IbnAbdulHakim
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al-Qaida in Iraq
- Thread starter MTAFFI
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Keltoi
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Is that your way of saying you hope the U.S. kills more Al-Qaeda members? I agree.
Ninth_Scribe
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Hi Keltoi,
I never suggested the military should include them. Al Qaeda in Iraq and several other groups made the accusation that the U.S. military was concealing deaths, which prompted the re-count. It was all a misunderstanding and I was merely explaining why the numbers differed. The U.S. military is peeved by the private security firms, but only because they swipe their soldiers:
http://www.workforce.com/section/00/feature/24/15/59/index.html
But to assume that private contractors don't carry guns - well, that was just plain laughable. And yes, some of them are bounty hunters.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=10288
The Ninth Scribe
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Keltoi
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Who said the contractors didn't carry guns? The point was that contractors don't use AK-47's.
^^ that is why i didnt even bother responding, 9th scribe says wrong while she quotes me saying that they dont carry ak-47's, and then goes on a tangent that didnt even relate, i figured it was to obvious for me to even bother with a response. Bottom line, THEY DONT CARRY THAT KIND OF GUN AND NEITHER DOES OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL, SO WHO WAS IN THAT VIDEO SHOOTING? I CAN TELL YOU IT WASNT AMERICANS
Ninth_Scribe
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Sergeant Miller and Tech. Sgt. Shawn Carter from Offutt, established a 10-day military police training academy covering entry control and tactical control points; AK-47 weapons training; tower observation procedures; squad-level tactics; and personnel, vehicle and area searches. They expect to put 30 students through the training at a time.
http://www.sigir.mil/reports/pdf/audits/06-033.pdf
Weapons provided by the Department of Defense Using the Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund:
Of the nineteen contracts, two accounted for 67% of the weapons cost and adding a third contract, these three accounted for 73% of weapons cost. The weapons purchased with IRRF {Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund} funds were small arms. Typical small arms include 9mm semi automatic pistols and 7.62 mm assault rifles as well as .50 caliber heavy machine guns and rocket propelled grenade launchers (RPG-7). The single largest group of weapons by type were Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 and Glock 9 mm semi-automatic pistols...
http://www.sigir.mil/reports/pdf/audits/06-033.pdf
Question: Do you guys actually read these reports or do you just skim the titles?
The Ninth Scribe
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hahahahahhaha yourself
these weapons are provided to the Iraqi security forces not the american troops, do you read these reports or just skim through teh first 10 lines? So again I will say, the US troops do not use the AK-47 assault rifle
no different than when they say
Airstrikes targeted a convoy of suspected Taliban militants who had left a meeting in western Afghanistan, killing 14 and wounding 10, a provincial governor said Friday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070518/ap_on_re_as/afghan_violence
it doesnt mean that it is a big deal it just means that people on the US's side were killed, the enemy is reported the same way, except we cheer with each of their deaths
/Peace To AllSome Of The Violence In Iraq (Car Bombings & Sectarianism) Is Instigated By The Pentagon's Mercenaries (AKA: "Civilian Contractors)
(SOME OF) THE PENTAGON'S HIRED MERCENARIES ARE REMOTELY DETONATING CAR BOMBS AND ASSASSINATING SUNNIS AND SHIAS - TO PROVOKE A U.S./ISRAELI PLANNED CIVIL WAR THAT WILL DISMEMBER IRAQ?
1. SHADOW COMPANY (about a former "security contractor's" book)...
http://www.americanprogress.org/projects/reelprogress/shadow_company.html
Excerpt only...
According to Robert Young Pelton's upcoming book Licensed To Kill: Hired Guns in the War on Terror, there are now over 70,000 armed men working as security contractors in Iraq.
(Book also reviewed by Amazon)...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AQF3JA5OEV4XR
----------------
2. The above revelation by Pelton leads to this VALID QUESTION:
Have any of the Pentagon's 70,000 (Civilian) "Hired Guns" (AND Israeli IDF assassination experts) been "provoking violence" in Iraq (disguised as Iraqis), remotely detonating car bombs and indiscriminately murdering both Shias and Sunnis - to create a U.S./Israeli planned civil war that dismembers the nation?
LA Times' William Arkin wrote that "Provoking Violence" globally has been the Cheney/Rumsfeld plan since 2002 as described in the following...
HAVE RUMSFELD (AND CHENEY) 'COMBATTED TERRORISM' BY CAUSING IT?
http://www.indymedia.org/en/2006/05/839272.shtml
Excerpt only...
IN 2002, RUMSFELD ORDERED GLOBAL COVERT VIOLENCE BY U.S. "SPECIAL FORCES" - TO "PROVOKE" VOLENCE! "to 'combat terrorism' by causing it!"
(Open and read the following article)...
3. THE PROVOCATEUR STATE: IS THE CIA BEHIND THE IRAQI "INSURGENTS" -- AND GLOBAL TERRORISM?
May 10, 2005
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MOR505A.html
Excerpts only...
According to Los Angeles Times military analyst William Arkin, writing Oct. 27, 2002, Rumsfeld set out to create a secret army, "a super-Intelligence Support Activity" network that would "bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception," to stir the pot of spiraling global violence.
According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--would actually carry out secret missions designed to provoke terrorist groups into committing violent acts. The P2OG, a 100-member, so-called "counter-terrorist" organization with a $100-million-a-year budget, would ostensibly target "terrorist leaders," but according to P2OG documents procured by Arkin, would in fact carry out missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among "terrorist groups"--which, according to the Defense Secretary's logic, would subsequently expose them to "counter-attack" by the good guys. In other words, the plan is to execute secret military operations (assassinations, sabotage, "deception") which would intentionally result in terrorist attacks on innocent people, including Americans--essentially, to "combat terrorism" by causing it!
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Reported earlier, Israeli IDF/Mossad have been training (and arming) the Kurds, especially for terror raids inside Iran. But ignored by almost all American Jounalists: Rumsfeld and his boss Cheney, hired Israeli IDF soldiers to train their special Iraq "hunter-killer" teams...
5. ISRAEL TRAINS US ASSASSINATION SQUADS IN IRAQ - Julian Borger in Washington
Dec. 9, 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4815008-103550,00.html
Excerpts only...
Israeli advisers are helping train US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations in Iraq, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders, US intelligence and military sources said yesterday.
US forces in Iraq's Sunni triangle have already begun to use tactics that echo Israeli operations in the occupied territories, sealing off centres of resistance with razor wire and razing buildings from where attacks have been launched against US troops.
"This is basically an assassination programme. That is what is being conceptualised here. This is a hunter-killer team," said a former senior US intelligence official, who added that he feared the new tactics and enhanced cooperation with Israel would only inflame a volatile situation in the Middle East.
"It is bonkers, insane. Here we are - we're already being compared to Sharon in the Arab world, and we've just confirmed it by bringing in the Israelis and setting up assassination teams."
----------------
Following are additional articles supporting the suspicion that Bush appointed "NeoCon" civilians running our Pentagon may be directing FALSE FLAG "terror" attacks in Iraq. Read and judge for yourself...
6. 'UNKNOWN AMERICANS' ARE PROVOKING CIVIL WAR IN IRAQ -
By Robert Fisk
The Independent, UK
04/29/06
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12885.htm
Excerpts only...
The Americans, my interlocutor suspected, are trying to provoke an Iraqi civil war so that Sunni Muslim insurgents spend their energies killing their Shia co-religionists rather than soldiers of the Western occupation forces... "One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: 'Come back in a week.' When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn't get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up."
Impossible, I think to myself. But then I remember how many times Iraqis in Baghdad have told me similar stories.
"There was another man, trained by the Americans for the police. He too was given a mobile and told to drive to an area where there was a crowd - maybe a protest - and to call them and tell them what was happening. Again, his new mobile was not working. So he went to a landline phone and called the Americans and told them: 'Here I am, in the place you sent me and I can tell you what's happening here.' And at that moment there was a big explosion in his car."
7. MEDIA DISINFORMATION AND THE NATURE OF THE IRAQI RESISTANCE
By Ghali Hassan
May 29, 2005
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/HAS505C.html
Excerpts only...
In this regard, the creation, arming and financing of 'ethnic militias' and death squads by U.S. forces is designed to create ethnic divisions and provoke sectarian violence among Iraqis.
These US sponsored militia groups are:
The Kurdish Peshmerga whose leaders supported the U.S. invasion and Occupation.
The Iranian-trained Badr Brigades, The armed wing of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) led by Ibrahim Al-Jaaferi of the Daíwa party, The INC militia of Ahmed Chalabi, and the INA militia of Iyad Allawi.
All these groups are involved in terrorist activities against Iraqi civilians. The latter three groups, entered Iraq on the back of U.S. tanks, without valid Iraqi citizenship papers.
The Kurdish militia are the Occupation's most loyal collaborators, receiving arms and money from their masters. Together with the occupying forces, they are responsible for wide scale atrocities in Iraqi towns and villages.
Together with the Peshmerga, Israeli Mossad agents and U.S. forces, the militia groups went on systematic killings of thousands of prominent Iraqi academics, scientists, politicians and religious leaders. They also participated in the atrocity and total destruction of Fallujah, which is depicted as "the storming of Fallujah" in most mainstream media. The city was completely destroyed and still a "no go zone" for Iraqis. Other Iraqi towns and cities have not escaped this deliberate destruction.
--------------------
8. SHIA CLERIC MUQTADA AL-SADR BLAMES US FORCES FOR SUNDAY MASSACRE
March 13, 06
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1448002.cms
Excerpts only...
BAGHDAD: Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ...said terrorists carried out the bombing "under US air cover" arguing that the halt of telephone connections before the incident was proof of the cooperation between the terrorists and the occupier to "destabilise the security of this Shia region."
"I find Sunnis and Shias innocent of this act," he added.
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Some Of The Violence In Iraq (Car Bombings & Sectarianism) Is Instigated By The Pentagon's Mercenaries (AKA: "Civilian Contractors)
...
Why continue to blame everyone else, even if this was at all true... which i dont believe it is... oh just forget it, it is hopeless
So, if it "was true," we shouldn't even complain, blame, seek Justice and prosecution for these atrocities & war crimes?
We should continue to blame "others," due to the very fact that they are still murdering civilians in the dozens, every day.
We should continue to remind the world, even if these atrocities end, lest the world forget what transpired.
We were lied to and manipulated, and are complicit in the actions of our government.
This isn't an isolated incident. It has happened before.
Check out what we did in El Salvador. We created death squads. And the man who spawned the "Salvador Option," is none other than Negroponte.
Also, check out the "Phoenix Program," which was carried out during the Vienam War.
I read an article by a former CIA Angola Station Chief, he said that since the CIA's inception, it was responsible for the deaths of around 6 million people in the Third World.
Check out "Operation Gladio," that took place in Europe. Where several goverments conspired and initiated car bombings and blamed it on left wing organizations.
Check out how British Security was responsible for several car bombings in Northern Ireland. They even helped the IRA produce explosives.
Check out "Operation Northwoods," during the time of JFK, where the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recommended setting of bombs on American soil, blowing up a Jet liner, and blaming it on Fidel Castro, which would have been an excuse to invade Cuba.
Check out how the CIA aided Chile in detonating the Car of Salvador Allende, in Wasington, D.C.
Check out how the CIA had Posada blow up an air plane and bomb targets in Cuba and Venezuela.
Check out how we have Vietnamese terrorists in California, that plot bomb attacks inside Vietnam.
Check out what really occurred in the Gulf of Tonkin (declassified documents at the National Security Archive).
Check out how Kissinger/Ford/UK aided Suharto in invading, killing and annexing East Timor. US and UK vessels rode along shot-gun and protected the Indonesian ivasion force, and supplied it with miitary equipment and intelligence.
These are Just a few examples...
Please provide proof of your claims, also what does all this have to do with Al-Qaida you again try to make them faultless. I dont claim the US isnt without fault, I am saying that the majority of the fault and problems are from the US. You can give this and that but the fact remains
Ninth_Scribe
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These weapons were made available to the so-called civilian "contractors" who are otherwise identified as 'hired guns'. The U.S. government brokered the deal.
Definition: Your complaint against the video which started this discussion has absolutely no realistic ground, other than in your imagination. American contractors do use this weapon. But if you like, I can show you more detailed reports. I have what seems to be an endless supply of them.
I have been studying the weapons sales to the Middle East for the past month. I'm not pleased by what I have seen so far.
The Ninth Scribe
Look scribe, you can say what you wish but the fact is US contractor, troops, or otherwise do not use these guns. the AK-47 is considered an obsolete weapon to our military and our "hired guns" They are onyl effective at a short range, and they are out dated compared to the weapons that have been specifically designed for our troops in iraq. I am sorry you can except when you are wrong, but I have a vast amount of knowledge regarding the weapons used in Iraq, and there is no doubt you are wrong. The AK 47 may be sold to iraqis and their security forces, but it is not used by the US. The gun used in that video, is either an ak 47 or an AR 15 neither of which is used by the US. So you are wrong. post all the facts you wish about arms sales to the iraqis, but it doesnt change the fact that that video was posted to defame the US troops by showing either terrorist actions or the actions of someone who bought an ak or ar from the US or from the black market. You are wrong 9th scribe, and I guarantee you that you will lose (if you havent already) this argument. It is indisputable that those were not american troops or contractors, when looking at the transportation and the weapon.
Ninth_Scribe
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You have absolutely no proof for this statement other than your word, which means nothing when compared to the word of experienced military personnel, the Department of Defense and several U.S. generals. If you want to sound off, that's fine, but you'll never convince anyone that you're statements have any real merit without providing proof.
Fact: The DoD did provide and distribute these "obsolute" weapons to several private "contractor" firms and they did train them in their correct use. So how the h-ll can you sit there with a straight face and tell this forum that Americans don't use these weapons - when the military was the one issuing them out to the companies who hired the American contractors?
The senior military officials have admitted to this, so your glorious say-so on this issue... amounts to diddly. You're in way over your head.
The Ninth Scribe
really it is funny how ill informed you actually are, in these regards. You are the one claiming the US uses these weapons, you provide the proof, you wont find it because they arent used by the US, but please do waste as much of your time as you wish. I dont care if anyone is convinced about the US not using these weapons, anyone who knows anything about the DOD and the weapons used in Iraq already know that the Ak is simply an outdated weapon, and that is why it is given to the Iraqis, obviously we wont give them our most advanced weapons to use against us. Tell me, why would the US use this gun considering the fact that we have far more accurate weapons, from up close and from a distance, at our disposal? Why would we use these weapons? They are not near as effective nor do they have the same killing power as say the M16A4 which is used in combat situations or the m40a3 which is a sniper rifle commonly used in Iraq. You are claiming the US uses the AK 47, you are wrong, please provide a single article , statement or otherwise, showing US troops or contractors using this weapon. This weapon is used in bank robberies for its aggressive look and for scaring the living crap out of innocent Iraqis but not by US forces, it is out dated and there would be no reason for it use. (lets not forget the US has the largest military budget in the world, why would we buy the crap weapons for our troops)
Anyways lets see some proof, or at the very least another amusing post that clearly shows your ignorance to the matter.
The weapon used in the video was and Ak or AR, it was not Us troops or personel, it was either Iraqi security forces or terrorist or some random maniac
/Peace To AllBritish Intelligence In Bed With Al Qaeda
The following report deals with a classic example of a "Terrorism By Proxy" and "False Flag Operation," where Britain's MI6 colluded with a Libyan Al Qaeda Cell, in an attempt to assassinate Libyan President Mumar Al Qadafi.
It also sheds light on how Britain and America blocked earlier attempts to arrest Osama Bin Laden.
In a report titled: "MI6 'Halted Bid To Arrest Bin Laden,'"
Martin Bright (Home Affairs Editor) reported on Sunday November 10, 2002, for the Guardian/Observer that:
So, in the same breath, those governments have the audacity to assert that they are fighting "Internationall Terrorism," yet they hire those groups to sow mayhem and destruction. And after the work bears its evil fruit, they sit back and self-righteously proclaim that the "Terrorists," were behind that attack. Conveniently leaving out their role in those barbaric acts.
Now, when it was revealed that Saddam Hussein plotted to assassinate George Bush Sr., President Clinton order a strike on Iraq, in retaliation.
Now that it has been revealed that Britain actively saught to murder a foreign leader, what should Libya do to Britain?
Would it be fair for Libya to retaliate?
Or is that option only allowed for Western governments?
I am in no way advocating a strike on Britain.
I'm merely shedding light on the MASSIVE HYPOCRISY of some Western governments.
Who is it again that is waging war against peace, stability and civilization?
But it shouldn't come as a surprise. Certain Western governments have a rich history of using terrorism against their own people.
The very people they vowed to "Protect" and "Serve."
1. MI6 'Halted Bid To Arrest Bin Laden'
Source:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/news/story/...,837333,00.html
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