Who & what is Israel?

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Then so is the fall of the Temple and the whole of the Kingdom, which means... it no longer exists. So what is the current basis for the claim to Israelite land?

The claim is that it is the Holy Land that G-d gave to the Jewish people under my belief. The people who follow the laws of the Torah. That is the Jewish belief.

The real question is why Muslims are so infurated over the Jews 'conquering' the land, when in fact it has been conquered by Muslims before, and it has been many times over and over again. Especially since Jewish culture thirved in the area so in reality it was "taken back".


Most of what you said goes same for you.

Oh excuse me? Please explain to me how I violate Jewish law.
 
The claim is that it is the Holy Land that G-d gave to the Jewish people under my belief. The people who follow the laws of the Torah. That is the Jewish belief.

The real question is why Muslims are so infurated over the Jews 'conquering' the land, when in fact it has been conquered by Muslims before, and it has been many times over and over again. Especially since Jewish culture thirved in the area so in reality it was "taken back".

Well, the covenant that was made between the 12 sons... was broken by your fathers, so there is no divine decree and G-d has already announced that by the destruction of both Kingdoms.

The prophecy that mentions the return, states all of Israel, not just your two tribes.

The Muslims aren't pissed about the "battle" for the land. They're pissed that it's under the guise of and is being justified as holy law. The Sunni Arabs are particularly peeved, but since their laws and your own are so identical, I expect there's more of a blood connection than you think.

What ever happened to the days when the biggest dilemna in my life was making the rent payment on time? ****!

Ninth Scribe
 
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Well, the covenant that was made between the 12 sons... was broken by your fathers, so there is no divine decree and G-d has already announced that by the destruction of both Kingdoms.

I do not think you understand what the exile was. Please show me where it says that the Covanent between G-d and the faithful who follow his Torah was ever broken.

The prophecy that mentions the return, states all of Israel, not just your two tribes.

There are actually Jews in India who are moving to Israel soon, about 250 of them who claim and might have DNA proof to be one of the 10 tribes. The Jews of Iran who are numerous in Israel could be another. The Black Jews of Ethipia who not live in Jerusalem and other parts claim to be another tribe.
 
I do not think you understand what the exile was. Please show me where it says that the Covanent between G-d and the faithful who follow his Torah was ever broken.

According to your records, God destroyed your kingdoms because of Avodah Zarah (defined as: material possessions such as Temples becoming more important than the people they were intended to serve), and had you removed as a punishment, though I disagree with this being a punishment. I would have called it a blessing. What makes you so sure what you're doing is God's will? Who is your prophet these days?

There are actually Jews in India who are moving to Israel soon, about 250 of them who claim and might have DNA proof to be one of the 10 tribes. The Jews of Iran who are numerous in Israel could be another. The Black Jews of Ethipia who not live in Jerusalem and other parts claim to be another tribe.

I am aware of the locations of certain of the tribes. I've been tracking them myself. But, what makes you so sure the Israelites will forgive you? You rebelled on them once before... and now, like the Palestinians, you offer them what was already theirs to begin with?

I'm also unhappy about this attitude you have where you somehow feel G-d favors whoever is capable of spilling the most blood since it's a desire to preserve compassion that prevents the Muslims from uniting against you.

Think more on this, but it's late over here and I'm exhausted. Going to get some shut-eye but we'll talk more in the morning.

Ninth Scribe
 
What makes you so sure what you're doing is God's will?

My faith. What makes anyone sure.

Who is your prophet these days?

The times of the prophets are over. We await the Moshiach.

But, what makes you so sure the Israelites will forgive you?

They are coming to Israel and express there wanting to, and support the country.

and now, like the Palestinians, you offer them what was already theirs to begin with?

Excuse me? Was the Holy Land ever the Palestinians to "begin" with. I wasn't aware that the Palestinians were the first inhabitants of the land of Israel.... Do you have any DNA proof to back up your claims. Jerusalem was not the Palestinians to begin with. Nor is the Holy Land. It became theres at a point when it was conquered endlessly by different people. Now it is no longer theres, taken from them the exact same way it was taken from the Jews, and the people they took it from before.

whoever is capable of spilling the most blood since it's a desire to preserve compassion that prevents the Muslims from uniting against you.

Right, uniting against who? I thought that happned in '48, and all the other wars.

I'm not recommending the spilling of any blood at all. Your the apologist for people who spill blood, remember, like Mr. Zarqawi, the ones who blew up the wedding in Jordan killing newly weds and babies. What a hero for you right...
 
You really have to stop with this DNA crap no one is buying it. chances of you sharing DNA with others in NY city on the scale you describe is 1 in 250"Researchers at Yale University evaluated samples of DNA from 38 men from all over the world. Surprisingly. no sequence variations were found in a 729-base pair intron near a gene thought to be involved in sperm or testes development"... "If we all descended from a recent common ancestor, and if the history of human populations is a history of movement and gene flow, then the differences between us, as socially striking as we may wish to make them, are largely irrelevant from a biologist's standpoint,"
So, Yes the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of the land... they might not have been called Palestinians but certainly Canaanites...any modern day Muslim from the middle east can link himself directly to the original tribes than you can. I am willing to bet my bottom dollar on it.. what is your DNA proof? other than pieced together crap from people with an agenda? did you exhume the bodies of Abraham and Jacob and the tribes to relate to them on such a fool proof level ? according to your sources it proves that those of you of European origin have some middle eastern genes... I take that with a grain of salt... but I seriously suggest you reflect a little on what you are writing... at least you remain anonymous here, but don't go running to any discerning historian... and it won't stand up in any court of law........ enough already.
sometimes you show some wisdom and the rest is the rant of two year olds...
Alqeda= Al CIA-Da production with a vid popping out every other day, it is a joke!... Al zarqawi is a fairy tale, sort of like the easter bunny and santa clause... made for mass mind control........ it has been working great thus far.

BTW, no one from the middle east has united against Israel yet I assure you... anymore than Israel having interest in peace with its neighbors... they have proven it before under the reign of Gold Meir and they are proving it yet again..... one thing I can say with certainty is all this is pre-ordained....... God doesn't like injustice and every tyrant shall have his day!

تَتَّخِذُواْ مِن دُونِي وَكِيلاً {2}

[Pickthal 17:2] We gave unto Moses the Scripture, and We appointed it a guidance for the children of Israel, saying: Choose no guardian beside Me.

ذُرِّيَّةَ مَنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ إِنَّهُ كَانَ عَبْدًا شَكُورًا {3}
[Pickthal 17:3] (They were) the seed of those whom We carried (in the ship) along with Noah. Lo! he was a grateful slave.

وَقَضَيْنَا إِلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ فِي الْكِتَابِ لَتُفْسِدُنَّ فِي الأَرْضِ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَلَتَعْلُنَّ عُلُوًّا كَبِيرًا {4}
[Pickthal 17:4] And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture: Ye verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and ye will become great tyrants.
فَإِذَا جَاء وَعْدُ أُولاهُمَا بَعَثْنَا عَلَيْكُمْ عِبَادًا لَّنَا أُوْلِي بَأْسٍ شَدِيدٍ فَجَاسُواْ خِلاَلَ الدِّيَارِ وَكَانَ وَعْدًا مَّفْعُولاً {5}
[Pickthal 17:5] So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ravaged (your) country, and it was a threat performed.

ثُمَّ رَدَدْنَا لَكُمُ الْكَرَّةَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَمْدَدْنَاكُم بِأَمْوَالٍ وَبَنِينَ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ أَكْثَرَ نَفِيرًا {6}
[Pickthal 17:6] Then we gave you once again your turn against them, and We aided you with wealth and children and made you more in soldiery.

إِنْ أَحْسَنتُمْ أَحْسَنتُمْ لِأَنفُسِكُمْ وَإِنْ أَسَأْتُمْ فَلَهَا فَإِذَا جَاء وَعْدُ الآخِرَةِ لِيَسُوؤُواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ وَلِيَدْخُلُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ كَمَا دَخَلُوهُ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَلِيُتَبِّرُواْ مَا عَلَوْاْ تَتْبِيرًا {7}
[Pickthal 17:7] (Saying): If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they conquered with an utter wasting
......
 
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So, Yes the Palestinians are the original inhabitants of the land... they might not have been called Palestinians but certainly Canaanites

You have no evidence for that claim.

BTW, no one from the middle east has united against Israel yet I assure you...

With Israel's technology, and the amount of waste they would lay to there enemies if they were about to be destroyed, I'm not sure that would be a good idea.

Alqeda= Al CIA-Da production with a vid popping out every other day

Your credibility among modern day thinkers must be tremendous. Making the claim that Al-Queda was hired by the CIA to destroy American lives...

zarqawi is a fairy tale

Oh, so he was a CIA actor blowing up US troops. Do you think the CIA has more on there mind then killing there own soldiers? or are you that ignorant.
 
You have no evidence for that claim..

lol.. if that is your logic... then neither does the colonial settler state of Israel whose very existence rested on the Hagana Irgun and Stern Gang, the ORIGINAL TERRORISTS MIND YOU... who blew up the very people who helped them establish the illegal state... do you really wish to go down that path?

With Israel's technology, and the amount of waste they would lay to there enemies if they were about to be destroyed, I'm not sure that would be a good idea...
the amount of thechno you have is nothing short of my tax money and tons of other innocents going to waste... when God makes a promise he keeps it... I'd love to see Israel use Nuclear weapons in the region... would be very short sight on their behalf considering they live right there don't you think?



Your credibility among modern day thinkers must be tremendous. Making the claim that Al-Queda was hired by the CIA to destroy American lives......
tis modern day thinkers who make that claim... most Muslims have conceded their surrender to the BS that is being dished out in their name



Oh, so he was a CIA actor blowing up US troops. Do you think the CIA has more on there mind then killing there own soldiers? or are you that ignorant.
The end does justify the means... wouldn't be the first time they plotted and calculated.
 
tis modern day thinkers who make that claim... most Muslims have conceded their surrender to the BS that is being dished out in their name

Please if you compare the modern day thinkers who support my theory compared to yours, my modern day thinkers probably have millions of IQ points higher.

The end does justify the means... wouldn't be the first time they plotted and calculated.

Please... your in the same bathc of men who think the mooon landing was a conspiracy.
 
When asked what makes you so sure the Israelites would forgive you, you replied:

They are coming to Israel and express there wanting to, and support the country.

Did you tell them the truth? That they are being asked to leave their peaceful existence to go to this new Israel, to be used in a battle they did not create, for a land they will never have sovereignty of? I mean, this is the offer?

I'm not recommending the spilling of any blood at all. Your the apologist for people who spill blood, remember, like Mr. Zarqawi, the ones who blew up the wedding in Jordan killing newly weds and babies. What a hero for you right...

Off topic, but I'll be publishing an interesting report on exactly who he is and what he did (and didn't do) later this month, along with a detailed account of this issue.... Who & What Is Israel?

Ninth Scribe
 
Please if you compare the modern day thinkers who support my theory compared to yours, my modern day thinkers probably have millions of IQ points higher..

Do you have DNA evidence of that readily available? lol

Please... your in the same bathc of men who think the mooon landing was a conspiracy.

Ok! whatever tickles your fancy ;) ..........

on a seperate note.... tis a beautiful day out in NY... why not take your family out to central park?
 
Right, uniting against who? I thought that happned in '48, and all the other wars.

Winning a handful of battles is not equal to winning a war... and you are asking for one. Purest Ambrosia is right, you know. All your technology and weaponry will lay waste to the lands... Israel included! You can hold that over some of their heads. But not all of them.

Ninth Scribe
 
Do you have DNA evidence of that readily available? lol

DNA evidence on IQ tests? :rollseyes

Did you tell them the truth? That they are being asked to leave their peaceful existence to go to this new Israel, to be used in a battle they did not create, for a land they will never have sovereignty of? I mean, this is the offer?

What on earth are you talking about. Muslims if democratically elected can have sovreinty over Israel. You don't seem to be able to put together that Muslims serve in Israel's congress, and hold high positions in many branches. A luxury, non-Muslims are given in very FEW arab countries.
 
Shalom , Therebe,

The general view is that the Moshiach will not just redeem the children of Israel, he will redeem mankind from meaninglessness, and teach the purpose of life to the universe, in otherwords he will come for the whole of mankind. not just exclusively for the children of Israel. Brother i am telling you he has already been! Dont miss the last train! He was Muhammad saws. The description fits. I lay you another topic alongside the ones we have going. You give us a description of the Moshiach and we will match it with the description of Muhammad peace be upon him.
 
Sholam ,

Just picking up on another point>

The real question is why Muslims are so infurated over the Jews 'conquering' the land, when in fact it has been conquered by Muslims before, and it has been many times over and over again. Especially since Jewish culture thirved in the area so in reality it was "taken back".

As far as i know there was no Jews in "Yisraa'el" (Canaan btw) when it was conquered by the Muslims! Jews were exiled by the Christians and the Christians were using the temple of Solomon as a garbage dump! It was the Muslims who cleaned it up and then later allowed the Jews back home.
And yes i said back home! I never deny the Jews right to live there! i just deny Israel to be a land or a state as the posts beginning of this thread demonstrated.
 
I think a day trip is good for all of us. I dont intend for this dialouge to go down the wrong way, im glad the ideas basically to chill out was suggested ...good move P.A.

G-d willing we will get back to this in some time, i got to recheck the whole of this thread to remember where i was at!, i having been trying the forum for a couple of days and it was like it didnt exist anymore. anyways im glad its back up, however it looks slightly differnt? and less features? whats happened?
 
DNA evidence on IQ tests? :rollseyes
.

You aren't particularly familiar with sarcasm?
either way on one of the recent issues of NEJM a discussion of " GAP-43 gene" which makes for super brainy mice... There is of course an equivlant of that in human so Yes, even DNA can determine your IQ level or lackthereof since you missed the point entirely!
 
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He was Muhammad saws. The description fits.

Which of the prophecys did Muhammod full that would convince Jews? I studied many religions and I don't believe he fufiled what Jewish holy scriptured deem as what needed to qualify.
 
The challenge was for him to give the description of the promised Messiah. and then i would expound on that description. btw you have to give references thereby !

Mr m
You wouldnt happen to be a Jew yourself would you,? i know that they have a heavy community in Manchester.
 

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