Can the Quran stand the test?

[malayloveislam]

But some of these leave the same question with regard to the Qur'an as is frequently put to Christians regarding the inspiration of their scriptures, namely how do you know that you got it right? Let me pick just one of your means you gave and show how I might apply that question to the Qur'an:

In these instances Muhammad has some sort of sense as to what it is that God wants placed in the Book he is giving Muhammad, but it isn't really a recitation afterall. Specifically there are no words. The feeling that Muhammad has ultimately does get expressed in words, but the original form of the communication is, as you put it above, not words but feelings and sensations. And as you further go on to say, human language is limited. So, is there really any way, even in Arabic, for Muhammad to put into words all that was revealed to him? And I don't mean that next question as an attack on the Qur'an, but really the opposite: Isn't the Qur'an actually going to come up short in communicating in human language what Allah made known to Muhammad?

Those words of G-d had been installed in his heart by archangel Gabriel (pbuh) the G-d emissary. G-d use human language to transmit the message because the message is for human-being (and genies). The messenger is a human. He is the messenger to human-being and using human language, which in this case is Arabic. Prophet Moses (pbuh) spread G-d message in Hebrew, prophet Abraham (pbuh) with Chaldean, prophet Jesus (pbuh) with Aramic. We believe the same archangel Gabriel (pbuh) conveys the revelation to prophet Abraham (pbuh) and also to prophet Jesus (pbuh). Furthermore only prophet Muhammad (pbuh) receives revelation, his companions or disciples never receives any revelation. A person who receives the revelation must be a prophet, before appointed as G-d's messenger. He must be a trustworthy (Amanah), speaking the truth never lying (Siddiq), delivering the message without alteration (Tabligh), possessing wisdom (Fathanah), check back the characteristics that must be possessed by a prophet in Islam. We believe all prophets have those 4 characteristics and they are impossible telling lies (Kizzib), hiding the message (Kitman), breaking the promises (khianah), and ignorant (jahl). Also one other characteristics which is normal for human-being (Aradhul-Basyariah), they eat, they married, they go to toilet, having children and descendants, and others.

The reason why we Muslims always emphasize that G-d acts differently from human-being is to show that He is different from Human-being and to prevent personification of G-d. It will eventually leads to idolatry because we still can't escape from imagining Him with the images that we see in the Earth. We will think that G-d has mouth like human. G-d has hands, and others. That is why we cannot imagine how He communicate even with certain prophets like prophet Moses (pbuh), He is different from any creatures, and we do not know how He acts.

Anything that exists in the Universe is His creation and new. They will eventually die. G-d will never die, He is without space, unbounded by time, He already exist since before the beginning and will continue to be in existance forever. He posses the knowledge of the past, present, and future. For more information, I suggest you to find a translation of the book written by Syeikh As-Syaarawi in English for reference, it is entitled Mu'jizatul Quran - "The Miracle of Quran". I have a copy of this book but unfortunately it is in Malay and not English. It was translated from Arabic by the Islamic Department of Malaysia.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) receives revelation through several different ways but the emissary (pbuh) conveying the message from the Guarded Tablet (Lauh Mahfuz) is Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). Those words of G-d were carved in the Guarded Tablet (Lauh Mahfuz) in the place that we can't imagine with our bounded mind. No creatures can ever approach the place, even the emissary of G-d, archangel Gabriel (pbuh) himself too can't even approach the place. The revelation is sometimes conveyed through recitation process like in Surah al-Falaq where the archangel (pbuh) asking prophet (pbuh) to recite the verses. Sometimes through the straight installment into his heart, and sometimes with the sounds of bells where the prophet (pbuh) feel "a weight" on him.

* Again we do not know how does the Guarded Tablet looks like, and we can't imagine it with our bounded mind. How the words being carved or written in the Guarded Tablet, only G-d the One who knows.

The words were brought by Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) guarded with thousand of other angels from Sidratul-Muntaha, refer to Surah al-Qadr with its interpretation. When Ramadhan every year comes, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will still have to recite everything in front of Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) in order to check whether there is any inaccuracy in the words or not. So basically, it is not only sense and feeling.

Here are some brief explanation from a Muslim. Mind sharing how Gospels were revealed to the apostles like Paul, Peter, and etc. Also if you have the accounts about the revelation being revealed to prophet Jesus (pbuh) or G-d Jesus if it is in Christians perspective? Thanks.

 

[malayloveislam]

I appreciate you listing all of these in one place. I guess I was operating under a false understanding that the same methodology was used continuously throughout the process of Muhammad's receiving of the Qur'an.

Thanks Grace, but that is not my own listing. I just read them and typing it again here for viewers to read .

 

[Grace Seeker]

Those words of G-d had been installed in his heart by archangel Gabriel (pbuh) the G-d emissary. G-d use human language to transmit the message because the message is for human-being (and genies).

Thanks for this clarification. Based on what you had said above...

1. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) installing the revelation straight into prophet Muhammad (pbuh) heart. In this case, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sees nothing. He only feels and sense that it (the Quranic verses) are already in his heart.

I thought you were saying that the revelation was not always in words. But I see now that you didn't mean for me to draw that inference from what you had said. So, it wasn't just a feeling or sensation that Muhammad then put into words, but actual words that were placed in Muhammad's heart. And I'm sure even that langauge is meant metaphorically, as no surgeon could have opened Muhammad up to retrieve those words.

But I now have another question based on what you wrote later:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) receives revelation through several different ways but the emissary (pbuh) conveying the message from the Guarded Tablet (Lauh Mahfuz) is Archangel Gabriel (pbuh). Those words of G-d were carved in the Guarded Tablet (Lauh Mahfuz) in the place that we can't imagine with our bounded mind. No creatures can ever approach the place, even the emissary of G-d, archangel Gabriel (pbuh) himself too can't even approach the place.

If Gabriel can't approach the place where the Guarded Tablet is kept, how does Gabriel get the message to convey it to Muhammad?

Again we do not know how does the Guarded Tablet looks like, and we can't imagine it with our bounded mind. How the words being carved or written in the Guarded Tablet, only G-d the One who knows.

But they are actual words? We may not know how they are recorded, but this statement does imply that, though they are kept in some place that we can't imagine with our bounded mind, they are actual recorded words of some type. Do you know what language they are written in?

Mind sharing how Gospels were revealed to the apostles like Paul, Peter, and etc. Also if you have the accounts about the revelation being revealed to prophet Jesus (pbuh) or G-d Jesus if it is in Christians perspective? Thanks.

This answer might vary depending on who you ask. There are some Christians who would say that every word of scripture was dictated to its human author by the Holy Spirit. And others would say that there was no revelation involved at all, that they are just human works which the church decided to accept and codify. And there are going to be many people at various places in between.

As far as the Gospels themselves go, there are exactly four which are recognized as legitimate. None of them were recorded by Paul nor Peter, but by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. We don't actually know how it is that they came to write them. The method of that process, if it was ever known, has been lost to history. Luke is the only one who gives us any hint of the process by which he produced his Gospel narrative:

Luke 1
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Tradition tells us that both John and Matthew were disciples of Jesus and, therefore, would have been eyewitnesses to many (but not all) of the things which they write about. Even though it was probably the last of the Gospels to be penned to paper, I find the evidence regarding John having been a disciple of Jesus more compelling than I do for Matthew, as we have John's own disciples writing of having learned this from John himself, while the attestation for Matthew is much more removed.

But as far as the process by which we consider them to be God's word, for many that hinges on a single line from one of Paul's letters to Timothy, another Christian missionary:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.(2 Timothy 3:16-17)

The thing is that it is most likely that when Paul wrote this that he was not thinking of any of the Gospel accounts but rather of what we today call the Old Testament scriptures. However, most Christians today would hold that if it is true of the OT, that it must by extension also be true of the NT.

That argument can of course be considered a circular argument were it not for what Peter said about Paul's writings:

2 Peter 3
15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Here Peter gives Paul's writings the status of scripture, so even if Paul was not referring to his own work, and I doubt that he was, Peter (and presumably the rest of the NT church) did consider them thusly.

I'm sorry, that doesn't really give you much of an answer as to how they were inspired, only why they are understood to be inspired. It is basically an article of faith that they would have been inspired by the Holy Spirit because Jesus promised us that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth:

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (John 16:13)

 

[syilla]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

:salamext:

for me...

It is the process of learning the quran...it never comes to end and it is sooo hard...but every qari or qariah will still try their best to perfect their recitation (no human being can create something like that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7EDWVeXXEU&feature=related

 

[جوري]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

I'll write one paragraph of a very refractory Querish who had no interest in leaving their paganist ways, even in spite of a few tribes of Christian and Jews in their midst..

with a popular fair approaching, some people from amongst qurish approached al-walid bin al-mughira, a man of some standing, he addressed them ' the time of the fair has come around again, and the representatives of the Arabs will come to you. They have heard about this fellow of yours, so agree upon one opinion without dispute so that none will give the lie to the other, they said, 'give us your opinion about him' and he replied, 'No you speak and I will listen' 'so they said, he is a kahin (clairvoyant) al-walid responded, 'By God, he isn't that for he hasn't the unintelligent murmuring and rhymed speech of the kahin. 'then he is possessed'. 'no, he is not that, we have seen possessed ones, and here there is no choking or spasmodic movement or whispering'. 'then he is a poet', 'no he is no poet, for we know poetry of all its forms and meters' 'then he is a sorcerer' 'no, we have seen sorcerers and their sorcery, and here there is no spitting and no knots'' ''then what are we to say?'' ''by God his speech is sweet, his is as a palm tree whose branches are fruitful, and everything you have said would be known as false'. ''the nearest thing to the truth, is that you are saying, he is a sahir (magician) who has brought a message by which to separate a man from his father, or from his wife, or from his family.
we find the same in the case of abu bakr who built a mosque next to his home and devotes himself to Quran and prayer. the polytheists approached Ibn Addaghinna, and asked him to prevent abu bakr from reading the QUran, because amongst other things women and children were known to eavesdrop on his recitation, and they'd naturally be very susceptible to its influence'

excerptedby me from 'The history of the QUranic text' page 51

 

[malayloveislam]

Thanks for this clarification. Based on what you had said above... I thought you were saying that the revelation was not always in words. But I see now that you didn't mean for me to draw that inference from what you had said. So, it wasn't just a feeling or sensation that Muhammad then put into words, but actual words that were placed in Muhammad's heart. And I'm sure even that language is meant metaphorically, as no surgeon could have opened Muhammad up to retrieve those words.

Peace Grace,

Only G-d knows how those words being installed into prophet's Muhammad (pbuh) heart. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh), the G-d's noble emissary is not in physical form when he installed the revelation (Quranic verses). Remember that angels were created from light elements by G-d. Human physical eyes can't see the process.

Yes, sometimes it is not in words but every Ramadhan holy month of every year during prophet Muhammad (pbuh) lifetime, archangel Gabriel (pbuh) will descend and checking those verses whether they were revealed with the sound of bells, installed into his heart, or recited and following recitation-memorization by heart process. The words will come out from prophet (pbuh) mouth under the supervision of the archangel (pbuh) with the permission of G-d.

We are certain that prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is not lying because many people had witnessed how prophet Muhammad (pbuh) behave during his lifetime. And many of his companions and disciples still alive after he passed away. Some of them becoming the governors of certain Muslim areas like Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali (G-d be please with them all). Also others who had been his scribes like Zaid Bin Thabit, Abdullah Bin Zubair, and etc. His life account too is not obscure and we know how he died. He died in the age 63 years old in the house of our mother Aisya (G-d be please with her) in front of his companions, disciples, and other Muslims. You may have to check back his life account from proper sources, not only those brief stories by Orientalists. They might left something in their historical narration.

Concerning those verses from the revelation including the verses from this Surah An-Najmu 3-4 being recited by prophet Muhammad (pbuh), again refer back to the characteristics possessed by prophets of Islam. From Adam to Muhammad (pbut).

3. Nor does he (prophet Muhammad) say (aught) (his own) Desire

4. It is no less than revelation sent down to him.

(translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, English equivalent might be inaccurate, refer back to Arabic text)

These verses using the word "he" referring to prophet Muhammad (pbuh). How can a person saying something and then referring back to himself? Unless if he follow someone speaking. Like you speak something about your friend, and you ask him to say exactly what you said. You may say something to your friend say, "you are a butcher", and your friend will repeat it again, "you are a butcher", but it is referring to himself.

But I now have another question based on what you wrote later:If Gabriel can't approach the place where the Guarded Tablet is kept, how does Gabriel get the message to convey it to Muhammad?

Only G-d knows, it is His job there, He works with His mysterious way. We do not know where is that holy place located except Him, we do not know how He convey the message to the Archangel (pbuh) and we can not speculate more than what we had heard. Everything is in the knowledge of G-d, and how He execute his acts is unknown to us, only He is the One who knows.

But they are actual words? We may not know how they are recorded, but this statement does imply that, though they are kept in some place that we can't imagine with our bounded mind, they are actual recorded words of some type. Do you know what language they are written in?

Only G-d knows what language it is. The message is transmitted by the emissary (pbuh) to the prophets (pbuh) according to the languages spoken by the prophets. When the message revealed to prophet Moses (pbuh), it is Hebrew. When the message revealed to prophet Jesus (pbuh), it is Aramaic, when it is to prophet Abraham (pbuh), it is in Chaldean. When you check back human early civilization, which area had developed in early civilization? I had checked in academic text-books that, it is in Mesopotamia. Those holy prophets are the descents of Mesopotamians (the Semites).

I might be not good in explaining, and if any brother and sister in Islam wanted to correct or adding something, feel free to do so. We learn from each other and I feel sick with Orientalists deceiving and telling our Western friends who had done nothing wrong to others false informations. As always, G-d knows everything :thumbs_up.

 

[malayloveislam]

This answer might vary depending on who you ask. There are some Christians who would say that every word of scripture was dictated to its human author by the Holy Spirit. And others would say that there was no revelation involved at all, that they are just human works which the church decided to accept and codify. And there are going to be many people at various places in between.

Thanks Grace. So this indicates that the apostles of god Jesus were writing the gospels from what had been dictated by the Holy Spirit. I'm still not clear what exactly is Holy Spirit to Christians? Is he an angel, a god, merely a roaming spirit or G-d himself to Christians?

We Muslims recognize Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) as the one who conveys the message of G-d to prophets (pbut). He also conveys the annunciation of the birth of prophet Jesus (pbuh) to mother Maryam (G-d be please to her). He is not G-d, but G-d's creation (humble slave) created from the light elements.

Also this indicates that there might be no revelation at all, the gospels were written by human where the Church accept and codify it as the scripture. Do you mean the gospels were copied by someone? How many copies they have before god Jesus is crucified and how different each copies are I mean in version?

Is there any evidence that god Jesus himself supervising the copying process of the gospels before he is crucified? As far as I had heard, god Jesus is a literate person. He can write and read. Why don't he write the gospel himself?

How is the gospel being revealed to god Jesus? Or he is the one who revealed the gospel to himself? Sorry, I don't really understand about how the revelation being revealed in Christianity because I don't know which one is responsible to convey the message to human. Whether it is god Jesus, or his apostles? If god Jesus is G-d, then his apostles must be prophets and G-d messengers appointed by G-d. Quite confusing for me.

As far as the Gospels themselves go, there are exactly four which are recognized as legitimate. None of them were recorded by Paul nor Peter, but by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. We don't actually know how it is that they came to write them. The method of that process, if it was ever known, has been lost to history. Luke is the only one who gives us any hint of the process by which he produced his Gospel narrative:

Luke 1

1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but who is Luke? Is he the disciple of god Jesus? Or among his 12 companions? Do you have his life account? What is the meaning of servants of the word?

If for Hadiths, we have complete accounts of the narrators and those learning about the Hadiths will have to memorize the narrators life accounts too. Those who copy it from the Hadiths narrators and compiling it into a manuscript too have their life account. Quran is the first source in Islam and the holy scripture revealed by G-d. Hadiths is the second which means the acts and sayings of prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Hadiths were divided into two, the Hadiths Nabawi, and Hadiths Sahih. Hadiths Nabawi is the interpretation of Quranic verses concerning the acts of worship, like the manner of prayer taught by archangel Gabriel (pbuh) to prophet Muhammad (pbuh). And prophet Muhammad (pbuh) showing the way to the Muslims, and his companions will narrate and recorded it down into palm leaves, papers, etc.

Tradition tells us that both John and Matthew were disciples of Jesus and, therefore, would have been eyewitnesses to many (but not all) of the things which they write about. Even though it was probably the last of the Gospels to be penned to paper, I find the evidence regarding John having been a disciple of Jesus more compelling than I do for Matthew, as we have John's own disciples writing of having learned this from John himself, while the attestation for Matthew is much more removed.

What language are they using to write the gospels? Is it Greek, Aramaic, or Latin? Are they too inspired by the Holy Spirit?

But as far as the process by which we consider them to be God's word, for many that hinges on a single line from one of Paul's letters to Timothy, another Christian missionary: The thing is that it is most likely that when Paul wrote this that he was not thinking of any of the Gospel accounts but rather of what we today call the Old Testament scriptures. However, most Christians today would hold that if it is true of the OT, that it must by extension also be true of the NT.

What are the characteristic of prophets according to Christians? Is there any other Christians witnessing their trustworthiness? Is Timothy a prophet too? Because his letters too being compiled in the bible together with the OT, and NT.

That argument can of course be considered a circular argument were it not for what Peter said about Paul's writings: Here Peter gives Paul's writings the status of scripture, so even if Paul was not referring to his own work, and I doubt that he was, Peter (and presumably the rest of the NT church) did consider them thusly:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.(2 Timothy 3:16-17)

Who is Peter? Do you have his life account? Is this revealed by god Jesus or Holy Spirit? Thanks

I'm sorry, that doesn't really give you much of an answer as to how they were inspired, only why they are understood to be inspired. It is basically an article of faith that they would have been inspired by the Holy Spirit because Jesus promised us that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth:

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (John 16:13)

This John verse is the revelation from god Jesus or merely written by John? Why don't god Jesus write a copy for other Christians instead of asking his prophets, because he can write it himself? Who is this spirit of truth? Is he really a spirit? What is the things that he speaks and hears?

Sorry, too many questions, I'm confused and had no intention to defame others. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Hugo]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

Hi,I have heard that some technical books composed by humans are of very high value. The reason is that whenever someone reads the book, there are sources of inspiration for him/her. That is, no matter being novice or expert, after reading the book again and again you learn new things. This would go to such an extend that the book is called "a classic".

Now, what makes holy Quran stand out ? Simply it is not limited to a particular area. It all depends on the reader, if he/she puts great care and study Quran, it would be beneficial for him/her in any subject, and to any depth the person can manage to go. Also it has no time, it wont become a classic. Rather believers understanding of it would grow as the time passes (hopefully).

As an example, one miracle of Quran is the harmony of its context letter-wise way to meta-concepts. I would be thankful if someone posts the viable researches on horoofe moghata'ah (separated letters) for instance.

An interesting observation but all books are composed by humans - how else do we get them? Huge numbers of books are not limited by time, one only has to looks the the texts by Plato which are getting on for 3,000 years old, quite definitely not limited by time and are4 grammatically perfect. Consider the play Agamemnon by Aeschylus at least 2,500 years ago and although the settings are ancient the ideas it deals with are as relevant and vibrant as they were all that time ago. Consider just one quote which brilliantly captures the idea of disappointment.

Ah, mortal affairs: in times of good fortune you may compare them to a shadow; but ill fortune, a watery sponge wipes out the picture at a stroke.

So I respectfully submit that other books, many other books have things that are worthy of study and will be beneficial and inspirational. So if the Qu'ran is special it cannot be just because it is timeless, beneficial or inspirational that alone will not, cannot prove it is from God although even then we have to accept that God exists?

 

[جوري]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

There is indeed a difference between authorship and scribes.. scribes are asked to make written copies of the oral traditions they have come to memorize and still by thousands today.. If no copy of the Quran exists in the world today. One precisely of the original would be brought together today as was recited by the prophet himself.

One would have to expend some effort doing some historical, poetic, and Quranic reading, to understand exactly why the Quran is the only living miracle!

translated and Explained by Muhammad Asad (leopold Weiss)

APPENDIX II​

AL-MUQATTA’AT​

ABOUT one-quarter of the Qur'anic surahsare preceded by mysterious letter-symbols called muqatta’at("disjointed letters") or, occasionally, fawatih("openings") because they appear at the beginning of the relevant surahs. Out of the twenty-eight letters of the Arabic alphabet, exactly one-half - that is, fourteen - occur in this position, either singly or in varying combinations of two, three, four or five letters. They are always pronounced singly, by their designations and not as mere sounds - thus: alif lam mim, or ha mim, etc.

The significance of these letter-symbols has perplexed the commentators from the earliest times. There is no evidence of the Prophet's having ever referred to them in any of his recorded utterances, nor of any of his Companions having ever asked him for an explanation. None the less, it is established beyond any possibility of doubt that all the Companions - obviously following the example of the Prophet - regarded the muqatta’atas integral parts of the surahsto which they are prefixed, and used to recite them accordingly: a fact which disposes effectively of the suggestion advanced by some Western orientalists that these letters may be no more than the initials of the scribes who wrote down the individual revelations at the Prophet's dictation, or of the Companions who recorded them at the time of the final codification of the Qur'an during the reign of the first three Caliphs.

Some of the Companions as well as some of their immediate successors and later Qur'an-commentators were convinced that these letters are abbreviations of certain words or even phrases relating to God and His attributes, and tried to "reconstruct" them with much ingenuity: but since the possible combinations are practically unlimited, all such interpretations are highly arbitrary and, therefore, devoid of any real usefulness. Others have tried to link the muqatta’ at to the numerological values of the letters of the Arabic alphabet, and have "derived" by this means all manner of esoteric indications and prophecies.

Yet another, perhaps more plausible interpretation, based on two sets of facts, has been advanced by some of the most outstanding Islamic scholars throughout the centuries: Firstly, all words of the Arabic language, without any exception, are composed of either one letter or a combination of two, three, four or five letters, and never more than five: and, as already mentioned, these are the forms in which the muqatta’atappear.
Secondly, all surahsprefixed by these letter-symbols open, directly or obliquely, with a reference to revelation, either in its generic sense or its specific manifestation, the Qur'an. At first glance it might appear that three surahs(29, 30 and 68) are exceptions to this rule; but this assumption is misleading. In the opening verse of surah29 (Al-Ankabat), a reference to revelation is obviously implied in the saying, "We have attained to faith" (amanna), i.e., in God and His messages. In surah30 (Ar-Rum), divine revelation is unmistakably stressed in the prediction of Byzantine victory in verses 2-4. In verse l of surah68 (Al-Qalam) the phenomenon of revelation is clearly referred to in the evocative mention of "the pen" (see note 2 on the first verse of that surah). Thus, there are no "exceptions" in the surahsprefixed by one or more of the muqatta’at: each of them opens with a reference to divine revelation.

This, taken together with the fact that the muqatta’atmirror, as it were, all word-forms of the Arabic language, has led scholars and thinkers like Al-Mubarrad, Ibn Hazm, Zamakhshari, Razi, Baydawi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Kathir - to mention only a few of them - to the conclusion that the muqatta’atare meant to illustrate the inimitable, wondrous nature of Qur'anic revelation, which, though originating in a realm beyond the reach of human perception (al-ghayb), can be and is conveyed to man by means of the very sounds (represented by letters) of ordinary human speech.

However, even this very attractive interpretation is not entirely satisfactory inasmuch as there are many surahswhich open with an explicit reference to divine revelation and are nevertheless not preceded by any letter-symbol. Secondly – and this is the most weighty objection – the above explanation too is based on no more than conjecture: andso, in the last resort, we must content ourselves with the finding that a solution of this problem still remains beyond our grasp. This was apparently the view of the four Right-Guided Caliphs summarized in these words of Abu Bakr: "In every divine writ (kitab) there is [an element of] mystery – and the mystery of the Qur'an is [indicated] in the openings of [some of] the surahs."

http://geocities.com/masad02/appendix2

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

I'll repeat myself because it seems people like to dance around this point.

There are many non-muslim Arab speakers and scholars.

Make a surah that matches the Quran's eloquence and brilliance and we'll call Islam quits.

Thats it. Surely you can match an illiterate 6th century arab from one of the most backward places on the planet at the time?

He's got what... his turbin? You got your harvard graduates and great intellectuals.

 

[جوري]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

an interesting thing about human composed books and their folly..Was Jesus Gay? or did he commit adultery thrice? What language did he speak? Did he even exist?

Speaking of Jesus at the modern Churchman's conference at Oxford, 1967, Canon Hugh Montefiore, Vicar of Great St. Mary, Cambridge stated:

Women were his friends, but it is men he is said to have loved. The striking fact that he remained unmarried, and men who did not marry usually had one of three reasons.
They couldn't afford it; there were no girls, or they were homosexual in nature, The times July 28, 1967.

Martin Luther, negates the image of a sinless Jesus. This is so found in Luther's Table-Talk, whose authenticity has never been challenged even through the coarser passages are cause for embarrassment, Arnold Lunn Writes:
Weimer quoted a passage from table Talk in which Luther states that Christ committed adultery three times, first with the woman at the well, secondly with MAry Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery, ''whom he left off so lightly. Thus even Christ who was so holy has to commit adultery before he died''
Arnol Lunn, The Revolt against Reason 1950, p233

what is Jesus' mother tongue.. I am curious about his most fundamental attributes?
is a full list of saying known to his followers?
have scholars agreed on what tongue those sayings have been uttered in?

Among the guesswork of early scholars in this regard, we have: a Galilean dialect of Chaldaic (J.J.Scaliger); Syriac (claude Saumaise); the dialect of Onkelos and Johnathan (Brian Walton); Greek (vossius); Hebrew (Delitzsch and Resch); Aramiac (Meyer), and even Latin. (Inchofer, for ''the Lord Cannot have used any other language upon earth, since this is the language of the saints in heaven'')
Schweitzer, PP 271, 275

Question is, why do Christians preoccupy themselves with the inimitable Quran, when the very fulcrum of their religion is a hilarious mess?

 

[جوري]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

Do Jesus disciples understand the teaching of Jesus?

Matthew 26 (New International Version)


Matthew 26

The Plot Against Jesus

1When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2"As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified." 3Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. 5"But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."
Jesus Anointed at Bethany

6While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, 7a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. 8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."
10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. 12When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."
Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus

14Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over. The Lord's Supper

17On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" 18He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.' " 19So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.
20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."
22They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"
23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."[a]
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial

31Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
" 'I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'[c] 32But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." 33Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will."
34"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."
35But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.
Gethsemane

36Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." 39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. 41"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
45Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!"
Jesus Arrested

47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."[d]
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.
Before the Sanhedrin

57Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas, the high priest, where the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled. 58But Peter followed him at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and sat down with the guards to see the outcome. 59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward.
Finally two came forward 61and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ,[e] the Son of God."
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.
67Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him 68and said, "Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?"
Peter Disowns Jesus

69Now Peter was sitting out in the courtyard, and a servant girl came to him. "You also were with Jesus of Galilee," she said. 70But he denied it before them all. "I don't know what you're talking about," he said.
71Then he went out to the gateway, where another girl saw him and said to the people there, "This fellow was with Jesus of Nazareth."
72He denied it again, with an oath: "I don't know the man!"
73After a little while, those standing there went up to Peter and said, "Surely you are one of them, for your accent gives you away."
74Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!"
Immediately a rooster crowed. 75Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.

two pts as per Dr. Al-Azami
1- the twelve disciples did receive special teaching and training as Jesus was probably preparing leaders to carry on in his stead. In Mark however the 12 hardly understand anything that they are taught- B.M. Metzeger and M.D. Coogan (ed.) the Oxford companion to the bible. univ press. 1993 p 783
2- the picture painted by the four gospels of Jesus' disciples shows several instances of cowardice and ill fortitude casting doubt on how they, his followers, modeled their lives on his.
that is if we take them to be an honest depiction of his life

 

[جوري]

Can the bible withstand the test of time?

Do Jesus disciples understand the teaching of Jesus?

Matthew 26 (New International Version)


Matthew 26

The Plot Against Jesus

1When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2"As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified." 3Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. 5"But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."
Jesus Anointed at Bethany

6While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, 7a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. 8When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."
10Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. 12When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."
Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus

14Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over. The Lord's Supper

17On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" 18He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.' " 19So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.
20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."
22They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"
23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."[a]
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial

31Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
" 'I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'[c] 32But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." 33Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will."
34"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."
35But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.
Gethsemane

36Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." 39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. 41"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
45Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!"
Jesus Arrested

47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."[d]
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.
Before the Sanhedrin

57Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas, the high priest, where the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled. 58But Peter followed him at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and sat down with the guards to see the outcome. 59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward.
Finally two came forward 61and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "
62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ,[e] the Son of God."
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.
67Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him 68and said, "Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?"
Peter Disowns Jesus

69Now Peter was sitting out in the courtyard, and a servant girl came to him. "You also were with Jesus of Galilee," she said. 70But he denied it before them all. "I don't know what you're talking about," he said.
71Then he went out to the gateway, where another girl saw him and said to the people there, "This fellow was with Jesus of Nazareth."
72He denied it again, with an oath: "I don't know the man!"
73After a little while, those standing there went up to Peter and said, "Surely you are one of them, for your accent gives you away."
74Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!"
Immediately a rooster crowed. 75Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.

two pts as per Dr. Al-Azami
1- the twelve disciples did receive special teaching and training as Jesus was probably preparing leaders to carry on in his stead. In Mark however the 12 hardly understand anything that they are taught- B.M. Metzeger and M.D. Coogan (ed.) the Oxford companion to the bible. univ press. 1993 p 783
2- the picture painted by the four gospels of Jesus' disciples shows several instances of cowardice and ill fortitude casting doubt on how they, his followers, modeled their lives on his.
that is if we take them to be an honest depiction of his life

an interesting thing about human composed books and their folly..Was Jesus Gay? or did he commit adultery thrice? What language did he speak? Did he even exist?

Speaking of Jesus at the modern Churchman's conference at Oxford, 1967, Canon Hugh Montefiore, Vicar of Great St. Mary, Cambridge stated:

Women were his friends, but it is men he is said to have loved. The striking fact that he remained unmarried, and men who did not marry usually had one of three reasons.
They couldn't afford it; there were no girls, or they were homosexual in nature, The times July 28, 1967.

Martin Luther, negates the image of a sinless Jesus. This is so found in Luther's Table-Talk, whose authenticity has never been challenged even through the coarser passages are cause for embarrassment, Arnold Lunn Writes:
Weimer quoted a passage from table Talk in which Luther states that Christ committed adultery three times, first with the woman at the well, secondly with MAry Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery, ''whom he left off so lightly. Thus even Christ who was so holy has to commit adultery before he died''
Arnol Lunn, The Revolt against Reason 1950, p233

what is Jesus' mother tongue.. I am curious about his most fundamental attributes?
is a full list of saying known to his followers?
have scholars agreed on what tongue those sayings have been uttered in?

Among the guesswork of early scholars in this regard, we have: a Galilean dialect of Chaldaic (J.J.Scaliger); Syriac (claude Saumaise); the dialect of Onkelos and Johnathan (Brian Walton); Greek (vossius); Hebrew (Delitzsch and Resch); Aramiac (Meyer), and even Latin. (Inchofer, for ''the Lord Cannot have used any other language upon earth, since this is the language of the saints in heaven'')
Schweitzer, PP 271, 275

Question is, why do Christians preoccupy themselves with the inimitable Quran, when their 'Bibles' are a fine mess?

 

[malayloveislam]

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (John 16:13)

This sounds like a prophecy. So, John had prophesied someone who will yet to come in the future (when he writes this gospel)? Spirit could not only be angels, genies, but also human, because human-being has soul, breath, spirit, that makes them alive.

 

[doorster]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/55797-quran-authenticity.html

 

[Hugo]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

Question is, why do Christians preoccupy themselves with the inimitable Quran, when the very fulcrum of their religion is a hilarious mess?

If the Qu'ran is inimitable why is it that it copies from what you regard as a 'hilarious mess'?

 

[Hugo]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

I'll repeat myself because it seems people like to dance around this point. There are many non-muslim Arab speakers and scholars. Make a surah that matches the Quran's eloquence and brilliance and we'll call Islam quits. Thats it. Surely you can match an illiterate 6th century arab from one of the most backward places on the planet at the time?

He's got what... his turbin? You got your harvard graduates and great intellectuals.

I respectfully point out to you are bordering on blasphemy here, surely you know that your own dogma states that the Qu'ran is God speaking not Mohammed as you infer here. So whether Mohammed was illiterate or not is irrelevant if one accepts the Qu'ran as a revelation.

You offer the same challenge stated in the Qu'ran so let us accept it. A whole chapter is perhaps is too large a chunk to deal with in a discussion board so maybe we can use a smaller section such a a verse or a few verses? But to begin with may I offer the following and as you to match it:

Psalm 23 (New International Version). A psalm of David.

1. The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
2. He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters,
3. he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
5. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
6. Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

Although a challenge was proffered here it seem best to me that we share wonderful passages and learn from them for although this is a passage from the Bible I cannot see that a Muslim would find it in anyway against Islam.

 

[Hugo]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

There is indeed a difference between authorship and scribes.. scribes are asked to make written copies of the oral traditions they have come to memorize and still by thousands today.. If no copy of the Quran exists in the world today. One precisely of the original would be brought together today as was recited by the prophet himself.

One would have to expend some effort doing some historical, poetic, and Quranic reading, to understand exactly why the Quran is the only living miracle!

This is an interesting idea that one can have via I assume recitations passed down through 1400 years without a single error. Can you offer any proof that the Qu'ran you have in your mind and hands is a faultless copy of the original revelation?

 

[doorster]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

This is an interesting idea that one can have via I assume recitations passed down through 1400 years without a single error. Can you offer any proof that the Qu'ran you have in your mind and hands is a faultless copy of the original revelation?

Now, I am ready to join in the fray (of my own free choosing)

bring me 5 Bible scholars
I bring 5 Quran scholars

we ask them, in turn, to recite/dictate their scripture, word for word, including every dot and comma, to gathered scribes/shorthand typists/ or voice recognition software.

and see who manages to be precise in every respect.

that is one of the miracle of our Quran i.e if one believes in it and recites it a few times it stays there in ones mind like a Photocopy!

 

[GreyKode]

Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

If the Qu'ran is inimitable why is it that it copies from what you regard as a 'hilarious mess'?

Why don't you be more scholarly in your approach and show us how the Qur'an copies from anything.
And if you are sincere pick the Qur'an that you have in your book collection and show us some verses.