Questions for atheists about origin of universe

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Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

root said:
ID. Can someone please give me a link to a scientific peer reviewed paper that takes the matter even remotely serious please.

Thankyou.

PS...... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6084974.stm
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Root,
Great link. It was really interesting.
As far as a "Scientific Peer Review Paper', the following is the best I could find. I think further research will produce no better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

:sl:
I think the problem here is people misunderstanding what science means. If you mean science in it's correct way (finding out about the universe through observation), then religion certainly isn't science-based. But if you have a misunderstanding of the word science, and take it to mean "facts about the universe", then somebody might say that religion is 'science'-based.
:w:
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Dahir said:
Your famed 'Darwin Theory' has been disproven many times, but you couldn't even scratch the surface of Intelligent Design. Let us discuss.
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Sorry to disappoint but 'Scientific' ID has not so much had its surface scratched as been shot down in flames (rather quietly). Something most of its advocates, including the author of the article at the start of this thread, presumably, find it convenient to ignore... and assume a generally receptive (and indeed gullible) audience won't be bothered to find out.

It was all sparked off by Behe's (a biochemist) work on "irreducible complexity", in which he reached the conclusion that certain basic biochemical systems were so complex that they could not have been build up in stages of any sort - as would have happened had they evolved by Darwinian processes. It actually looked rather convincing for a while, and off went the ID band-wagon, but sadly far less well publicised was the work which showed that those systems in fact COULD have arisen via evolutionary processes. Including the famed bacterial flagellum.

What was left was really no more than a re-adoption of the old teleological argument for the existence of God, which is philosophical rather than scientific. It's a perfectly reasonable argument, and you can even turf out some scientific 'evidence' to support it (and attack it, come to that) but like every other philosophical argument for the exitence of God there are counters, and it can neither be 'proved' or 'disproved'.
 
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Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Ähmed said:
Rathar on the contrary, we believe that our faith is the Truth and the only way to be succesful, therefore we want to get the message to everyone, as many people as possible, so they can be succesful as well. Our job is only to convey to you the message, become Muslim is up to you. No one will force you there.

This is not a lack of faith, it is in fact the greatest faith because we want others to recognize the Truth of Islam and also because we want others to enter Paradise. We do not hold ourselves above everyone else as the "chosen people", but we believe that Islam is the only religion with God and the only religion that He will accept, therefore it is our job like it was the job of the Prophets to guide people to the Truth. After all, there can be only one Truth isnt it? And what is there after Truth but falsehood?

Peace
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don't christians also believe this? if so, does this mean that a violent confrontation between the 2 is inevitable?
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Cheese - that said, the theory of evolution is still a theory, it could be correct for non-human living things, or it could not- thats why its called a theory! allahu a'lam!
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hhhmmmm, hold the boat. The theory of general relativity is also a theory as well. Does this mean Gravity does not exist because I suppose based on what you are saying it may not. :giggling:
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

root said:
Does this mean Gravity does not exist because I suppose based on what you are saying it may not. :giggling:
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Please tell me you are kidding?

Gravity is real. Relativity is just a theory that attempts to explain aspects of it. The validity of the theory has nothing to do with the existance of the phenomena. Dur :rollseyes

Evolution is real. The details, assumptions and extrapolations of the theory of evolution are nothing more than parts of a theory- whether they are wrong or right changes nothing of the reality of the observed phenomenum.

:rollseyes
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Greetings,

snakelegs said:
this seems to be as almost impossible concept to convey to some people here.
you will not find many here who would say this:
I do not believe in the Torah because I can prove it is 100% accurate. No one can do that for any book. It is a matter of BELIEF.
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about the qur'an.
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The many Prophets of Allaah who were sent to nations before us, came with proofs and miracles to authenticate their words and convince the people that they were indeed God's Messengers. The unique thing about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is that both his message and his miracle came in one: the Qur'an. With this in mind, I think that it is possible to prove that the Qur'an is in fact 100% accurate and moreover the actual words of Allaah, because unlike the previous scriptures, it was sent for the whole of mankind until the end of time and thus it contains much to convince us that true guidance is really found therein.

However, while we can have a lengthy discussion about the miraculous nature of the Qur'an, we need to bear in mind that indeed it is not intended to teach us everything we need to know about science. This does not mean that scientific miracles cannot be found in it, but that they are not its sole purpose. As for the success of early Muslims (in the Golden Ages of Islam), it can be said that much of their success rested on their adherence to Islam and the manner in which it opened their minds, not that everything they learnt - in terms of science - was found in the Qur'an.

lavikor201 said:
What you must do is read the whole Torah and then go back and see if you understand a concept that is foreign to you that now, which used to make you think the Torah is crazy, is completly nessesary.

Ansar Al Adr has to explain with paragraphs many single verses of the Quran which do not make sense to readers who believe they may be contradictory, so therefore, I would not say your scriptures are "easier" to understand then mine.
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Yet if we apply the same methodology - to read the whole context of the verses in question, apparent contradictions are quickly diminished. The Qur'an is so rich with history, language and wisdom that treatises are written to elucidate what is already embedded within, as opposed to introducing such. Much can be taken away by the layman, but for those who seek further, a great deal more can be acquired.

snakelegs said:
don't christians also believe this? if so, does this mean that a violent confrontation between the 2 is inevitable?
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Although both religions may exclusively claim to be upon the truth, both advocate peace and shun unjustice, therefore it does not necessitate a violent encounter.

Peace :).
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

root said:
The theory of general relativity is also a theory as well. Does this mean Gravity does not exist because I suppose based on what you are saying it may not.
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Indeed. That's how science works, it's all 'just' theories. Any and all theories are rejected when another comes along which better explains the facts. The older theory may be totally abandoned, or just refined and expanded. General relativity is a great example; it improved the Newtonian theory (which in itself was perfectly adequate to explain observable everyday phenomena) to account for instances, many (but not all) of which were themselves purely theoretical at least in terms of humanity's direct experience of them.

Evolution, natural selection and neo-darwinism have NOT been "disproved" in any sense, although there are indications they may not comprise a whole and complete explanation of the phenomena the are supposed to account for. Allowing that, the parallel with gravity suggests refined theories on the same lines are more likely to provide that full explanation than anything else. Evolution, however, is easily the best scientific theory we have. Minimal research will show that 'scientific' ID doesn't even come close, no matter how much some people wish it did. As with any other theory which does not support the facts as well as the prevalent one, it has been pretty much abandoned by serious science, although that does not mean there are scientists who are not attracted to the idea.

ID is a pretty neat idea, and has generated some rather good philosophical arguments. Anyone who still believes it is science, though, is living in cloud-cuckoo land. That doesn't mean it's dead and gone forever, somebody might discover an "irreducible complexity" that really is irreducible, that no Darwinistic theory can account for. Then it would be game-on again... but only then.
 
Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

^o) Youre welcome
 
Question for atheists

if you accept that everything is just random and we just evolved where did everything come from? The big bang had to start from small matter but matter can't just happen. It must be created.
 
Re: Question for atheists

A common response is that it can (and does) just happen! :D Another is that if matter can't just happen and needs creating why isn't exactly the same true of God? And several others venture into realms of theoretical physics (Planck lengths, quantum foams and so forth) that nobody here really understands, anyway.

Rather than elaborate, though, all of those have been discussed at some length in other threads recently, so you might want to just trawl through the last couple of pages or so and add to those.
 
Re: Question for atheists

if you accept that everything is just random and we just evolved where did everything come from? The big bang had to start from small matter but matter can't just happen. It must be created.
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A simple answer would be "how was G-d created?" It is naive to think we will discover the truth of the universe here. The common statements from both sides are getting old, and in reality nothing is to be gained by conducting another argument similar to "chicken or egg" argument.
 
Re: Question for atheists

:sl:

The chicken :D ... ... ... :rollseyes

OT: Atheists argue endlessly tryint to find valid points to prove their arguments...but hardly succeed as there is SO MUCH evidence, without religion, for the existence of God. However, if they turn a blind eye to that, then that's their loss!

:w:
 
Re: Question for atheists

OT: Atheists argue endlessly tryint to find valid points to prove their arguments...but hardly succeed as there is SO MUCH evidence, without religion, for the existence of God. However, if they turn a blind eye to that, then that's their loss!
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Theists argue with the same amount of effort, trying to find points that favor them as well.
 
Re: Question for atheists

the big chicken inside an egg :P
 
Re: Question for atheists

Actually one of the lovely things about being an atheist is that you don't have to have all the answers.

I don't claim to know the origin of the universe. And I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

I think that discomfort with the unknown is one of the driving forces behind religion.
 
Re: Question for atheists

Oh and I can answer about the Chicken and the Egg.

The Egg came first.

It just wasn't a chicken Egg.

:)
 

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