Invoking others other than Allah???

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Soldier

The Brother of Prophet Yusuf (as) asked their father to pray for their forgiveness.

An example of seeking forgiveness can be seen in the Holy Quran, Chapter of Yusuf, where the brothers of Prophet Yusuf (as) were ashamed of the act they had done, so they went to their father and said,

“They said: O our father! ask forgiveness of our faults for us, surely we were sinners, He said: I will ask for you forgiveness from my Lord; surely He is the Forgiving, the Merciful”.

Explained

When we tell our clergy/prophet to pray for us, we know in our hearts that the clergy/prophet cannot do anything unless Allah (swt) wants for it to happen, but we believe since he is a man of worship and spends more of his time in the way of Allah, his prayer might get accepted faster. This ideology again takes us back to Allah (swt). One may feel too ashamed of one’s bad actions to turn towards Allah (swt) for forgiveness. To make the forgiveness process a bit quicker he brings with him someone who is dearer to Allah (swt) through his actions and intentions. The above is an example from the Holy Quraan. The brothers of prophet Yusuf (a) could have asked directly from Allah (swt), but as they were so much ashamed of their bad action that needed a Wasila through whom if they ask him to pray to Allah (swt) for forgiveness on their behalf, they will be forgiven, and hence we find they approached a Godly man, a Prophet, Yakub (s) who was their father as well, and asked him, as we read above.
Therefore Quraan gives a lesson to be learnt and followed.

Yaqub a.s. was alive at the time. He wasnt dead. Therefore you cannot use that as evidence to prove that you can make a Dua to the Prophet who is dead from this life and this also applies to the saints.

Are you incapable of diffrentiating between asking someone who is alive and someone who is dead?

So what you (Ahmed and MH Kahn) are saying is that asking something from a prophet or clergy who is living is allowed but once he dies then it becomes shirk?

Brothers Scholars say it is alowed to do Hajj or Umra on anyothers behalf who is alive or not but i have also heard if someone is ill and ramadan is on so he can give money to some poor so he or she keeps the fast on his or her behalf but i haven't heard any thing about the saying salat on someone behalf

format_quote Originally Posted by wkas

Brothers Scholars say it is alowed to do Hajj or Umra on anyothers behalf who is alive or not but i have also heard if someone is ill and ramadan is on so he can give money to some poor so he or she keeps the fast on his or her behalf but i haven't heard any thing about the saying salat on someone behalf

true. Because salaah is not a burden and even the physically disabled can perfom it. this is not the case with hajj and fasting.

format_quote Originally Posted by me earlier

So what you (Ahmed and MH Kahn) are saying is that asking something from a prophet or clergy who is living is allowed but once he dies then it becomes shirk?

Answer this please

Thank you

I will be back for this later on.
G'Night

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Soldier

So what you (Ahmed and MH Kahn) are saying is that asking something from a prophet or clergy who is living is allowed but once he dies then it becomes shirk?

why would you want to ask someone who is not alive?

+ when in graves they cant hear you anyway

but you cannot make hear those who are in graves

[35:22]

so yes it is a form of shirk.

And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor)
2:186

when we ask someone to make dua for us on earth we do not call onto them as would be done when they are in their graves. Astaghfirullah.
when you go to a grave youd 'ask' the person to help you which is shirk is you are supplicating not to Allah but to this grave.

will reply later

this sounds like shirk
i read an article the other day about it.
ill look for it and ill post as soon as i find it.

Shirk (Polytheism)

Polytheism is a belief in and worship of many deities. Islam considers shirk illogical and totally unacceptable when referring to deity.

If there were in the heavens and the earth other gods beside Allah, there would be confusions in both (heaven and earth) but glory be to Allah, the Lord of the throne; high is He above what they attribute to Him. (Al Anbiya:22)
As the verse above makes very clear, the order of the universe, the ecological balance and the oneness of the Creator is more logical than many gods and indeed several wills and authorities.

In Islam, shirk is the greatest sin. It is the only sin that cannot be forgiven by Allah (s.w.t.) on the Day of Judgment. As said in the Qur'an:

Verily, Allah forgives not that rivals should be set up in the worship with Him. He forgives save that (anything else) to whom He pleases and whoever set up rivals with Allah he has indeed done a tremendous sin. (Al Nisa:48)
Why does shirk occupy such a serious position in Islam?

Several of the main reasons are:

1. Shirk causes the greatest downfall of human status and dignity

Man is the best creation of Allah (s.w.t.), created in 'the highest of forms' (Al Tin:4). He is the khalifatul fir ardh [the vicegerent of Allah (s.w.t.)]. He falls 'to the lowest of the low' (Al Tin:5) when he takes any other creation of Allah (s.w.t.) as deities or gods.

Turn unto Allah (only), not ascribing partners unto Him, for whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, it is as if he had fallen from the sky and the birds had snatched him or the wind had blown him to a far off place. (Al Hajj:31)
2. Shirk is the root of evil and superstition

It is because of shirk that man can believe in the powers of jinn, spirits and particular human beings. Some believe that they can predict future events or cause an event to occur or not to occur. All these can give rise to various forms of evil or ignorant practices.

3. Shirk is tyranny and injustice

An injustice is to withhold someone's rights or treat someone in an unfair manner. In praising and worshipping deities that have no power whatsoever to control his life, man forgets Allah's (s.w.t.) sole right to be worshipped. He ignores his Creator, Who had given him his life and thus is ungrateful and unjust to Allah (s.w.t.).

When Luqman said to his son while advising him "Oh my son! Do not ascribe partners to Allah. Indeed shirk is a great injustice." (Luqman:13)
4. Shirk is the cause of anxiety and fear

Because the mushrik believes in the powers of his various deities, he is always living in constant fear, whereas the only one to be feared is Allah (s.w.t.), as all other things are dependent upon Him.

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe partners unto Allah for which no warrant has been revealed. (Al Nisa:151)
5. Shirk denies rewards in the hereafter

For those who associate partners with Allah (s.w.t.), heaven has been made haram for them.

Indeed they do blaspheme those who say that Allah is Jesus, the son of Mary, but Jesus said "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord". Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him heaven and the fire will be his abode. (Al Maidah:72)
FORMS OF SHIRK

There are two forms of shirk. One is known as shirk akbar and another as shirk asghar.

Shirk akbar is a 'major' act of shirk that cannot be forgiven by Allah (s.w.t.) and whoever dies while committing it will not be able to enter Jannah.

Shirk asghar are 'minor', more unnoticeable acts of shirk that, if done continuously, might take one 'out of' iman.

SHIRK AKBAR

There are two kinds of shirk akbar -

1. Shirk akbar jali (clear)

This type of shirk akbar is to worship a god or several gods besides Allah (s.w.t.). These 'gods' can be in any kind of form, whether cosmic objects, animals, spirits, jinn or human beings such as priests, kings or rulers.

2. Shirk akbar khafi (subtle)

These types of major shirk include:

* when one prays or supplicates to something other than Allah (s.w.t.)

For example: pious ancestors, dead persons, saints etc. Some say that praying or supplicating to them does not necessarily mean worshipping them. However, Islam stresses that praying or supplicating to something or someone is actually worshipping. (Refer to Tafsir Al Mu'minum:60)

* when one takes a lawgiver or lawmaker other than Allah

This includes all kinds of laws governing human life. The right to make something halal or haram, or to judge in human affairs belongs solely to Allah (s.w.t.). This pertains to both 'religious' and 'secular' in life in Islam. According to Islam, obeying someone while disobeying Allah (s.w.t.), even in the realm of mundane life, is like worshipping it.

SHIRK ASGHAR

There are many forms of shirk asghar or minor shirk. The term 'minor' here does not mean that they are not as grave or serious. Rather it means that these forms of shirk are more inconspicuous and unnoticeable compared to the others.

This form of shirk has been described by the Prophet (s.a.w.s.):

Shirk in the Muslim nation is more inconspicuous than the creeping of the black ant on a black rock in the pitch darkness of the night.
Hence, Muslims should shun and guard themselves very carefully from these kinds of shirk because the most 'minor' shirk may incur a heavier penalty than the most serious sin in Islam. Committing or practicing any act of shirk, whether major or minor, can make one's deeds unacceptable by Allah (s.w.t.).

Common forms of shirk asghar:

* to swear with names other than Allah

This was a common practice of the Arabs during the Prophet's (s.a.w.s.) time. They used to swear with the Ka'aba's name, with a pious ancestor's name, or more commonly, with the names of the idols they worshipped, e.g. Al-Latta, Az-Uzza etc. This is shirk because indirectly it gives some recognition of power or glorification to the being named. Says the Prophet (s.a.w.s.):

Whoever swears with other than Allah, he has committed an act of shirk and kufr.
* to adorn something that is believed to be a form of 'protection from misfortune'

Again, this was a common practice of the early Arabs and is to some extent still prevalent today. Wearing certain bangles, necklaces and amulets was believed to be able to weaken jinn or evil spirits or protect oneself from 'al-ain', misfortune etc. From Imam Ahmad, narrated by Umran bin Hussain:

Once the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) saw a man wearing a yellow bangle and asked him, "What is this?" The man answered, "It is al-wahinah (that which weakens)." The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said, "Take it off! Verily it will not increase you in anything, except sickness and if you die adorning it, no happiness will come to you forever."
This emphasis and serious attention given by the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) shows the need to shun all forms of shirk and close all doors that might lead to it.

to practice, involve or believe in any form of sihir (sorcery) including charms, incantations, astrology etc.
This is stated in a Hadith:

There are three kinds of people that will not enter paradise: the drinker, the one who acknowledges sorcery and the one who breaks silaturahim (kinship). (Ahmad and Ibn Habban)
Astrology is said to be part of this because of the Hadith:

Whoever partakes in one part of astrology (the art of the stars), verily he has partaken in sorcery. (Abu Dawood)
This, however, does not include using the stars in navigation, traveling, etc.

* to believe in 'fortune-telling'

From a Hadith by Muslim, the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) once said:

Whoever approaches a fortune-teller, inquires him/her and acknowledges him/her, his prayers will not be accepted for forty days.
A Hadith by Abu Dawood relates:

Whoever approaches a fortune-teller and acknowledges him/her that person has committed kufr to revelation from Allah.
* to believe in evil omens

This happens when a person intends to do something, but decides not to do it because of experiencing or 'seeing' certain evil signs or omens. Says the Prophet (s.a.w.s.):

"Whoever cancels one's intention to do something because of attiyarah (an evil omen), that one has committed shirk". The companions asked, "What is its kafarah (penalty for repentance)?" The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) answered, saying, "O Allah, there is no good except from You and there is no misfortune except from You. Indeed, there is no god but You". (Imam Ahmad)
* to have riya

This means to perform acts or to show off in order to gain praise or fame, or for worldly purposes.

* to have no redha

This implies being inwardly dissatisfied with an inevitable condition that has been ordained for one by Allah (s.w.t.); to continuously lament that if one had not done such and such a thing, one would have had a better result.

* to be excessive in one's reverence, respect and 'glorification' of prophets, pious leaders, sheikhs or imams

This has brought to the practice of rituals and ceremonies in glorification of these people and the act of beautifying, building upon, lighting up and even worshipping their graves.

* to use ambiguous words that might involve shirk

This includes phrases like 'In the name of Allah and the name of so and so' (e.g. a leader), or 'if it was not for so and so', or to use a name that is exclusively Allah's (s.w.t.) in naming something or even to curse Allah's creation.

Belief in monotheism and purification of one's servitude to Allah (s.w.t.) can be achieved by:

* not worshipping anything or anyone other than Allah (s.w.t.) nor glorifying something or someone as one glorifies Allah (s.w.t.)

All that is worshipped and glorified other than Allah (s.w.t.) should be 'dethroned'. From the Qur'an:

That we do not worship other than Allah and we do not associate Him with any other and we do not make others as gods beside Allah. (Al Imraan:64)
* not taking anything besides Allah (s.w.t.) as one's protector and benefactor and loving it as one should love Allah (s.w.t.)

And amongst man there are those who worship others beside Allah and they love them as they should love Allah. (Al Baqara:165)

The early Arabs, for example, had loved and revered their idols and their leaders and had felt both fear and awe towards them. This kind of love and glorification should be given only to Allah (s.w.t.).

* not taking a lawgiver besides Allah (s.w.t.) nor giving obedience to any other as one obeys Allah (s.w.t.)

Verily, the decider for all human affairs should be Allah (s.w.t.). he alone has the best knowledge about His creation; has the deepest love for them and has full knowledge of what is right and wrong, good and evil.

The Qur'an has stated that whoever judges with other than Allah (s.w.t.) and His Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has actually fallen out of Iman into obedience to shaytan. (See Al Nisa:60-61)

We must think and realize that there are many traps in our society which could lead us to all forms of shirk.

As Muslims, we must also be careful not to follow the ways of the non-believers.

We must lead our lives as true Muslims, following Islam as correctly as we can, being conscious of these traps of shirk that the world invites us to.

REFERENCE:

Yusof Qardawi The Meaning of Tawheed (Malay translation by Pustaka Salam) 1987
Shirk (Polytheism)

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Soldier

So what you (Ahmed and MH Kahn) are saying is that asking something from a prophet or clergy who is living is allowed but once he dies then it becomes shirk?

It is allowed to ask anyone to make Dua for you while they are alive. It is Shirk when they are dead.

So from your beliefs it is right to ask someone who is livingbut wrong to ask someone who is dead.

If I show you proof from hadiths will you abolish this belief?

A person who cant help himself in the grave even and is depending on the Mercy of Allah, tell me how can he help you then?

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Soldier

So from your beliefs it is right to ask someone who is livingbut wrong to ask someone who is dead.

If I show you proof from hadiths will you abolish this belief?

Please show. Ive been asking you that from the time i posted here.

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Soldier

So from your beliefs it is right to ask someone who is livingbut wrong to ask someone who is dead.

If I show you proof from hadiths will you abolish this belief?

Im still waiting for this hadith.