Sinning

[Umar001]

Just really want to put my two cents in, or as im in the uk my two pennies.

The topic of this thread is going from place to place, from Sinning, to Testimony to OT prophecies.

I think personally, to help us get the best out of any form of talking it would be abit wise to make a different thread of each so we could focous more.

To Sean if I may refer to you by name,

I think maybe instead of answering the questions of people, this goes to muslims too we try and refer to our sources first because answering from the top of our head without refering to sources may lead into actually confusing ourselves and the people we are talking to and G-d is not the Author of confusion.

I also would just like to put basic background here, for my benefit and hopefully some will agree.

I believe most of us here are genuine in our search and love for G-d, most of us want to end up in Paradise.
Most of us are here to talk and recieve and give benefit, so it is only logical for us to be talking to each other with the mind state of accepting the good and the bits we disagree with we leave for now, it is not for a man of G-d to come with a closed mind and simply scream 'your wrong your wrong' but rather to understand the view point and see which benefits him and which doesn't and then speak on it.

The fundamentals are there between most of us, you see, most here want to 'follow' a man that lived a while ago, peace be upon him, who was a man of G-d, a man who preformed miracles and was born of a virgin birth.
But it seems that although we both wanna follow him, muslims and christians we have a different view of who he is, thats all, and thats where we should try and see what parts of what views are similar and correct and so on.

With this said here I go:

Ok maybe saying God cudnt look on sin was the wrong choice of words, but what i meant was for the first time in Jesus' life, because he was carrying the worlds sin, Gods presence or spirit was away from him, and thats why i believe he sayd father why have you forsaken me.

So before then G-d's presence was with Jesus, and Jesus was with sinners.

So it seems that G-d's presence was with sinners too.

I see Jesus as a man, the holy spirit as the spirit of God, and God the father as God.

Me too, I believe Jesus was a man, a great man, a word and spirit from G-d, Acts 2:22 affirms Jesus was a man.

22"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

I believe The Holy Spirit, peace be upon him, is a spirit preceding from G-d.

And I believe that the figure called The Father in the Bible is the G-d Almighty.

I think, but might be wrong that the entire flow of the Old Testament requires that God come into the world, as Immanuel (God-with-us e.g. Isaiah 7:14).

I don't think it does. Scriptures like that and Isiah 9:6 For to us a child is born. Do not actaully require people think that G-d will come as a Man.

Anyhow, thats a whole new topic there.

Peace be upon yall.
Eesa

 

[glo]

It has always struck as odd that so many Christians refer to Catholics and Orthodox as being non-Christian, as between them they make up nearly 3/4 of the people that call themselves Christian. the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Churches (Eastern Catholic, opposed to Roman) were the only Christians prior to the 1400's.

Hi Woodrow

That's an interesting topic!
I grew up as a Catholic, and never thought of myself as non-Christian!
Since I have moved away from Catholicism to the Protestant church, I have realised that many protestants do not consider catholics to be Christians.

Personally, I would describe Catholics as Christians, because they do believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, in his death and ressurection.
Personally I think it is proud and self-righteous thing to assume oneself to be better than another ... because in God's eyes things might look differently. After all, we only see what's on the surface - God sees all the way into our very beings, hearts, and souls!

There are some marked differences between catholicism and protestantism, as I am sure you are aware. The protestant church, when it emerged, had many criticism of how the catholic church had developed over the years ... and many traditions were found unbiblical.
Praying to the saints, the importance of relics and statues in the churches, the power (politically as well as spiritually) that was given to the Pope as the 'representative of God on earth' ... all those things met with Luther's dispproval.

For me, one of the most important differences, now I call myself a born-again-Christian, is the direct relationship I have with God. No Pope or priest to act as the middle man. I have a direct line to God the Father! :statisfie

And I very much relate to Sean's experience of becoming a Christian:
To take the step and dedicate your life to God/Jesus and his teachings, has been amazing, and has changed my life beyond compare.
Yes, I have believed in God all my life, but my faith did not become alive until I found a direct relationship with Jesus!
You were a Christian once. I expect you know what I mean.

Blessings.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

So before then G-d's presence was with Jesus, and Jesus was with sinners.

So it seems that G-d's presence was with sinners too.

I agree with what u said about having sources to what u say, and i will do that from now on.

What i have been taught as a christian is that God could not be with sinners, so thats why he had to become us, i.e a man to be in our presence.

I should have look more in sriptures about it by now, but i wll be searching for the answers as of now.

Peace,

 

[Umar001]

I agree with what u said about having sources to what u say, and i will do that from now on.

What i have been taught as a christian is that God could not be with sinners, so thats why he had to become us, i.e a man to be in our presence.

I should have look more in sriptures about it by now, but i wll be searching for the answers as of now.

Peace,

Hey no worries bro, we all should know more than we know, but we aint perfect :heated:

But when I stated about refering back to scripture I hope you didn't feel I meant just you for it was a reminder to me first and to everyone.

Im sure it will help us all in getting back to the roots of both faiths.

Anyhow thanks for being patient with me.
Glo:

I have a direct line to God the Father!

1 Timothy 2:3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

Aint we meanto go through Jesus, peace be upon him and his mother and his followers, so it aint really straight direct with G-d the Father.

Peace

EDIT:

What i have been taught as a christian is that God could not be with sinners, so thats why he had to become us, i.e a man to be in our presence.

I think I was taught something similar too, I think scripture says something about this but I cant remember it exactly, and I don't think it is as explicit as what I was taught.

 

[glo]

1 Timothy 2:3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

Hi IsaAbdullah

Now I'm starting to think you are nitpicking! ;D

Yes, Jesus is our mediator.

Firstly, as Timothy says, he mediated between God and us when he died and made atonement for our sins.

He is also a mediator between us and God, in the sense that people often address him in prayer to intercede for us.
The reason for this, I believe, is that Christians relate to Jesus particularly, because he lived, suffered and died as a man - which in some ways makes God seem more 'human' to us (I bet I won't get away with that comment either! ;D )
What I mean by that (don't shoot me - I'm only trying to explain what I believe!), is that some may feel that Jesus has a better understanding of human suffering, having suffered so much himself, and therefore they are drawn to him in prayer.
Remember that God the father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit in Christian teaching all all the same God, thereby we always address God in prayer!

I hope this makes sense.
:rollseyes

:thankyou: Peace.

 

[Tania]

It has always struck as odd that so many Christians refer to Catholics and Orthodox as being non-Christian,

I ensure you catholics are christian

 

[Umar001]

I ensure you catholics are christian

They do alot of stuff thats not particularly in the Bible dont they?

 

[Tania]

They do alot of stuff thats not particularly in the Bible dont they?

Like what?

 

[Umar001]

Hi IsaAbdullah

Now I'm starting to think you are nitpicking! ;D

Im a man of detail lol hehe

Yes, Jesus is our mediator.

Firstly, as Timothy says, he mediated between God and us when he died and made atonement for our sins.

He is also a mediator between us and God, in the sense that people often address him in prayer to intercede for us.
The reason for this, I believe, is that Christians relate to Jesus particularly, because he lived, suffered and died as a man - which in some ways makes God seem more 'human' to us (I bet I won't get away with that comment either! ;D )
What I mean by that (don't shoot me - I'm only trying to explain what I believe!), is that some may feel that Jesus has a better understanding of human suffering, having suffered so much himself, and therefore they are drawn to him in prayer.
Remember that God the father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit in Christian teaching all all the same God, thereby we always address God in prayer!

I hope this makes sense.
:rollseyes

:thankyou: Peace.

The reason I brought it up was because people say that they Go straight to G-d but I also have read the scripture, so people actually go through Jesus to G-d. Thats all I wanted to clearify, thats what confused me.

The thing/image that is always brought to my mind is that of:

A place then a gap then another place, we are on one side and G-d is on the other but we cant get to him, it is only through Jesus' stretched arms on the cross that can close the gap act as a bridge which we can take to G-d.

This is the kinda thinking I was adressing thats all, sorry if it felt tidious and like I was nitpickin it is just a point taht has been on my mind alot.

(don't shoot me - I'm only trying to explain what I believe!)

I wont shoot ya, If your just explainin what you believe than its cool, if we are discussing why you believe it then I would ask about it.

 

[glo]

Like what?

Hi Mara

I think IsaAbdullah may be referring to my comments here (just a few posts before):

Personally, I would describe Catholics as Christians, because they do believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, in his death and ressurection.
Personally I think it is proud and self-righteous thing to assume oneself to be better than another ... because in God's eyes things might look differently. After all, we only see what's on the surface - God sees all the way into our very beings, hearts, and souls!

There are some marked differences between catholicism and protestantism, as I am sure you are aware. The protestant church, when it emerged, had many criticism of how the catholic church had developed over the years ... and many traditions were found unbiblical.
Praying to the saints, the importance of relics and statues in the churches, the power (politically as well as spiritually) that was given to the Pope as the 'representative of God on earth' ... all those things met with Luther's disapproval.[/U]

Blessings. :thankyou:

 

[Umar001]

Like what?

calling people Father, dont the bible tel ya not to?

 

[glo]

Im a man of detail lol hehe

No kidding! :giggling:

This is the kinda thinking I was adressing thats all, sorry if it felt tidious and like I was nitpickin it is just a point taht has been on my mind alot.

I wont shoot ya, If your just explainin what you believe than its cool, if we are discussing why you believe it then I would ask about it.

No problems, IsaAbdullah.
You are certainly keeping me on my toes! :rollseyes
I assume that you were a Christian once and converted to Islam ... am I right?

Peace.

 

[Umar001]

No problems, IsaAbdullah.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

You are certainly keeping me on my toes! :rollseyes

Good or bad thing?

I assume that you were a Christian once and converted to Islam ... am I right?

Yep, some would ask you to say reverted, but I aint that picky :giggling: :giggling:

Peace.

PEACEEEEEEEEEEEE


*Humms* Like to keep on my toes like a pedicure

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Like what?

It seems both religion follows the same book, but have taken certain scriptures in different ways.

I wouldnt ever call my self a catholic, i believe catholics have added to the bible, in adding the 7 scaraments, and revelations says not to add or take away from the word. and i would never go to a priest for forgivness, i would go to Jesus.

God bless

 

[Tania]

calling people Father, dont the bible tel ya not to?

This people would be my father? Could you point me exactly where in the Bible, i can't find it :-[

 

[Umar001]

i believe catholics have added to the bible, in adding the 7 scaraments, and revelations says not to add or take away from the word.

God bless

Wasn't it the other way around bro.

The Catholics cannonised the bible all the books and then later on with the Martin Luther Movement those books were taken away from the Bible.

I remember I had to study him when taking my confirmation of faith.

I think it was then that the books were discarded.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Sorry dude lol, wudnt know, but i do know since i cam on here i still have alot to learn

I like to question my faith, because God has never let a question go un answered yet and i feel a stronger christian having been communicating with atheits and evolutionists and you guys.

God bless

 

[Umar001]

This people would be my father? Could you point me exactly where in the Bible, i can't find it :-[

Matthew 23:9

And also the things glo posted, with regards to askin saints and so on

 

[Tania]

Matthew 23:9

And also the things glo posted, with regards to askin saints and so on

"You have one Father" ?
We have only one Holy Father.
Pope Ioannes Paulus PP. II
"Prayer, the community at prayer, enables us always to discover anew the evangelical truth of the words: "You have one Father" (Mt 23:9), the Father—Abba—invoked by Christ himself, the Only-begotten and Consubstantial Son. And again: "You have one teacher, and you are all brethren" (Mt 23:8). "Ecumenical" prayer discloses this fundamental dimension of brotherhood in Christ, who died to gather together the children of God who were scattered, so that in becoming "sons and daughters in the Son" (cf. Eph 1:5) we might show forth more fully both the mysterious reality of God's fatherhood and the truth about the human nature shared by each and every individual."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...ts/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint_en.html

 

[Umar001]

"You have one Father" ?
We have only one Holy Father.
Pope Ioannes Paulus PP. II
"Prayer, the community at prayer, enables us always to discover anew the evangelical truth of the words: "You have one Father" (Mt 23:9), the Father—Abba—invoked by Christ himself, the Only-begotten and Consubstantial Son. And again: "You have one teacher, and you are all brethren" (Mt 23:8). "Ecumenical" prayer discloses this fundamental dimension of brotherhood in Christ, who died to gather together the children of God who were scattered, so that in becoming "sons and daughters in the Son" (cf. Eph 1:5) we might show forth more fully both the mysterious reality of God's fatherhood and the truth about the human nature shared by each and every individual."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...ts/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint_en.html

Meaning? :rollseyes