Can the English translation of the Quran be trusted?

[Burninglight]

Not including the 'original'...


Originally Posted by Burninglight
So who actually is the peserver of the Quran? Is it Muslim leaders or Allah?
Allaah SWT.

If i've not answered a question properly, feel free to ask inshaa'Allaah..

Well, I am not sure I am understanding what happened to Hafsa's copy of the only original after all others were burned except that Uthman returned it to her as promised, but in order to claim you have the original, you must still have it now. If you don't know were it is to be found, than why complain that Christians don't have the original manuscripts. They have copies just like Muslim do and Muslims have to deal with translation issues just like Christians when it comes to putting or writing the Quran in English.

 

[Darth Ultor]

Surah 5:51 had a translation error in my Quran. It said, "Take them not as friends" Whereas someone who actually knew Arabic said it meant, "Take them not as Allies"

 

[Burninglight]

Surah 5:51 had a translation error in my Quran. It said, "Take them not as friends" Whereas someone who actually knew Arabic said it meant, "Take them not as Allies"

case in point

 

[Aprender]

case in point

;DPicking at straws now? Even words in the English language have more than one meaning. The English word "run" and its derivatives have more than 170 different meanings on its own.

Anyway. That is not a translation error. Rather, there are some translations that capture the meaning of the Quran better than others. A translation error would be something like this; "Hace dos meses, comparara un nuevo carro." Then if I translated it as, "In two months, I will compact a new carrot." when what that sentence actually says is "Two months ago, I will buy a new car." is an error. Now, that sentence doesn't even make sense but it is the actual meaning of what was written. Translating it into "In two months, I will compact a new carrot" is the translation error.

As I said to you in the post that I wrote in Spanish, or maybe the meaning of what I wrote was lost in translation, so let's go over it again. What I am going to do is translate what I said in different ways but still not deviating from what I originally wrote in Spanish.

Sabes Español? MashaAllah.

Originally Posted by Burninglight
All of Christianity hangs on the death and resurrection of Christ! Without that Christianity cannot stand.

Ke triste! Todo lo demas no es importante? Los mandamientos? La vida de Jesus (pbuh)? Las enseñanzas de él? Las profetas? Bible? No hay Christianity sin estos? No me digas.

Translation 1: How sad! So everything else isn't important? The commandments? Jesus' life? His teachings? The Prophets? The Bible? There is no Christianity without those? Really?

Translation 2: That's sad! So all the other things aren't important? The commandments? The life of Jesus? His teachings? The prophets? No Christianity without this? Seriously?

Translation Error: What sad. So those themes are not that important? Commandments? Life? Teachings? Prophets? Christianity can't thrive without these. Tell me no

Originally Posted by Burninglight
If someone burned all the Bibles in the world. It can be reproduced because of it being committed to memory by many and to heart. I have memorized quite a bit of Scripture myself in a differnent language than my mother tongue like Spanish as well. Yo puedo aprender tambien.

Pues, su comparación con el memorización del Coran y el Bible no somos mismo! El Coran es en Arabe. Recítalo en Arabe. Léalo en Arabe. No hay Coran en Ingles, Español, o Griego. Aquellos son traducciones. Coran es solo en Arabe. Un Bible en Espanol, Ingles, o Chino es un traducción. Aunque su puede aprender el Bible en otro idiomas, no lo mismo ke original. Solo un traducciones. Un hafiz en Prague o Croatia o China o EE.UU recite el Coran solo en Arabe. Palabra por palabra.

Translation 1: Well your comparison of the memorization of the Quran with the Bible is not the same. The Quran is in Arabic. It is recited in Arabic. It is read in Arabic. There is no Quran in English, Spanish or Greek. Those are translations. The Quran is in Arabic. A Bible in Spanish, English or Chinese is a translation. Even if you could learn the Bible in other languages, it's not the same as the original. Those are only translations. A hafiz in Prague or Croatia or China or the U.S. recites the Quran only in Arabic. Word for word.

Translation 2: Well, this comparison of the memorizatin of the Quran with the Bible isn't the same. The Quran is in Arabic. It is said out loud in Arabic. It is read in Arabic. There is no Quran in English, Spanish or Greek. Those are only translations. The Quran is in Arabic. A Bible in Spanish, English or Chinese is a translation. Even if you can learn the bible in other languages, it is not the same as the first. Those are only translations. A hafiz in Prague, or Coratia or China or the U.S. recites the Quran only in Arabic. Word by word.

Translation error: The pink monkeys hopping down the willow stumbled upon someone memorizing the Quran. They were reciting it in Arabic. They couldn't speak English, Spanish or Greek and the monkeys didn't know any translations. They knew the Quran was in Arabic. And they also knew that a bible in Chinese or English is a translation and it's not the same as the authentic bible but the person who was reciting Quran was saying it in Arabic word for word.

Y no necesita ver para memorizar el Coran. Solo necesita oír y entender, mi hermano.

Translation 1: There is no need to be able to see to memorize the Quran. The only thing needed is to hear and understand, my brother.

Translation 2: You don't need to see to memorize the Quran. You only need to hear and understand, my brother.

Translation error: I need to memorize the Quran but I only need to hear and understand what my brother said.

Ojala que tiene paz.

Translation 1: I wish you peace.
Translation 2: I hope you have peace.
Translation error: He cut the banner into pieces.

Does this help clarify it a little? There are some translations of the Quran out there that capture the meaning of it better than others but if you really want to appreciate the miracle of the Quran for what it is, then you should learn Arabic so you can read it in its original language.

People don't divide over a dialect

Different dialects can change the meaning that comes across. Here, saying "Bueno" is the normal way to answer the phone. Where as in Spain they would say "Diga" which is like answering the phone and saying "Speak" here. Some people might find that rude. I have much trouble understanding the Spanish of people from Puerto Rico to the point where there is a language barrier and even when listening to people from Spain because there are certain tenses that they use over there that we don't use here.

Do know that there are enemies of Islam and religion as a whole out there who pass around corrupted translations filled with filthy words and misleading semantics. There are even versions of the Bible out there with selective verses that leave out trinitarian references to try and get Muslims to convert. Please watch the videos posted and stop grasping at straws to try and avoid what you don't want to believe. This is what you're doing at this point. I did this exact same thing for years. I tried to find whatever I could to make this way of life not make sense so I could cross it off my list and go on doing what I wanted to do with my life and shake my head at those poor oppressed Muslim women and terrorist Muslim men as I believed. Eventually you're going to run out of lies to throw at Islam. Those anti-Islam websites can only post so much and twist so much around in that tangled web of theirs until the lies and hatred spewing from their biased venom is blatantly evident.

The Quran is preserved. If you're too lazy to learn Arabic and read the original, then that's on you bro but alhamdulillah, that option is there. Until then, find a translation that best captures the meaning of the Quran in Arabic and read that.

 

[Burninglight]

Picking at straws now? Even words in the English language have more than one meaning. The English word "run" and its derivatives have more than 170 different meanings on its own.

Not really, that wasn't as significant as other things I mentioned and asked about in this thread. But while we are on topic, there is a verse in the Quran that states that "Allah is the best of planners" but the word planners is not the best translation and actually changes the meaning IMO from the Arabic; moreover, planners doesn't really fit the context. I believe the context was people are scheming and decieving, but Allah is the best of planners? The context is saying that Allah does best what the people were doing in the context, it should say Allah does what they were doing best. IOW, would the best translation of the MAKR of Allah be He is the best of schemers or decievers? Look it up in the Abrabic. So translation is not necessarily grasping at straws some translational errors are negligible and some are servere. BTW, from what you wrote in Spanish, I don't know how anyone can confuse that for compacting a carrot. lol

Different dialects can change the meaning that comes across. Here, saying "Bueno" is the normal way to answer the phone. Where as in Spain they would say "Diga" which is like answering the phone and saying "Speak" here. Some people might find that rude.

I take it you can teach me some Spanish. I feel like we are playing ping pong. I say case in point about translation and you say I am grasping at straws; now, you say see the importance of dialect; besides, diga and Bueno have nothing to do with dialect. In this case, it is the same dialect but a different choice of words. ?Me intiendes, hermana?

 

[Aprender]

BTW, from what you wrote in Spanish, I don't know how anyone can confuse that for compacting a carrot. lol

For someone who doesn't speak Spanish for all they know that could say anything. I could have just as easily said "Two months ago I will compare a new car." Comparara/compare look like they could be cognates but they're not. A non-Spanish speaker wouldn't know.

uran that states that "Allah is the best of planners" but the word planners is not the best translation and actually changes the meaning IMO from the Abrabic

Coming from the guy who isn't fluent in Arabic or any other Semitic language, I presume. :hmm:

I say case in point about translation and you say I am grasping at straws;

You are.

you say see the importance of dialect; besides, diga and Bueno have nothing to do with dialect. In this case, it is the same dialect but a different choice of words.

mg: Has plenty to do with dialect. If I answered the phone saying "speak" to my grandma she'd reach through the phone and slap me if she could for being disrespectful and talking to her like a dog. Do you know what dialect means?

di·a·lect
 
noun
1.Linguistics . a variety of a language that is distinguished from other varieties of the same language by features of phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by agroup of speakers who are set off from others geographically or socially.

A friend of mine is from Venezuela. To me the word montañas means mountains but to her it's montes which to me means hill, not mountain. Different dialect. Same language. I think you might be getting the word dialect mixed up with regional slang that might not be understood in other parts of the world. We say bro in America. Not bruv. Go to the hood in America and say "What up bruv?" and the homies would probably look at you like ^o) and smack the back of your head. "Bruv?"​

 

[YusufNoor]

Surah 5:51 had a translation error in my Quran. It said, "Take them not as friends" Whereas someone who actually knew Arabic said it meant, "Take them not as Allies"

case in point

where's Purest when you need her?

for those who posses the ability to comprehend, which seems to exclude some of our evangelical "posters", the word in question is Auliya', which can mean friends, protectors, helpers, allies, etc. i suppose some knuckleheads could claim that allies aren't your friends or that your friends aren't your allies if they wanted too, but in this case they are the same. the word friend in this case means more than acquaintance, a TRUE or REAL friend, who would by definition, be your ally.

Well, I am not sure I am understanding what happened to Hafsa's copy of the only original after all others were burned except that Uthman returned it to her as promised, but in order to claim you have the original, you must still have it now.

[quoting George Harrison at the Concert For Bangladesh] "we've forgotten Billy Preston!" you have stated, ad naseum, that the Qur'an means "recitation", and thus we only need the original "recitation" to have the original. this, we have [no matter how long it takes for you to "get it."]

If you don't know were it is to be found, than why complain that Christians don't have the original manuscripts.

we can site the sources [which, YOU also do] for the individual that did the copying, you can't even cite the authors of "your" gospels!

They have copies just like Muslim do and Muslims have to deal with translation issues just like Christians when it comes to putting or writing the Quran in English

to quote Bart Erhman [loosely], "you not only don't have originals, you only have copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the copies. it's hundreds of years later when you get to complete books, and not only that, when it comes of ALL of your ancient sources, NO 2 ARE ALIKE! [NOT EVEN 2!!!]

it isn't our fault if someone refuses to see the difference!

you can only nitpick translations of the originals. at least we know what our "Original" and where it came from.

can ANY Christian, ANYWHERE in the world, tell us the actual authors of the Gospels [citing eyewitnesses], tell us EXACTLY who copied them down, and tell us what year and in what country each was done? can just one single person tell us that?

btw, Billy Preston had a hit with, "Will it go 'round in circles"

:wa:

 

[Burninglight]

for those who posses the ability to comprehend, which seems to exclude some of our evangelical "posters", the word in question is Auliya', which can mean friends, protectors, helpers, allies, etc. i suppose some knuckleheads could claim that allies aren't your friends or that your friends aren't your allies if they wanted too, but in this case they are the same. the word friend in this case means more than acquaintance, a TRUE or REAL friend, who would by definition, be your ally.

I accept this explanation of yours. I said case in point without researching it myself and thinking of allies in the sense of war and countries and NOT in the personal one on one friend sense. But that is fine, go ahead and take not Christians for friends as the Quran states. It tells us were we stand with Muslims. Personally, I thought he brought up the point as a way to say see you can have Christian friends. It was a harmless comment on that translation. Much to do about nothing here.

 

[Aprender]

I said case in point without researching it myself and thinking of allies in the sense of war and countries and NOT in the personal one on one friend sense.

I see not researching is something that you've grown accustomed to doing on this forum. I hope you don't make other life decisions based on assumptions. It's not wise to mindlessly regurgitate drivel. You know better than that.

But that is fine, go ahead and take not Christians for friends as the Quran states. It tells us were we stand with Muslims.

Straw #2. You are so blinded with hate for Islam being the truth that you think that verse is about you? You wish that verse was about you. But guess what, it isn't about you. Watch this.

And before you hit straw #3 and say something about us having to kill non-Muslims. Watch this.

You see. It isn't about you and others like you.

I have Christian, Jewish, atheist, agnostic and happy-go-lucky humanist friends who have nothing against Islam. They're good friends. I love them. But if one of my Muslim sisters was stranded somewhere 10 miles away with no shoes and a bunch of non-Muslims staring at her like they want to kill her and it was escalating to physical assault and I had no car, I'd run, walk and trot that 10 miles just to be with her so she doesn't have to be alone and get her away from those people before they did anything to hurt her. This, I've done. That is the difference. May Allah have mercy on us all. Ameen

 

[Burninglight]

Has plenty to do with dialect. If I answered the phone saying "speak" to my grandma she'd reach through the phone and slap me if she could for being disrespectful and talking to her like a dog. Do you know what dialect means?


di·a·lect
 
noun
1.Linguistics . a variety of a language that is distinguished from other varieties of the same language by features of phonology, grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by agroup of speakers who are set off from others geographically or socially.

A friend of mine is from Venezuela. To me the word montañas means mountains but to her it's montes which to me means hill, not mountain. Different dialect. Same language. I think you might be getting the word dialect mixed up with regional slang that might not be understood in other parts of the world. We say bro in America. Not bruv. Go to the hood in America and say "What up bruv?" and the homies would probably look at you like and smack the back of your head. "Bruv?"

Okay, Aprender you are a very smart person and you busted me. You are right and you proved me wrong. my apology for my ignorance

 

[Burninglight]

I see not researching is something that you've grown accustomed to doing on this forum. I hope you don't make other life decisions based on assumptions. It's not wise to mindlessly regurgitate drivel. You know better than that.

You are tearing me up. You are right again. I almost can't handle much more of this, but sock it to me. I should be able to take all you can dish out if I have the right religion.

 

[Burninglight]

Straw #2. You are so blinded with hate for Islam being the truth that you think that verse is about you? You wish that verse was about you. But guess what, it isn't about you. Watch this.

yea, that is key out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh as written in the Bible. I didn't think the verse was about me. I was trying to look at the verse in a hopeful way but that was destroyed by certain comments. IOW, I wasn't wanting to think the verse was about me. I have hate? Maybe I have for religions, but never for people in those religions. In Christianity we can make those distinctions. Can you do that in Islam? Does Islam allow for loving your enemies as does the Bible? BTW, I don't hate Islam any more that you do Christianity

 

[Burninglight]

good night

 

[Abz2000]

burninglight, it seems you are visiting that "answeringislam" or that fake "wiki" website a lot,
i have been on that site and attempted to correct their false assertions but to no avail,
secondly answering islam claims to be a "christian" website whe many of it's articles indicate that it is actually anti-God.

the words plan and plot actually are used in different contexts depending on whom it is referring to.
you don't normally say "i plot to do such and such" , you say "i plan to do such and such" when referring to yourself,
but when an enemy maliciously plans evil against you, you call it a plot.
it is based on context and even if the same word is used in Arabic, the translation would most likely put it in context if the words are available.
that is the nature of translations that sometimes words cannot be expounded or even rendered accurately, and sometimes additional words can be used to further clarify.
peace

 

[Ramadhan]

burninglight, it seems you are visiting that "answeringislam" or that fake "wiki" website a lot,

I am sure of this.

He keeps throwing out stupid lies about Islam that are found in those sites, and can easily be refuted, if only burninglight has tiny bit of sincerity and honesty.

 

[Al-manar]

Greetings Burninglight

why don't you focus on the thread title issue?

you did well bringing Surah 5:5 , it is related to the topic ,and been answered ...
Are there any similar linguestic instances ,to be questioned?

If you have some then plz provide,otherwise the thread would be offtopic and meaningless ...

regards

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greeting of peace

Well, I am not sure I am understanding what happened to Hafsa's copy of the only original after all others were burned except that Uthman returned it to her as promised, but in order to claim you have the original, you must still have it now. If you don't know were it is to be found, than why complain that Christians don't have the original manuscripts. They have copies just like Muslim do and Muslims have to deal with translation issues just like Christians when it comes to putting or writing the Quran in English.

Okay, I shall attempt to answer your question in the simplist way I can, Inshaa'Allaah..

Uthman (ra) asked Hafsa (ra) to borrow the Mushaf in order to copy it and return it once he had finished.

Also realise that during the process of copying, he also asked the scribes to copy it in the similar dialect as it was dictated to Muhammad (May the peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)

"In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue."

Once the writing of the Qur'aan was completed, he sent it to all muslim provinces..Which concludes it to be the similar version we read today in arabic. Also, I believe Uthman (ra) kept a copy for himself.

'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied,

In regards to the Mushaf of 'Hafsa', it doesn't state that it was sent anywhere, she kept it with her untill she died. But this does not mean that the Qur'aan we have today is different to Hafsa (ra) and it only states that the Qur'aan that Uthman (ra) copied from was sent to different places. Why not ask about the copies that were sent to muslim nations? where are they? How did we manage to have the Qur'aan today similar in every country? How is that possible? And how can it be that in so many years it managed to stay in the same form for 1400 years? Why is that in every part of the world, every muslim household, it will be 'recited' to you in the same exact words.

And in regards to the originality of the bible, firstly, i'm sure you believe that the bible is 'preserved', What if someone decided they wanted to ridden the bible and the Qur'aan from the face of this earth.

Let's look at this way, if someone was to throw, burn, completely remove both books from the earth, i.e. every bible and every Qur'aan in the world, which one would you say was really preserved?

Dispite knowing that there are many around the world who've memorised this one book from word to word, is there anyone, any child, adult, women, man etc who've done this with the bible?

Also there is a great difference between a version and a translation.

 

[Burninglight]

burninglight, it seems you are visiting that "**************" or that fake "wiki" website a lot,
i have been on that site and attempted to correct their false assertions but to no avail,
secondly answering islam claims to be a "christian" website whe many of it's articles indicate that it is actually anti-God.

the words plan and plot actually are used in different contexts depending on whom it is referring to.
you don't normally say "i plot to do such and such" , you say "i plan to do such and such" when referring to yourself,
but when an enemy maliciously plans evil against you, you call it a plot.
it is based on context and even if the same word is used in Arabic, the translation would most likely put it in context if the words are available.
that is the nature of translations that sometimes words cannot be expounded or even rendered accurately, and sometimes additional words can be used to further clarify.
peace

You should be a moderator. Thanks for your response

 

[MustafaMc]

Any time something is translated into a different that the original language it loses something or is subject to the whims of an translator.

Yes, translations of any text into another language are not exactly the same as the original. However, I would not use the phrase 'subject to the whims of a translator'. We have the Arabic beside the English that is available for critique by those who know both languages and those who would make gross errors would be instantly called to account. There is of course discussion about which translation conveys the closest meaning to the Arabic, but I am confident that those translations by Muslims are accurate within the limitations of the translator. I personally have 7 translations of the Quran into English and the Majestic and the Gracious translations are my favorite. However, translations by Islamophobes such as Usama Dakdok are most definitely not to be trusted. I have personally heard him speak and I would not trust a word he has written as being trustworthy from the Islamic perspective.

 

[Burninglight]

why don't you focus on the thread title issue?

you did well bringing Surah 5:5 , it is related to the topic ,and been answered ...
Are there any similar linguestic instances ,to be questioned?

If you have some then plz provide,otherwise the thread would be offtopic and meaningless ...

regards

Good point, but I don't think I brought up Surah 5: 5, but I did bring up about the Makr of Allah (SURAH 3: 54) Btw, is it true that Abu Bakr said that he would NOT trust the Makr of Allah if he had one foot in paradise and one on earth?

IMO, I believe the English translation is not giving the true arabic meaning of the Makr of Allah. It states that Allah is the best of planners, but if we look at the beginning of that verse we can see that people (unbelivers) were deceiving, scheming and plotting, but it states that "Allah is the best of planners." Shouldn't it be a translation of the word that shows Allah is the best at doing what those unbelievers were doing in the verse namely deceiving and plotting? This hasn't been answered clearly to me.