how christian women view muslim women

[Abu Zakariya]

j4763

Here in Sweden, we Muslims usually rent the swimming hall so that women can swim by themselves without men present and vice versa, so one can swim without having to cover other than the private parts.

 

[HeiGou]

no offense but your a slave to men who are you looking good to when you flash your un neccesaries, you dont have to show skin to look good or is that part of feeling flattery and being seductive it all comes down to your devious desires, I am not saying having desires is devious but when its given out to the whole population and publicly interiors its subjecting to oblivious behaviour

If she covered up because men like you told her to, wouldn't she be even more of a slave to men? If she covered up because men, bad men of course, hooted at her, whistled at her, touched her up in the street, until she covered up, wouldn't she still be a slave to men? Perhaps, and maybe you do not agree with me, she will only stop being a slave to men when she wears whatever she likes regardless of what any men think? - and if that is the jilbab so be it, but if it is not, then it is not.

 

[j4763]

j4763

Here in Sweden, we Muslims usually rent the swimming hall so that women can swim by themselves without men present and vice versa, so one can swim without having to cover other than the private parts.

Thats fine in a swimming pool, but not possible at the beach. So one would have to go with out the fun of swimming (if you find swimming fun).

Do the women not get a tiny bit jealous of other girl’s body’s, say ones pretty fat and the others pretty toned.

 

[Malsidabym]

I agree completely. It is totally wrong to generalize. But maybe you didn't read irsha's paragraph which I was copying.

Ah yes, I did not read closely enough. I see now why the response. It was a generalization in response to a generalization.
So in the spirit of not generalizing, I don't think that all christian women view muslim women the same. Some see muslim women as oppressed by men and religion, but there are also many that respect muslim women for their commitment to family and God.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

Thats fine in a swimming pool, but not possible at the beach. So one would have to go with out the fun of swimming (if you find swimming fun).

So swimming in a pool doesn't really count? It's something other than swimming?

I think that you meant that one would have to go without the fun of being at the beach. However, here in Sweden, most people have to go without that. We don't have that many beaches.

Do the women not get a tiny bit jealous of other girl’s body’s, say ones pretty fat and the others pretty toned.

That may happen. How has that got anything to do with the topic?

 

[j4763]

So swimming in a pool doesn't really count? It's something other than swimming?

I think that you meant that one would have to go without the fun of being at the beach. However, here in Sweden, most people have to go without that. We don't have that many beaches.

guess so.

That may happen. How has that got anything to do with the topic?

Yeah, it is sorry.

 

[Skillganon]

Thats fine in a swimming pool, but not possible at the beach. So one would have to go with out the fun of swimming (if you find swimming fun).

Do the women not get a tiny bit jealous of other girl’s body’s, say ones pretty fat and the others pretty toned.

Don't know, gotta ask a girl!

 

[libyanhero]

If she covered up because men like you told her to, wouldn't she be even more of a slave to men?

I do not tell anyone to do anything, I am just repeating the message of Allah and his prophet muhammad(saws)

If she covered up because men, bad men of course, hooted at her, whistled at her, touched her up in the street, until she covered up, wouldn't she still be a slave to men?

brother the bad men hooting at her are following thier desires and do not fear Allah, if everyone feared Allah she wouldnt be hooted at even the hijabi is hooted at by bad men and thats because they know the beautiful women is the muslim women under the cover but I would like to see how shocked the men will be when they start hooting at the hijabi and under that niqab they find an unattractive women one that they did not expect

Perhaps, and maybe you do not agree with me, she will only stop being a slave to men when she wears whatever she likes regardless of what any men think? - and if that is the jilbab so be it, but if it is not, then it is not.

yah i do not agree with you, Allah requires both men and women to abide to thy commandment, both have desires and the women who is not covered and enjoys the attention of men would possibly flirt with the man who doesnt cover either cover here is different from the cover of the women and that is the shyness from the women and he flirts openly and as the conversation moves thats how it goes they both submitted to their desires instead of Allah

 

[HeiGou]

I do not tell anyone to do anything, I am just repeating the message of Allah and his prophet muhammad(saws)

Well then you are telling her to observe God's law.

brother the bad men hooting at her are following thier desires and do not fear Allah, if everyone feared Allah she wouldnt be hooted at even the hijabi is hooted at by bad men and thats because they know the beautiful women is the muslim women under the cover but I would like to see how shocked the men will be when they start hooting at the hijabi and under that niqab they find an unattractive women or a monster

It has always struck me as odd because the men who do this are so obviously not following God's desires and yet I have never seen the slightest effort to punish them. I would think it would deserve a whipping. Anyone got better information than me on what the men that do that deserve and how often it is inflicted?

Well they won't know will they? Nor, to be honest, do they care probably.

yah i do not agree with you, Allah requires both men and women to abide to thy commandment, both have desires and the women who is not covered and enjoys the attention of men would possibly flirt with the man who doesnt cover either cover here is different from the cover of the women and that is the shyness from the women and he flirts openly and as the conversation moves thats how it goes they both submitted to their desires instead of Allah

A woman may not cover and still not flirt. Doing what God wants is one thing, and something I have no problems with, but doing what men enforce by bad means is another.

 

[Umm Yoosuf]

1) The Western culture seems to be obsessed with a very narrow ideal of feminine beauty, and women are derogated if they do not match this ideal. Many women spend hours each day picking just the right outfit and styling their makeup and hair before they will even step out of the house. Any feminist will tell you this obsession with women's beauty and sexuality is bad for women and should be ended. Isn't modest dress a good way for a woman to get off this merry-go-round and to tell people that they will have to judge her by her intelligence, personality, and character, not her appearance?

2) When men dress to be respected, they wear a business suit that covers them to throat, wrist, and ankle, and they keep their hair simple and plain. When women dress to be respected, shouldn't they also cover to throat, wrist, and ankle, and make sure that their hair is not a decoration? Clearly, men are not expected to play the "beauty game". If women want equality with men, shouldn't they take the same attitude to dress that men do?

http://www.muhajabah.com/

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

If she covered up because men like you told her to, wouldn't she be even more of a slave to men?

No human being has the authority, it belongs only to God.

Ah yes, I did not read closely enough. I see now why the response. It was a generalization in response to a generalization.

Precisely.

So in the spirit of not generalizing, I don't think that all christian women view muslim women the same. Some see muslim women as oppressed by men and religion, but there are also many that respect muslim women for their commitment to family and God.

Agreed.

Regards

 

[renak]

is it not in the bible that women should be covered also ??????????:?

Yes, it is mentioned in the Old Testament. Many Christians feel that they are only instructed to follow the New Testament.

 

[renak]

In Todays Society Where Rape Is On The Increase Whats Best To Cover Or Not To Cover ???????????????????/

Rape is an act of violence, not sex.

 

[renak]

quote! Women must cover their heads:

(Corinthians 11:5)
"But any woman who prays and prophecies with her head unveiled dishonors her head - it is the same as if her head were shaven, for if a woman will not veil herself then she should cut off her hair. But if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil."


Women are never allowed to teach men:

(Timothy 2:12)
"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

Women are second class humans compared to men:

(Corinthians 11:3)
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."


(Corinthians 11:7)
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man, for man was not made for woman, but woman from man, neither was man created for woman, but woman for man."



Women can't pray at Church:

(Corinthians 14:34)
The woman should keep silence in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is any thing they desire to know let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
quote from the bible or is it not the book of GOD with his orders inside it

Christians and Muslims are both guilty of "cherry picking", that is choosing what they want to enforce, and ignoring the rest. I'd love for you to read my prior posts on this thread and answer my questions.

 

[renak]

is it up to the creation to chose what to obey and what not to? when the rules are clearly stated from the creator? (in your case...)
hmmmm.. so basically you make your own rules?

Do you not make your own rules as well? Are Muslims exempt from choosing the rules they want to follow, and disregarding the rest?

Why is slavery no longer accepted in Islam?

 

[renak]

So according to you, if all women live nude, go out nude, work nude. And continue to do so, as long as they avoid a lonely dark alley or be with the wrong relative on their own, then the rape rate will go down?

Research rape. It is not an act of sex. Rape is an act of violence.

 

[renak]

Why is it that the woman must be admired solely for her physical appearance, and the man is admired for who he is and his position in society?

An attractive woman is not solely admired for her beauty, unless she has nothing else to offer.

 

[renak]

no offense but your a slave to men who are you looking good to when you flash your un neccesaries, you dont have to show skin to look good or is that part of feeling flattery and being seductive it all comes down to your devious desires, I am not saying having desires is devious but when its given out to the whole population and publicly interiors its subjecting to oblivious behaviour

Actually, I'm a slave to no one. If anything, the man may become a "slave" to me. I have the upper hand with a man who views me only as an object of desire. This type of man has an internal weakness that he chooses to avoid. I on the other hand, am aware of the powers of my female charms, and use them to my advantage.

A man who is capable of seeing beyond the pure physical, has no threat of becoming manipulated by an attractive woman. They are able to control their animalistic desires, and think on higher levels. This type of man takes responsibility for his own desires, and actions.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

On the subject of women covering themselves in Christianity, here is a picture of some Eastern Orthodox Christian Nuns:

Modest dress is something common to religious women. When someone sees a Nun dressed in this manner, what message does that send?


Hello renak,

Do you not make your own rules as well?

No human being can override the rules of God.

Why is slavery no longer accepted in Islam?

The Islamic ruling on slavery has not changed. But Islamic laws which restricted sources of slavery and encouraged the freeing of slaves brought about the gradual removal of slavery from the world. More info here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/8369-slave-girls.html

An attractive woman is not solely admired for her beauty, unless she has nothing else to offer.

I was responding to j4763's comment:

I am happy to walk down the street with my girlfriend and know man are looking at her, perhaps thinking she’s beautiful, it makes me proud that she is with me.

Obviously a woman should not be valued only for her outward appearance and for men to judge her by it is something that all women should detest because it reduces them to a material object of no value in and of itself. Material possesions are only useful when they benefit/pleasure others.

Actually, I'm a slave to noone. If anything, the man may become a "slave" to me. I have the upper hand with a man who views me only as an object of desire.

A prostitute is only viewed as an object of desire - do you think she has a position of authority and influence on those who use her? Does it make a woman proud to be considered a material possesion whose value is gauged only according to the pleasure she provides others?

Regards

 

[renak]

1) The Western culture seems to be obsessed with a very narrow ideal of feminine beauty, and women are derogated if they do not match this ideal. Many women spend hours each day picking just the right outfit and styling their makeup and hair before they will even step out of the house. Any feminist will tell you this obsession with women's beauty and sexuality is bad for women and should be ended. Isn't modest dress a good way for a woman to get off this merry-go-round and to tell people that they will have to judge her by her intelligence, personality, and character, not her appearance?

I don't think that modest dress would ensure respect for women. I see it more as a bandaid to the issue, a way to avoid the core problem. There are no doubt many pious men who respect their wives and would never derive pleasure from another woman. However, I tend to believe that most men continue to seek some sort of relationship with other women whether it be via an affair, another marriage, or pornography.

I've yet to meet a woman who spends hours getting dressed. This isn't reality.

Many of the feminist leaders are lesbians, and are unable or unwilling to take recognize their feminine characteristics. Instead, they often tend to focus on equality between men and women, without recognizing the obvious differences between the sexes. Feminist opinion is not held in high regard by most women I've known.
2) When men dress to be respected, they wear a business suit that covers them to throat, wrist, and ankle, and they keep their hair simple and plain. When women dress to be respected, shouldn't they also cover to throat, wrist, and ankle, and make sure that their hair is not a decoration? Clearly, men are not expected to play the "beauty game". If women want equality with men, shouldn't they take the same attitude to dress that men do?

Again, I think we need to recognize the differences between men and women. Men are more visual creatures. They like to see skin. Women, like to see skin on occasion; however, they tend to be more attracted to a mans strength, charisma, confidence, and power. A man completely covered in a suit can be just as erotic for a woman as a bikini clad 25 year old is for a man. For example, if I see a covered man in a suit and he is confident, and charming, I would be attracted to him. He is exuding his sexuality in this manner. He is saying to women, "I have a good job, I can provide well for you and your offspring".
http://www.muhajabah.com/

just my 2 cents....