadeeth. Following are the three versions of the "SAHEEH" Ahadeeth. Just decide for yourself how 'Saheeh' these Saheeh Ahadeeth are.
1- First version, " I left for you what if you hold up
to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and
my Family. (Muslim 44/4, Nu2408; Ibn Hanbal 4/366;
darimi 23/1, nu 3319. )
This is the version made up by the Shiites.
2-Second version, "I left for you what if you hold up
to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and
my Sunnah". (Muwatta, 46/3)
This is the version made up by the Sunni Muslims.
3- Third version, "I left for you what if you hold up
to, you will never be misguided, the BOOK OF GOD."
(Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; Ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud
11/56.)
This third one is not to be believed by anybody. In
fact this one is in conformity with Quran!
03.103 YUSUFALI: And hold fast, all together, by the
rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not
divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude
Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He
joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye
became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit
of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah
make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
format_quote Originally Posted by all4salam
Your argument is flat akh... Since you adhere and cling to the hadith so tightly..... Would you let your 6 year old daughter marry the most pious of any Muslim man who was 40? huh??? That is Sunnah right? Of course if a fly falls in your drink you dip it, then eat it right? These hadiths are what has the Ummah divided. What makes the Christians claim of authenticity of the Gospels less valid than people who insist that ALL hadithed deemed Sahih is the verbatum actions, saying, etc of Rasulullah (S) no matter what the Qur'an says otherwise.
I was not making an argument, I was simply asking you a question. I am not going to engage you in emotional arguments about what I would or would not do.
Either you will answer my question straight forward, or you will continue to avoid it altogether as you have been doing.
Your inability to reply to the question speaks much louder than any counter arguments you can possibly bring.
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
Re: Do Muslims Rely More on Sahih Bukhari Ahadith than the Qur'an???
format_quote Originally Posted by Ghazalah
He's talking about the marriage of Aisha to the Prophet PBUH, where in Hadith it states her age.
Tradition at the time of the Prophet was it was okay to marry at a young age, but if the brother had enough knowledge on this matter he would know she wasn't married at the age of six, but engaged, and the marriage was completed when she was 9. To emphasise on the point, before the Prophet asked for Aisha's hand, she was already engaged to someone else. It was the norm.
wow, i had no idea things happened like that.. my ignorance is plane for all to see lol
lol foolish to speak of things i didnt even know about.
format_quote Originally Posted by R Khan
Mash'allah that brother is a scholar?
i went red in the cheeks after realising my stupidity
The Quran doesn't give a step by step to salah.
The hadith ALSO DO NOT OFFER STEP BY STEP instructions to salah. There are hadith that contridict each other as relating to the salah.
oh... Need examples???
Please remind yourself of the famous, weird tale of the Prophet ascending to heavens to meet with Allah, the so-called Me'raaj (the word is non-existent in the Qur'an). Is not Allah Omnipresent?
The "Imams" of Hadith want us to believe that Allah ordained 50 ritual prayers daily for Muslims on that occasion. As the exalted Prophet was descending from the highest sky, Prophet Moses told him of the impossibility of the situation and sent Muhammad back again and again. Imagine the Prophet bargaining with God! Repeated visits to and fro then bring the number down to 40, 30, 20, 10, (elsewhere, from 50 down to half and again to another half and so on), finally to 5! Allah also said,
“These are five and these are fifty. I do not alter My Word.” Moses a. s. wanted him to make one more trip but Muhammad said, “I feel shy of my Lord” (to go back and bargain any further.)
So, neither Allah nor Rasool had any idea of human limitations. Had Moses not intervened, the Ummah would be praying a non-stop 24 hours day and night. Thank Moses a. s. for being the instructor of Allah and Rasool. Thank him for saving Islam from their blunder. What mockery! Think!
my apologies for not responding sooner Akhi.
as a revert, i find that sometimes some ahadeeth seem a bit odd or even sometimes contradictory at initial glance. however some of the scholars that i turn to, eg, Dr Bilal Philps, Mufti Ismail Menk of Zimbabwe, explain the beauty and brilliance of Islam and the revelations delivered by Rasulullah. my time is limited, so permit me to expound on the hadith you just quoted.
Allah knows EVERYTHING that's going to happen. Prophet Moses, pbuh, spoke with Allah often, VERY often in the Torah. yet Muhammad ibn Abdullah,pbuh, just once. Moses,pbuh, was befriending Rasulullah,pbuh, and sending him back to Allah! we get a glimpse at how magnanimous Moses was. Allah was giving Moses,pbuh, and Rasulullah,pbuh, some bonding time and Moses,pbuh, was the instrument that Allah used to get the prayers down to the proper number. it was planned! Moses,pbuh, is mentioned MORE in the Quran than Rasulullah! why shouldn't Rasulullah,pbuh, have been given an "opportunity" to be schooled by him? AND Rasulullah got to talk to Allah an extra 9 times!
imho, it's a Glorious Hadith!
May Allah help you find that which you seek!
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
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