Are Muslims today backward?

[Dawud_uk]

perhaps one of the christians or jews on this board might be able to help find the correct reference, but this 'sunnah of Allah' to correct mankind doesnt just belong to this nation of the muslims but to the previous nations that followed the laws of Allah.

i remember beign told about a section of the bible where the jews are crying out for help, saying their enemies have come against them and why has Allah not answered their prayers in their time of need.

the answer comes back that he did answer their need, he sent their enemies against them.

in the struggle their is purification of the soul as well as purification of the society but today we think we can do things without struggle, without strife, that the way that Allah tested the people of the past and its solutions is different from today which is foolish.

as imam malik said, the last of the ummah will be corrected by what the first of the ummah was corrected by (to paraphrase as dont have the exact reference).

 

[Nerd]

It was the perversion of religious teaching rather than turning away from Allah that is to blame for the root cause of the symptoms.

For example:

The much 'dignified' women in Saudi Arabia have no rights, no representation, no freedoms. Not even the right to drive a car. (Now, I'm no fan of female drivers - but when did this restriction on motor vehicles creep into the Qur'an?)

 

[Dawud_uk]

It was the perversion of religious teaching rather than turning away from Allah that is to blame for the root cause of the symptoms.

For example:

The much 'dignified' women in Saudi Arabia have no rights, no representation, no freedoms. Not even the right to drive a car. (Now, I'm no fan of female drivers - but when did this restriction on motor vehicles creep into the Qur'an?)

i hardly think that qualifies as the worst perversion of the deen but it is one of the most silly.

i mean, the women of the times of Rasoolullah saws were allowed to ride horses and camals, which is more revealling being on top of a camal or inside a car?

it is also totally counter productive, as often the richer women hire drivers who are men and are then alone with them or the poorer women get taxis alone with men. where is the sense in it?

 

[Umar001]

It was the perversion of religious teaching rather than turning away from Allah that is to blame for the root cause of the symptoms.

For example:

The much 'dignified' women in Saudi Arabia have no rights, no representation, no freedoms. Not even the right to drive a car. (Now, I'm no fan of female drivers - but when did this restriction on motor vehicles creep into the Qur'an?)

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

I could not disagree more dear brother, may Allah reward you with good. I think it us turning away rather than someone changing the teachings.

Here in the Uk for example, you find that a lot of people who only bother to turn up for jumu'ah, you find people who own shops selling alchol and pork. You find people not caring about Qur'an, not learning how to read it, you find them making rumours and backbiting if a member of the family marries a persoon from outside their village, you find a lot not wearing hijab and men who walk and act arrogantly, you find people compromising their religion for money, not praying because their job says no. You find people prefering comfort than hard work.

And the list goes on, the above is not due to some scholar here telling them not to, most people, even diviated ones tell Muslims not to sell alchol etc, yet we still do it!

As for the example you have given, my dear brother, then surely you understand that rulings are derived in various ways and not only from the Qur'an.

Br.al-Habeshi

 

[Khalisah]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

I could not disagree more dear brother, may Allah reward you with good. I think it us turning away rather than someone changing the teachings.

Br.al-Habeshi

I agree, but at the same it is not just that people are turning away from religion, but that they have come from a part of the world where a certain practice is frowned upon, in many countries it is a big issue marying outside their own village so for any-one to mary out of their country is seen as turing against your family, this is not because they think Islam is wrong to allow it, but due to the fact they are not accustomed to those types of things, and most people do not like change.
With regards to those who sell alcohol and other haram foods in their shops, I do agree with you as it is very clear that we should not be indulging in such activities. They see themselves as intergrating within their society by doing this. I am not saying that this is right- It is't.
And yes there is nothing in the Qur'an which says women should not drive, but perhaps part of the reason why it is not permitted is to protect women- and although I do not think I could cope with-out driving and having some sort of independence, it does make me sad that society (generally men) are unable to have self-control that women have to be restrcited so much. I am not a femenist, because many of the laws that are in place for women within Islam are there for a reason and whether they are easy or difficult to follow or understand, if Islam has legislated that law, then I believe Allah would not want us follow something unless there was ultimate benefit from it InshaAllah (Have I gone slightly off topic) I am sorry.

 

[Keltoi]

It might be helpful to look at history. The Europeans, meaning the French, Germans, British, etc, used to be nothing more than warlike kingdoms engaging in feudalism and endless warfare. This was during the so-called Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire. Education was virtually non-existant. Technology was rudimentary. Disease and starvation were rampant. What changed?

The answer could be a long and interesting essay, but it is worth considering.

 

[Muezzin]

Was the former president of Pakistan General Pervez Musharaff, right when he said: "Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race"

Maybe he was using the Royal 'We'.

 

[doorster]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

I could not disagree more dear brother, may Allah reward you with good. I think it us turning away rather than someone changing the teachings.

Here in the Uk for example, you find that a lot of people who only bother to turn up for jumu'ah, you find people who own shops selling alchol and pork. You find people not caring about Qur'an, not learning how to read it, you find them making rumours and backbiting if a member of the family marries a persoon from outside their village, you find a lot not wearing hijab and men who walk and act arrogantly, you find people compromising their religion for money, not praying because their job says no. You find people prefering comfort than hard work.

And the list goes on, the above is not due to some scholar here telling them not to, most people, even diviated ones tell Muslims not to sell alchol etc, yet we still do it!

As for the example you have given, my dear brother, then surely you understand that rulings are derived in various ways and not only from the Qur'an.

Br.al-Habeshi

all the ills of Muslim world are caused by UK "Muslims" abandoning religion and selling alcohol. and all the problems will go away if

• 1)those who have Muslim names in UK, stop selling alcohol and pork
• 2) and Muslims of UK should let anyone off the street come and propose marriage to to their daughter

then Saudi Arabia will stop oppressing women
sections of Egyptian and Pakistan will move out of shanty towns built around refuse collections (living of discarded rubbish)
Pakistan will have schools and doctors for every village, salafis of Pakistan and Sudan etc. will stop murdering Sufis

hm.. them Britishers have a lot to answer for (at least Israel and America have not been blamed this time)

oh and I forgot I should stop using z and s sounds in Arabic words, must use dh & th instead then ummat will improve more too

:rollseyes

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Maybe he was using the Royal 'We'.

:bump1:

 

[doorster]

It might be helpful to look at history. The Europeans, meaning the French, Germans, British, etc, used to be nothing more than warlike kingdoms engaging in feudalism and endless warfare. This was during the so-called Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire. Education was virtually non-existant. Technology was rudimentary. Disease and starvation were rampant. What changed?

The answer could be a long and interesting essay, but it is worth considering.

The Muslims, meaning the [fill-in any Muslim country's name], etc, are nothing more than warlike kingdoms engaging in feudalism and endless warfare. This is during the so-called modern era after the fall of the Mughal then Usmani Empire. Education iss virtually non-existent. Technology is rudimentary (or bought from west). Disease and starvation is rampant.

 

[YusufNoor]

It might be helpful to look at history. The Europeans, meaning the French, Germans, British, etc, used to be nothing more than warlike kingdoms engaging in feudalism and endless warfare. This was during the so-called Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire. Education was virtually non-existant. Technology was rudimentary. Disease and starvation were rampant. What changed?

they went to learn from the Muslims in Spain...

The answer could be a long and interesting essay, but it is worth considering.

not really an essay question, could've been multiple choice...

 

[Umar001]

all the ills of Muslim world are caused by UK "Muslims" abandoning religion and selling alcohol. and all the problems will go away if

• 1)those who have Muslim names in UK, stop selling alcohol and pork
• 2) and Muslims of UK should let anyone off the street come and propose marriage to to their daughter

then Saudi Arabia will stop oppressing women
sections of Egyptian and Pakistan will move out of shanty towns built around refuse collections (living of discarded rubbish)
Pakistan will have schools and doctors for every village, salafis of Pakistan and Sudan etc. will stop murdering Sufis

hm.. them Britishers have a lot to answer for (at least Israel and America have not been blamed this time)

oh and I forgot I should stop using z and s sounds in Arabic words, must use dh & th instead then ummat will improve more too

:rollseyes

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Dear brother I don't know if English is your first language, I said, Here in the Uk for example, this 'for example' indicates that this is merely an example, a piece of the bigger puzzle, a proposed sample of what is happening on a larger scale outside the Uk. So in reply to you reply, where you said:

all the ills of Muslim world are caused by UK

Of course not, the example was to highlight the fact that a lot of us have left practicing the religion properly. An example is a lot of the Muslims in the United Kingdom.

Next, as for your seperation of: abandoning religion and selling alcohol.Then you should know that selling alchol is comes under the former. This, i.e. selling alchol, was an example of how people have abandoned the religion.

Now you're next points, as the previous are mainly misunderstandings. Once you realise that my highlighting of various things, such as selling haram, are only examples, i.e. not a comphrensive list of all the ways one abandons practicing his religion, then you will realise that merely stopping selling alchol and pork is not the only thing. What good is there if one stops selling alchol and pork yet does not pray?

As for your statement: Those who have Muslim names in UK I don't see where you get this from, not those who have Muslims names, rather, those who claim Islam as their Faith should practice their religion.

Your next statement:

and Muslims of UK should let anyone off the street come and propose marriage to to their daughter

Is probably the most offensive, probably due to personal reasons. I am sure any capable human being can see a happy middle ground between racism and heedlessness. A Muslim shouldn't be racist and place race alone as the criterion for a spouse, nor should he/she marry anyone without inquiring about it.

As for your comment:

then Saudi Arabia will stop oppressing women
sections of Egyptian and Pakistan will move out of shanty towns built around refuse collections (living of discarded rubbish)​

When Muslims practice their religion, including all I have mentioned and more, then surely oppression to women will stop and so would extreme poverty caused through greed.

oh and I forgot I should stop using z and s sounds in Arabic words, must use dh & th instead then ummat will improve more too​

Well I am sure Allah revealed the Qur'an in the Arabic language for a reason, an I am sure the arabic language has been preserved for some reasons, if one can pronounce the arabic the same way as it was done by the Prophet and his companions then why not try to do so?

As for your comment I saw: (at least Israel and America have not been blamed this time) Then this is the most embarassing of all. So we should sit here protesting against countries, Bush done x, George done y? Nay! Why is it that the Prophet Muhammad, fought against armies that outnumbered his and won? Why is it that the Muslims could stand brave for justice against opression? Was it because the United States of America did not exist? Nay! Any individual who contemplates it in his heart and reads will see why. And as always Allah knows best.

By the way, how do you think I feel when I read your reply? Do you think it softens my heart and helps me to accept any mistakes or absurdities I may have written? Do you think it helps me in accepting any mistakes, dear brother, be easy on me, for I am a young person who is quick to dismiss. So if you wish for yourself what you wish for your brother be patient with me.

Your dear Muslim brother 'Eesa

 

[doorster]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Dear brother I don't know if English is your first language, I said, Here in the Uk for example, this 'for example' indicates that this is merely an example, a piece of the bigger puzzle, a proposed sample of what is happening on a larger scale outside the Uk. So in reply to you reply, where you said:



Of course not, the example was to highlight the fact that a lot of us have left practicing the religion properly. An example is a lot of the Muslims in the United Kingdom.

Next, as for your seperation of: abandoning religion and selling alcohol.Then you should know that selling alchol is comes under the former. This, i.e. selling alchol, was an example of how people have abandoned the religion.

Now you're next points, as the previous are mainly misunderstandings. Once you realise that my highlighting of various things, such as selling haram, are only examples, i.e. not a comphrensive list of all the ways one abandons practicing his religion, then you will realise that merely stopping selling alchol and pork is not the only thing. What good is there if one stops selling alchol and pork yet does not pray?

As for your statement: Those who have Muslim names in UK I don't see where you get this from, not those who have Muslims names, rather, those who claim Islam as their Faith should practice their religion.

Your next statement:

and Muslims of UK should let anyone off the street come and propose marriage to to their daughter

Is probably the most offensive, probably due to personal reasons. I am sure any capable human being can see a happy middle ground between racism and heedlessness. A Muslim shouldn't be racist and place race alone as the criterion for a spouse, nor should he/she marry anyone without inquiring about it.

As for your comment:

then Saudi Arabia will stop oppressing women
sections of Egyptian and Pakistan will move out of shanty towns built around refuse collections (living of discarded rubbish)​

When Muslims practice their religion, including all I have mentioned and more, then surely oppression to women will stop and so would extreme poverty caused through greed.

oh and I forgot I should stop using z and s sounds in Arabic words, must use dh & th instead then ummat will improve more too​

Well I am sure Allah revealed the Qur'an in the Arabic language for a reason, an I am sure the arabic language has been preserved for some reasons, if one can pronounce the arabic the same way as it was done by the Prophet and his companions then why not try to do so?

As for your comment I saw: (at least Israel and America have not been blamed this time) Then this is the most embarassing of all. So we should sit here protesting against countries, Bush done x, George done y? Nay! Why is it that the Prophet Muhammad, fought against armies that outnumbered his and won? Why is it that the Muslims could stand brave for justice against opression? Was it because the United States of America did not exist? Nay! Any individual who contemplates it in his heart and reads will see why. And as always Allah knows best.

.

Your dear Muslim brother 'Eesa

wa alikum Salam wa rahmatullah wa barakat

No, English is not my first language (that is why I am almost always asking one of the staff to edit my posts before posting but now almost all seem upset and do not reply)

and jazak Allah khair for being so gracious

By the way, how do you think I feel when I read your reply? Do you think it softens my heart and helps me to accept any mistakes or absurdities I may have written? Do you think it helps me in accepting any mistakes, dear brother, be easy on me, for I am a young person who is quick to dismiss. So if you wish for yourself what you wish for your brother be patient with me

That makes me so ashamed and sorry for which I do not have word to appologise

later on I will repost an article (orig. found by Islamirama re: Islamic Love and arranged marriage vs. modern Lust-marriage (confused with love) to make-up with you

As for your comment I saw: (at least Israel and America have not been blamed this time) Then this is the most embarassing of all. So we should sit here protesting against countries, Bush done x, George done y? Nay! Why is it that the Prophet Muhammad, fought against armies that outnumbered his and won? Why is it that the Muslims could stand brave for justice against opression? Was it because the United States of America did not exist? Nay! Any individual who contemplates it in his heart and reads will see why. And as always Allah knows best.

no one here is going to like my answer to this.

again what has any one done? or achieved with following advice of awlakis of this world? how many decades and centuries have passed with Muslims under oppression? sucides have not achived liberation for Palestine nor Kashmir for past 6 decades are they likely to now? we need to grow some braincells and learn to play the game with strategy

 

[Keltoi]

not really an essay question, could've been multiple choice...

I'm afraid the reality is much more than that.

 

[themuffinman]

if you look at the past civilazations of the world they reached their peak after their infancy, it is because the teachings were new the people had motivation for a cause and worked twards it and the military was second to none. islam began the same way and reached its peak with the four rightly guided caliphs and sum others after, the muslim army was second to none they feared noone except allah and they would strike terror in the hearts of their enemies and love from the opressed. after it reached its peak the leaders became lax, they spent on lavish palaces and mosques and art instead of military. fear crept into the hearts and deviations of the religion of islam, we had muslims fighting muslims. gone were the days of umar when the public treasury was over flowing and not a single person was to collect the money. so yes we are backwards, but not by the standards of society today, we are backwards by not holding onto the quran and sunnah for every single aspect of our lives, we are backwards in the same sense the kuffar were still clinging to the ways of jaahilyah of pre-islamic arabia

 

[Amadeus85]

I think that the key for the progress of muslim world is education. We can see in many countries, like Malaysia, Egypt or Moroco thousands of young men and women who educated themselves. There are more and more of students in Maghreb and Iran. The most succesful muslim countries nowadays (except Malaysia and Turkey) are oil states from the Persian Gulf. The progress of Dubai or Saudi Arabia is impressive, but as we see now the sudden oil prices fall can change their situation. Yes, the situation of muslim world isnt impressive, as nowadays not only Western World but also countries like Japan, Korea, Taiwan and China are more advanced.

 

[Fishman]

Yes, the situation of muslim world isnt impressive, as nowadays not only Western World but also countries like Japan, Korea, Taiwan and China are more advanced.

The far east has probably always been more advanced. Even the Romans regarded China as their equal, basically a mirror image of the Roman Empire in the east.

 

[Keltoi]

The far east has probably always been more advanced. Even the Romans regarded China as their equal, basically a mirror image of the Roman Empire in the east.

Long before that the Persian Empire was considered the greatest in the world. A competitor to the Greeks.

There is a cycle of great expansion and the death of empires. We are in a slightly different environment in the 21st century though. The global economy is structured in such a way that 3rd world countries have a great handicap in making any great strides towards national glory. A world financial collapse could trigger a major change, but that doesn't necessarily mean greatness for anyone.

 

[Amadeus85]

The far east has probably always been more advanced. Even the Romans regarded China as their equal, basically a mirror image of the Roman Empire in the east.

Here we can ask what does it mean - "advanced" or "succesful" country. In my opinion in such country all homes have electricity and warm water. The medical care is on high level. The education is effective. The unemployment is low, which makes easy for young people to begin work. The police is uncorrupted and there is safety on the streets. The state gives enough social help to help those who really need it.
For example UK

 

[Fishman]

Long before that the Persian Empire was considered the greatest in the world. A competitor to the Greeks.

China has still been pretty powerful though, even before then. As for the Greeks, they didn't build an empire themselves (until Alexander), just had a very advanced culture.

There is a cycle of great expansion and the death of empires. We are in a slightly different environment in the 21st century though. The global economy is structured in such a way that 3rd world countries have a great handicap in making any great strides towards national glory. A world financial collapse could trigger a major change, but that doesn't necessarily mean greatness for anyone.

Where would you say that cycle is now? Does it still happen?