Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[Keltoi]

Could be, could be....that's all you have Christians. Statements you're not sure about, following ex-Christian murderer a.k.a. Paul who supposedly had a supposed vision in a supposed desert to a supposed road to Damascus.

One cannot trust the Bible, and the Bible as it exists now surely is not the word of The Creator of this very Universe.

And PS You're not only lying on Allah (ta'ala), but you're also lying on His messenger Jesus, peace upon him.

:rollseyes ..Okay, thanks for your time.

 

[MadeenJibreel]

:rollseyes ..Okay, thanks for your time.

No hassle. I wish Christians read the Bible more carefully and analyze it themselves, it might be an eye-opener.

 

[Pynthanomai]

No hassle. I wish Christians read the Bible more carefully and analyze it themselves, it might be an eye-opener.

Hi MadeenJibreel,

I've come into this thread as a late starter, but I have been very interested in what's been posted lately. As a Christian, I wonder if you could suggest some of the things that believe would be "eye-openers" for me. Please don't take this as a sarcastic question: I'm really quite interested to know. I know that I found a lot of interesting things when I read the translation of the Qur'an that my Muslim colleague gave to me. Thanks!

 

[Grace Seeker]

Could be, could be....that's all you have Christians. Statements you're not sure about, following ex-Christian murderer a.k.a. Paul who supposedly had a supposed vision in a supposed desert to a supposed road to Damascus.

One cannot trust the Bible, and the Bible as it exists now surely is not the word of The Creator of this very Universe.

And PS You're not only lying on Allah (ta'ala), but you're also lying on His messenger Jesus, peace upon him.

We are lying??? Perhaps you mean that we believe something different to be the truth, than what you believe to be the truth. But we are most definitely not lying -- i.e. we do not knowingly present something we know to be false as if it were the truth. I could just as easily say the prophet Muhammad lied when he said that he received a message from God that Jesus didn't die on the cross or that the Bible had been corrupted. But where would such accusations and counter-accusations get us.

OK. You don't trust the Bible. We get that. But as far as what you asked for,

Second thing: what did Jesus (pbuh) create? Show me 1 single verse from the Bible quoting that he created something.

That has been done and done more than one time. But are you satisfied? No, instead you begin making personal attacks:

that's all you have Christians. Statements you're not sure about, following ex-Christian murderer a.k.a. Paul

Well, first, we are not unsure about those statements, you are the one who is unsure of them. We have total confidence in them. Keltoi actually used the words: "there is NO doubt". Secondly, please notice that the verses quoted came not only from Paul, but also from the writer to the Hebrews and from the Apostle John, a personal companion of Jesus.

Now, you may not believe any of it. That's fine. No one is asking you to. But if you ask us to cite verses from the Bible, don't be upset when we actually do.

 

[MustafaMc]

to those who follow the Path of Allah (ta'ala)

According to the Bible, Jesus (peace upon him) is a servant of Allah (ta'ala), so how can he be God? Of course not. :astagfiru

Quran 19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a slave.Twice in Acts Jesus is referred to as a servant of God, in Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." Also, in Acts 4:27 "...to conspire against your holy servant Jesus..." From the parable of the prodigal son, we know that the servant is not equivalent to the son, Luke 15:19 says "I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men."

 

[Grace Seeker]

Quran 19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a slave.Twice in Acts Jesus is referred to as a servant of God, in Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." Also, in Acts 4:27 "...to conspire against your holy servant Jesus..." From the parable of the prodigal son, we know that the servant is not equivalent to the son, Luke 15:19 says "I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men."

Yet the Bible calls even humans both "servants of God" and also "sons of God" -->

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, (Galatians 3:26)

Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. (1 Peter 2:16)

So, apparently it is possible to be both at the same time. Now, if those who are in Christ are to be lifted up to ultimately share in Christ's glory (Romans 8:16-17), it would seem to be reasonable to think that Christ who humbled himself to share in our ignomy (Philippians 2:6-8) might be referred to as both the Son of God and as a servant of God without one contradicting the other.

 

[Muslim Woman]

[FONT=&quot]With the name of ALLAH (God Almigthy) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful[/FONT]

And yet the Nicene Creed begins: "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible..." .

that's interesting.....Jazak Allah for sharing.

To my knowledge , Christians don't call Jesus (p) as Father Almighty .....hmmmmmmm, what's the difference ?

When Christians say God Almighty , that includes son & spirit but does the same apply with Father Almighty ?

 

[Pynthanomai]

Hello all,

I made a recent posting in this thread, but I think the person I asked a question of is offline at present. It's a very interesting topic, so I was hoping to make a meaningful contribution. To this end, I wonder if I could be so bold as to ask those Christians who have been contributing to this topic for a "summary" of sorts of the approaches or material that they've used to date in replying to others' postings - because I'd like, so far as possible, not to repeat needlessly what others have said. A private message would be as good as a public posting, I suppose (but I don't know if I can receive the former, since I'm a "limited member"?). Anyway, thanks for your patience, and I look forward to a reply.

 

[MustafaMc]

Yet the Bible calls even humans both "servants of God" and also "sons of God" -->

Yes, but humans aren't claimed to be divine as is Jesus.

So, apparently it is possible to be both at the same time. Now, if those who are in Christ are to be lifted up to ultimately share in Christ's glory (Romans 8:16-17), it would seem to be reasonable to think that Christ who humbled himself to share in our ignomy (Philippians 2:6-8) might be referred to as both the Son of God and as a servant of God without one contradicting the other.

But how can the Son of God/servant of God be at the same time God? Matthew 26:39 And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." In this case we see that Jesus' and the Father's will weren't the same. How can one submit his will to that of another and the two be at the same time of the same essence?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ peace ;

.. if I could be so bold as to ask those Christians who have been contributing to this topic for a "summary" of sorts of the approaches or material that they've used to date in replying to others' postings - because I'd like, so far as possible, not to repeat needlessly what others have said. .

i'ts more than 60 pages.......woooww .....


who has the patience to summarise ? waiting to see ........



[FONT=&quot] verses for this life & the life hereafter

[/FONT][4.171]


O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion,


and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah,


Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you;


Allah is only one God;


far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yes, but humans aren't claimed to be divine as is Jesus.
But how can the Son of God/servant of God be at the same time God? Matthew 26:39 And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." In this case we see that Jesus' and the Father's will weren't the same. How can one submit his will to that of another and the two be at the same time of the same essence?

This is part of understanding the hypostatic union, that Jesus had two natures and thus two wills in his one person. And recall that in the Trinity we are indeed dealing with 3 persons. Jesus thus had to subordinate his will to that of the Father.

As to how it can be that they Jesus had these two separate natures and that he has one will and the Father has another and they are nevertheless the same essence? I truly don't know how it is. (I'm sure you don't want me to speculate.) I only know that it is reported in the Bible that it is.

 

[Redeemed]

:laugh:

( 1 ) Plus ( 1) Plus 1
God The Father God The Son God The Holy Ghost
Three Cannot Go Into One ,If Yashu'a Was God How Could He Forsaken Himself (Matthew 27 ; 46 ... Mark 15; 34 ) And If He Was God Who Was He Calling Out To Himself ? I Thought God So Loved The World , That He Sent His Son To Die For You .. If That's True As John 3; 16 Says , Then Jesus Had Nothing To Do With It It Was That Father That Sent Him . In Matthew 6 ; 9 As Jesus Say '' Our Father Who Art In Heaven '' Because Jesus Say In John 13 ; 16 '' I Am Not Greater Than He Who Sent Me '' And In John 5; 30 He Says Again That '' I On My Own Accord Can Do Nothing '' Call No Man Father , Because There Is One Father Who Art In Heaven And Jesus Says Clearly In Matthew 23; 9 '' And Call No Man Your Father Upon The Earth

And If It Was About His Father's Will Then Why Did Jesus SAy In Matthew 26; 38 >> If Be Possible Let This Cup Pass By Me ; Nevertheless Not As I Will , But As Thou Wilt ''
Let Me Point Out A Few Points From Your Bible Stating That Jesus Couldn't Possibly Be God ..

Mark 15 ; 34 >> Jesus cried out with a loud voice My God , My God Why have thou Forsaken Me . <<< If Jesus was God who could he be praying to if he is the only God , and to cry is a human Weakness .
Mathew 4; 1 >>Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil << If Jesus was God how could the devil Possibly be able to tempt him without him knowing >> And What Could The Devil Possibly Offer The Creator Of Everything .


Luke 2; 49 >> That I Must Be About My Father's Business '>> If Jesus Was God Why Did He Say I Must Be Of My Fathers Business , He Indicated . [ The Distinction Between Him And His Father .


There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One

I will answer your questions if you answer mine; how could God have always existed? And how can He tell the future?. What shape does God have? How did God create something out of nothing? According to your logic we shouldn't believe in God, because it is not logical OR POSSIBLE that someone always existed and always will be. And it is not possible for someone to create something from nothing! Lol

:laugh:

 

[Redeemed]

i don't believe in the trinity. i believe in one god.
but, please try to be respectful, no matter how much you disagree.
thanks. :statisfie

Who said the Christian trinity is not one God? You didn't get it from us Christians. Please don't try to tell us what we know and believe. Stick to what you know and believe. We agree that God is one that is all, but keep in mind the devils believe that too. That means nothing to God. So, I don't understand why people make a big deal about that. Believing that God is one can't save you>

 

[Redeemed]

Pls get over it.
Isa (Jesus, son of Mary, who had no father), is a servant of Allah (ta'ala).

Second thing: what did Jesus (pbuh) create? Show me 1 single verse from the Bible quoting that he created something.

The Bible eplicitly states that all things were made by Jesus and for him, but you don't believe in the Bible so why do you ask?

 

[Redeemed]

to those who follow the Path of Allah (ta'ala)

According to the Bible, Jesus (peace upon him) is a servant of Allah (ta'ala), so how can he be God? Of course not. :astagfiru

Jesus was a man so why wouldn't he be subordinate to God? However, He was also God and in that sense equal in essence and substance.

 

[Redeemed]

See, you gotta big mystery there: gzillions of the Bible versions, even the English ones have completely different meanings of the same verse!!!!

Check it out yourself. So which one is correct? Coz both cannot be true. It's either none, 1st or the 2nd. See a point?

There are differnent versions of the bible, but none of the versions differ in relationship to the deity of Christ!

 

[Phil12123]

Third thing: if Jesus (pbuh) really died for your sins, then you surely have no logic. Why would Almighty sacrifice an innocent soul?

That's easy. Because God is both loving and just. He loves the sinner but hates and must punish the sin. So Jesus took our sins on Himself and gave us His righteousness, so God could freely forgive us and still punish the sin-bearer. 2 Cor. 5:21 --- "For He [God the Father] made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." And, 1 Peter 3:18 --- "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit."

Fourth thing: (cont. from the previous bullet) What happens to those ppl who lived way before Jesus? Surely they didn't know him, so they couldn't have believe in him, so happens to their "salvation"?

In OT times, there was the animal sacrificial system that pre-shadowed and pre-figured the death of Christ for our sins, as "the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world." The OT book of Proverbs speaks often about the wicked and the righteous, the latter being pictured as one who loves God and His law, while the former was disobedient and perverse. If a person trusted in God, doing whatever God instructed him to do (bringing his sacrifice, etc.), his belief was counted for righteousness, as was Abraham's. Genesis 15:6 --- "And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness."

Fifth: How come Jesus' name is never, not once, mentioned in the Old Testament?

Why would it be? The Word was not made flesh until the NT.

And the last: "Hear oh Israel...your Lord thy God is ONE." (pls don't even try to explain this, coz nobody can explain that)

So what is your question?

 

[Balthasar21]

:laugh: I will answer your questions if you answer mine; how could God have always existed? And how can He tell the future?. What shape does God have? How did God create something out of nothing? According to your logic we shouldn't believe in God, because it is not logical OR POSSIBLE that someone always existed and always will be. And it is not possible for someone to create something from nothing! Lol

:laugh:

Go for it .......

 

[Redeemed]

[FONT=&quot]With the name of ALLAH (God Almigthy) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]%%%%%[/FONT]



can u give the link ? I never heard of 27 gods of Hindus. Either they say 3 in 1 God or many of them will say , there are 33 crore deities


I googled & found this.

Hindus believe in monotheistic polytheism, rather than polytheism.

HINDU TRINITY
Represents Three manifestations of the Supreme Reality.
These are :

Brahma : Creation

Vishnu : Preservation

Shiva : Destruction

Hindu Trinity (Trimurti)

• Three Faces of Divine
• Three Cosmic Functions of the Supreme Lord
• Creation + Preservation+ Dissolution
• Generator + Operator + Destroyer = GOD

http://www.hindunet.org/quickintro/hindudharma/hindu_trinity.htm

Why are you sharing this? We don't believe in these demonic counterfiets of the real God. The devil knows that God exists as the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit since before the worlds were spoken into being. The Hindu religion believes in monotheistic poloytheism we don't. I believe their gods exist. They are very real spiritual demonic forces. I have seen them in the eyes of their worshippers. They even get benefits worshipping and getting enlightenment, but their is no other name given whereby we might be save but by the name of Jesus who is the prince of peace. Without him, their is only a plastic peace.

 

[Grace Seeker]

See, you gotta big mystery there: gzillions of the Bible versions, even the English ones have completely different meanings of the same verse!!!!

Check it out yourself. So which one is correct? Coz both cannot be true. It's either none, 1st or the 2nd. See a point?

You don't compare English copies of the Qur'an find that the different translations have different meanings and then ask which one is correct do you? No, you understand that no translation is going to be a good as the real thing in the original language. The answer to which one is correct is to say that the question itself is flawed. We are not to ask which English version of the Bible is correct. That would be just as bad as asking which English version of the Qur'an was correct. The question is do we have a reliabile text in the original language to work from? And the answer to that question, I believe, is YES.