Some Muslim schools 'make children despise the West': Ban on cricket and Harry Potter

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Muezzin said:
It seemed more like your interpretation of his interpretation if you see where I'm going. I've always been taught that that particular teaching means not to take non-Muslims as very close friends or protectors, as opposed to never being friends with any non-Muslims, ever.
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Ended up going significantly farther afield than anticipated, but it seems like it's given Dawud time to fill out the post with some more quotes.

Hate I admit is a pretty strong word. Dislike and occassionally disgust are probably better but then everyone has a different opinion.

I suppose I'm struggling to see what there is to like about the UK from a Muslim's point of view, Islam is a whole way of life and is practically as far from the 'native' way of life as it could be. How would you describe the feelings among the Ummah for our way of life?

Your interpretation of 60:4 would also be appreciated.

(I had intended this post to be good. Oh well.)
 
Muezzin said:
Read my first post of this thread. The things they count as 'breeding hatred' are ridiculous. It's entirely the wrong conclusion to draw. It is closer to the truth to say that perhaps this causes Muslim children to become socially excluded from non-Muslims, or contributes to this. There's a world of difference between social exclusion and actively teaching hate.
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Actually Civitas didnt count those things as breeding hate. I guess it teaches me to not use Daily Mail as source.

Ironically thats along the lines what Civitas said about these cases, that it creates a ghetto mentality that will make it difficult for them to function in British society.

This is what they count as hate for example:
In a small number of cases, Denis MacEoin has found evidence of links between Muslim schools and those advocating jihad, for example in the case of Feversham College, Bradford of which the website links to islamworld.net, that contains a section of papers on jihad. In one of these papers, Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, writes: 'Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim... [Jihad] involves all possible efforts that are necessary to dismantle the power of the enemies of Islam including beating them, plundering their wealth, destroying their places of worship and smashing their idols... Today, my brother, the Muslims as you know are forced to be subservient before others and are ruled by disbelievers... Hence in this situation it becomes the duty of each and every Muslim to make jihad... Therefore prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death.' (p.99). Themina Ahmed, the creator of the history curriculum for the two Islamic Shaksiyah Foundation schools, in Slough and Haringey, North London, has written: 'The world will witness the death of the criminal capitalist nation of America and all other [infidel] states when the army of jihad is unleashed upon them.'

If Ofsted, the official regulator who is not some right-wing think tank like the organisation that carried out this report, comes to the same conclusion, I will believe Ofsted.
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The question however wasnt if you believe them, but what is the correct way to criticise without breeding hatred towards muslims.
 
Foxhole said:
This reminds me of a joke my brother told me years ago ...

"That movie was so bad I walked out on it three times ..."

You hate the UK, yet you plan to stay, have children, and teach them to hate it, too?

Do your blood pressure a favor ... emigrate.
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check the blog, i'm going as soon as i'm able
 
Azy said:
Ended up going significantly farther afield than anticipated, but it seems like it's given Dawud time to fill out the post with some more quotes.

Hate I admit is a pretty strong word. Dislike and occassionally disgust are probably better but then everyone has a different opinion.

I suppose I'm struggling to see what there is to like about the UK from a Muslim's point of view, Islam is a whole way of life and is practically as far from the 'native' way of life as it could be. How would you describe the feelings among the Ummah for our way of life?

Your interpretation of 60:4 would also be appreciated.

(I had intended this post to be good. Oh well.)
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To be fair (and to completely sidestep your question - at least I'm honest :p) that's a subject for another thread.

It's also way too subjective for me to answer without making a pig's ear of everything, giving you the wrong idea, and doing a disservice to Muslims in Britain.

Suomipoika said:
Actually Civitas didnt count those things as breeding hate. I guess it teaches me to not use Daily Mail as source.
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It also teaches me not to jump to conclusions.

Ironically thats along the lines what Civitas said about these cases, that it creates a ghetto mentality that will make it difficult for them to function in British society.
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That is perhaps closer to the truth, in my opinion.

This is what they count as hate for example:
In a small number of cases, Denis MacEoin has found evidence of links between Muslim schools and those advocating jihad, for example in the case of Feversham College, Bradford of which the website links to islamworld.net, that contains a section of papers on jihad. In one of these papers, Hassan al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, writes: 'Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim... [Jihad] involves all possible efforts that are necessary to dismantle the power of the enemies of Islam including beating them, plundering their wealth, destroying their places of worship and smashing their idols... Today, my brother, the Muslims as you know are forced to be subservient before others and are ruled by disbelievers... Hence in this situation it becomes the duty of each and every Muslim to make jihad... Therefore prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death.' (p.99). Themina Ahmed, the creator of the history curriculum for the two Islamic Shaksiyah Foundation schools, in Slough and Haringey, North London, has written: 'The world will witness the death of the criminal capitalist nation of America and all other [infidel] states when the army of jihad is unleashed upon them.'
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Hmm... So, the website contains a link to another website, which, amongst other things, contains articles about jihad? I see the point they're trying to make, but again, to me, it's not evidence that the school 'teaches' hate. To me, it looks more like sloppy screening - did the web staff not check the content of the sites they were linking to? That sort of thing.

What Civitas seems to be implying is that the school knew exactly what they were linking to, yadda yadda. To get to the truth of that matter, you'd have to interview the headteacher, the people responsible for the website etc.

The question however wasnt if you believe them, but what is the correct way to criticise without breeding hatred towards muslims.
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Well, criticism free of sensationalism and hyperbole would be a start.
 
Muezzin said:
Hmm... So, the website contains a link to another website, which, amongst other things, contains articles about jihad? I see the point they're trying to make, but again, to me, it's not evidence that the school 'teaches' hate. To me, it looks more like sloppy screening - did the web staff not check the content of the sites they were linking to? That sort of thing.

What Civitas seems to be implying is that the school knew exactly what they were linking to, yadda yadda. To get to the truth of that matter, you'd have to interview the headteacher, the people responsible for the website etc.
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Something I feel pointing out that if a school ever linked to a site with similar hate material towards non-whites and non-mainstream in here, heads would be rolling by the dozens in the following hunt for the guilty ones by the local authorities. Maybe its different for the UK.

You also missed the last sentence about Themina Ahmed. Can you imagine the outrage if someone who spoke like that about non-whites and non-mainstream was behind history curriculum in schools?

But there is actually hole chapter in the study about hate and muslim schools, which among other things, underlines that the hate cases were in minority.
 
Suomipoika said:
Something I feel pointing out that if a school ever linked to a site with similar hate material towards non-whites and non-mainstream in here, heads would be rolling by the dozens in the following hunt for the guilty ones by the local authorities. Maybe its different for the UK.
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Fair point.

Still, I'd tend to pin it on faulty screening. But that's me.

You also missed the last sentence about Themina Ahmed.
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So I did.

Can you imagine the outrage if someone who spoke like that about non-whites and non-mainstream was behind history curriculum in schools?
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Yes. Ofsted will have something to say about this, whether the teacher is Muslim or not.

But there is actually hole chapter in the study about hate and muslim schools, which among other things, underlines that the hate cases were in minority.
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Do you have a link to the study? I've probably missed it in the thread.
 
Greetings,

Themina Ahmed, the creator of the history curriculum for the two Islamic Shaksiyah Foundation schools, in Slough and Haringey, North London, has written: 'The world will witness the death of the criminal capitalist nation of America and all other [infidel] states when the army of jihad is unleashed upon them.'
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How charming. :hmm:

No-one who talks like that should be allowed anywhere near the education system.

Peace
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Shoudn't be allowed in the country, if you ask me.:raging:
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why not? its a taste of your medicine, you make the angry face when your own countries are constantly doing the very same thing your so mad against, how many goverments have your peaceful democratic countries over-thrown? i mean if thats not a hypocrite then i really dont know what it is.
 
The_Prince said:
why not? its a taste of your medicine, you make the angry face when your own countries are constantly doing the very same thing your so mad against, how many goverments have your peaceful democratic countries over-thrown? i mean if thats not a hypocrite then i really dont know what it is.
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For one last time, I do not and never have supported overthrowing anyone let alone by means of war.
 
Themina Ahmed, the creator of the history curriculum for the two Islamic Shaksiyah Foundation schools, in Slough and Haringey, North London, has written: 'The world will witness the destruction of the communist nation of the USSR and all other [tyranical] states when the forces of liberty are unleashed upon them.'


Themina Ahmed, the creator of the history curriculum for the two Islamic Shaksiyah Foundation schools, in Slough and Haringey, North London, has written: 'The world will witness the demise of the repressive dictatorship of Iraq and all other [tyrant] states when the forces of democracy are unleashed upon them.'





See what I did there??? Isnt that what America has done throughout the ages? I was too lazy to do Iran but don't worry, give it a year and you'll hear it from our government themselves.


You don't like the rhetoric because it is directed against you. Guess how people like the Iranians and etc feel? Oh wait... the secular government of America can say this but come a religious guy and OMGZOR he iz NUTZ!@# :rollseyes
 
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Greetings,
AntiKarateKid said:
You don't like the rhetoric because it is directed against you.
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1. It's not directed at me.


2. I don't like it because it's thuggish, ignorant and deeply unhelpful. Anyone in charge of children's education ought to know better.


3. Themina Ahmed is a woman.


Peace
 
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czgibson said:
Greetings,



1. It's not directed at me.


2. I don't like it because it's thuggish, ignorant and deeply unhelpful. Anyone in charge of children's education ought to know better.


Peace
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Granted it is blunt. But how is it thuggish?

Unless you assume that the phrase "armies of jihad" is necessarily militaristic.

But I dont think I need to remind anyone here that "jihad" means struggle and consists, among other things, of scholarly refuting the core beliefs of the enemy, thus destroying it and its ideology.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
For one last time, I do not and never have supported overthrowing anyone let alone by means of war.
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thats what you all say, but then we see you out on the streets celebrating and giving parades for the soldiers who take part in these illegal wars, i mean who the hell are you bloody trying to kid here???? oh yes im against the war, but im gonna treat the ones who do the war as heroes! its the soldiers who are holding the guns, driving the humvees, the tanks, the jets, its them who are shooting, bombing, torturing, abusing, they are the ones causing the carnage, so unless you guys are willing to condemn the soldiers, then you are also part of the problem, you can say you dont support the war, but sorry, supporting the terrorists who wage the war is supporting the war, theres no difference.
 
Greetings,
The_Prince said:
thats what you all say, but then we see you out on the streets celebrating and giving parades for the soldiers who take part in these illegal wars, i mean who the hell are you bloody trying to kid here???? oh yes im against the war, but im gonna treat the ones who do the war as heroes! its the soldiers who are holding the guns, driving the humvees, the tanks, the jets, its them who are shooting, bombing, torturing, abusing, they are the ones causing the carnage, so unless you guys are willing to condemn the soldiers, then you are also part of the problem, you can say you dont support the war, but sorry, supporting the terrorists who wage the war is supporting the war, theres no difference.
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Supporting the soldiers is very different from supporting the war. If you're so literal-minded as to be unable to see that, that's your issue and nobody else's.

Were you one of the morons protesting in Luton last week, by any chance?

Peace
 
AntiKarateKid said:
Granted it is blunt. But how is it thuggish?

Unless you assume that the phrase "armies of jihad" is necessarily militaristic.

But I dont think I need to remind anyone here that "jihad" means struggle and consists, among other things, of scholarly refuting the core beliefs of the enemy, thus destroying it and its ideology.
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Yes, she surely meant scholarly refuting. :rollseyes
 
Examples include web forums forbidding Muslims from reading Harry Potter books, playing chess or cricket and listening to Western music.
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Western music and somehow even chess, I understand. But Harry Potter and cricket? What’s wrong with that?
 
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