What Would Jesus (pbuh) Be?

[Danah]

Paul never did like the old law thats why he decided to abrogate it and create a new one. Should Christianity have been called Paulanity as he has much more influence than Christ ever did.

I always think of that too, even among Christians themselves, you find some who believe that Paul is the true founder of Christianity!

 

[Supreme]

- He will kill the pigs (Jews)

And this is where any parallel between the Quranic Isa and the Biblical Jesus whom Christians worship just comes to an end. Our Jesus is not a murderer.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

And this is where any parallel between the Quranic Isa and the Biblical Jesus whom Christians worship just comes to an end. Our Jesus is not a murderer.

Our Jesus is certainly NOT a God. What a terrible thing in the eyes of God that the creations worship the created more than the creator.

 

[malayloveislam]

I had read Church articles of faith from a book by Baba Shnouda II and I do not want to judge others' faith, but I think that Church Creed is established by the Paulus and also by Church Fathers later in the 50th of CE during the Council of Jerusalem and it continues on to the Council of Chalcedon.

The book talked about the nature of the person Jesus whether he is divine or human or both of the nature being regarded as a unity and after that they never talk about them in separation anymore like the diophysites. There isn't any mention yet about Trinity because Spiritu Sanctu (Hly Ghost) wasn't yet being included in the Godhead in the early time but Jesus divinity had been debated by those Early Church Fathers.

www.copticchurch.net/topics/theology/nature_of_christ.pdf

I had read something about Tertullianus too in other books. At the beginning I read those books including about Christians' Creed, it's quite a dizzy experience and time for me because I've personally founded that Christians Creed is quite complicated with Church Fathers' words play and I have to think back in Arabic.

 

[mkh4JC]

I had read Church articles of faith from a book by Baba Shnouda II and I do not want to judge others' faith, but I think that Church Creed is established by the Paulus and also by Church Fathers later in the 50th of CE during the Council of Jerusalem and it continues on to the Council of Chalcedon.

The book talked about the nature of the person Jesus whether he is divine or human or both of the nature being regarded as a unity and after that they never talk about them in separation anymore like the diophysites. There isn't any mention yet about Trinity because Spiritu Sanctu (Hly Ghost) wasn't yet being included in the Godhead in the early time but Jesus divinity had been debated by those Early Church Fathers.

www.copticchurch.net/topics/theology/nature_of_christ.pdf

I had read something about Tertullianus too in other books. At the beginning I read those books including about Christians' Creed, it's quite a dizzy experience and time for me because I've personally founded that Christians Creed is quite complicated with Church Fathers' words play and I have to think back in Arabic.

The Trinity is very much Biblical. Perhaps this site will help, explaining the Nicene Creed taken from the scriptures. You can highlight each scripture and read for yourself:

http://www.extremetheology.com/2009/11/the-nicene-creed-according-to-the-scriptures.html

 

[aadil77]

And this is where any parallel between the Quranic Isa and the Biblical Jesus whom Christians worship just comes to an end. Our Jesus is not a murderer.

lol since when did killing an animal make you a murderer? And there was no parallel to begin with; mangod vs prophet of god?

 

[Abdul Qadir]

And this is where any parallel between the Quranic Isa and the Biblical Jesus whom Christians worship just comes to an end. Our Jesus is not a murderer.

I feel that the bible is so misguiding..i asked my bro-in-law, who is a catholic that when he dies, does he think he will go to heaven...he said yes...i asked him, how sure is he...he said he is very certain...and when i asked him, does he fear the punishment of god..he said, god loves all...and will not punish them..and he quoted an example of how a mother will never harm her child and so God loves no matter what they do...but i asked him, if thats the case, why has god prepared hell? and the Hell is hardly mentioned in the bible as much as the Quran...the Quran tells us the good news(Heaven) and warns us repeatedly(about Hell)....Yes, Allah loves us 70 times more than the most loving mother in the world...but that is for those who deserve it...

 

[Ramadhan]

And this is where any parallel between the Quranic Isa and the Biblical Jesus whom Christians worship just comes to an end. Our Jesus is not a murderer.

Aaahh... but paul himself said that Jesus pbuh will slain the antichrist. That would make him a murderer, no?

Unless you don't believe in that, which I wouldn't be too surprised, because it seems for christians, religion is like an a la carte menu, you can choose and pick what you like that fits your desires and whims, and discard the others you don't find it too palatable.

 

[mkh4JC]

Aaahh... but paul himself said that Jesus pbuh will slain the antichrist. That would make him a murderer, no?

Unless you don't believe in that, which I wouldn't be too surprised, because it seems for christians, religion is like an a la carte menu, you can choose and pick what you like that fits your desires and whims, and discard the others you don't find it too palatable.

This is what is in Revelation:

'And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.' Revelation 19: 11-15.

This is in reference to the Second Coming. So yes, at the end of the age, Jesus will make war with the Beast Antichrist and his kingdom.

 

[Supreme]

lol since when did killing an animal make you a murderer? And there was no parallel to begin with; mangod vs prophet of god?

Jews are human beings. All the scientific references in the Quran and you can't even get your head around that! Also, I agree that there was incredibly little correlation between the two figures in the first place.

 

[aadil77]

Jews are human beings. All the scientific references in the Quran and you can't even get your head around that! Also, I agree that there was incredibly little correlation between the two figures in the first place.

??? Lol where did 'jews' come from. Don't even try to suggest that he will kill innocent jews, they will be fighting us as part of the armies of gog and magog. Is it ok if with you if we fight them back or is that too extreme?

Its the same old cheap tactic by you lot, always victimizing jews, have you read the talmud lately it has alot to say about you 'gentiles'?

Atleast you agree that killing an animal does not make you a murderer, since you failed to answer my question

 

[Grace Seeker]

Peace,

I was wondering what if the person died before he realized that he was already forgiven, what is his destiny then?

In my writing above I was thinking principally of how we who are alive are called to live.

With regard to the hereafter, Danah, my own thoughts on this are that God's primary response to his creation is to be gracious. I do believe that there is a hell and that those who totally reject God will seperate themsevles from his presence by ending up there. But, I also believe that God wills to save all people (only he won't force his will on us, as he created us with the free will to chose for ourselve who we will, or will not, serve). Therefore, I suspect (based on my reading of a few biblical texts in a slightly different way than many of my fellow Christians) that God can still elect to save whosoever he wills, and that those who have a heart that reflects the nature and character of God in their own lives (even though they may not know him by his proper name) will still ultimately be save by him. Nevertheless, though I have this hope based on what I know of God and his past actions with regard to even fallen humanity, the only guaranteed promise that I can find is to be made alive in Christ.

 

[Grace Seeker]

From the Qur'an of course. Their lives are recounted in the Qur'an (more so than in the Bible) and tafseer (commentary/exegesis) of the Qur'aan by notable classical Muslim scholars such as Ibn Kathir.

As I understand a commentary, it helps to explain that which it refers to by making comment upon it. But it cannot add to the information that which either is not a part of the original or available from some other outside source (such as a contemporary history). A commentator cannot add new original material of his/her own making. Apart from the Qur'an, what other source material would these Muslim commentaries use, especially since they could hardly use a corrupt source such as the Bible, to make comment upon Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses and Isa?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yeah ,they ignore the practical teachings of the Bible and discard the Jewish Law followed by Jesus (Matthew 5:17-20, 23:23) they practice what is called ‘selective morality’ and ignore the teachings of the Gospels, paying close attention to the epistles of Paul (only).

That's simply not true. In fact, if you go into most churches, on any given Sunday, the primary text for the sermon will be taken from the Gospel reading. This past Sunday, I used passages from Genesis, Joshua and Luke, and not a single verse from Paul as the basis of my sermon. There are suggested texts to be read each Sunday in worship, these generally include a Pslam, one other text from the Old Testament, one text from the Gospels, and one text from the espistles or Revelation. But the espitles texts could be from either Paul or non-Pauline epistles. So, there are Sundays when Paul isn't even suggested, and others when he is suggested that he isn't utilized.

No doubt, some preachers and churches prefer to emphasize Paul, but that certainly isn't universal, and it is entirely erroneous to suggest that we pay attention to Paul exclusively. The Sermon on the Mount, the parables of the Prodigal Son, the Good Samaritan, and separation of the sheep and goats are all frequent messages that we in the church use to remind one another of the moral call that Christ makes on our lives.

To say, as you have, "[Christians] practice what is called ‘selective morality’ and ignore the teachings of the Gospels, paying close attention to the epistles of Paul (only)" is nothing more than pure falsehood. Either you simply are unaware of the facts and talk about what you do not know, or knowing (that Christians do not ignore the teachings of the Gospels nor do they pay attention to Paul only) you do not care and choose to knowingly and intentionally speak something other than the truth. Neither is becoming for one who writes falsely and accusatorily of another's morality.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

He will kill the pigs

Somewhere I read that this is a reference to his keeping Kosher.

:wa:

 

[Grace Seeker]

It isnt allowed in your Bible

Leviticus 11:8
You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

Are you practicing selective morality , since you want to eat pork , you ignore the above verse

How am I -- a Gentile, one who is not a participant in the Jewish covenant, and one who even present day Jews recognize is not to be held accountable to the Levitical laws but only Noahide law -- to be understood as required to keep a law that was not even written for me?

 

[Ramadhan]

Jesus pbuh would certainly shun churches, as current churches are used instead as money making enterprises.
see: evangelists, chatholic church.

 

[Ramadhan]

How am I -- a Gentile, one who is not a participant in the Jewish covenant, and one who even present day Jews recognize is not to be held accountable to the Levitical laws but only Noahide law -- to be understood as required to keep a law that was not even written for me?

so if Jesus pbuh laws are only for jews, whose laws are you follwoing?
Paul?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Paul never did like the old law thats why he decided to abrogate it and create a new one. Should Christianity have been called Paulanity as he has much more influence than Christ ever did.

This is something that you have been spoonfed and so I understand why you believe it to be true. Even many Christians believe that Paul turned his back on the Jewish law. But I would argue that he never did. That in fact it was his understanding of the law that fueled his evangelistic ferver, and once he realized how Jesus fulfilled the law he wanted to take that message to all, and thus began a mission that went beyond his fellow Jews and into the Gentile world. A place where the Jewish law did not apply in the same why that it had among Jews. (If you think it would be of any value, I could write a whole thread on this myself, but I doubt that anyone would actually care to try to understand what I was writing.)

 

[Grace Seeker]

so if Jesus pbuh laws are only for jews, whose laws are you follwoing?
Paul?

The command concerning not eating pork is found in Leviticus, it is not a law of Jesus. Jesus gave one command: Love one another as I have loved you. And when asked about the greatest command, he said to "love God" and then he added that along with that one was also to "love your neighbor". Jesus didn't say to not eat pork.

But what Jesus did say that might be inferred by some to speak to the subject includes the following:

What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' (Matthew 15:11)

Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Mark 7

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")