Father charged with murdering daughter for not wearing hijab

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barney said:
Resigned, the Bible is full, well not full, but has its proportion of verses condoning stoning of women.
This is not religions fault.
It's peoples fault for beleiving it as some sort of "high moral code", when it's so obvious humanity has outgrown it.
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Valid point about the verses in the Bible. I think the difference with Christianity was the enabling aspect of the Reformation which allowed that portion of humanity to choose liberty and progress over fear and trembling before an angry Deity. I would include a change in the sociopolitical climate of the era also that precipitated a positive change in the harsh rigidity of the religious belief.

On the other hand, look at the positives. The current religions today that have evolved from those earlier give us a legacy of 10,000 years of garish rituals, human and animal sacrifice, deistic moral codes, cathedral building, sectarian strife, chants gregorian and otherwise, magic beads, smelly incense, golden icons, prayers of petition, public stonings, plastic effigies on dashboards, blind worship of an arbitrarily compiled and dubiously translated book, and lots of guys sporting big funny hats?
 
Resigned said:
and lots of guys sporting big funny hats?
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Yes, I have to admit their quite big and funny.
 
Resigned said:
Just an observation, but I find it remarkable that in all cases, these occurrences of “honor” killings and the generally brutal treatment of women under a sharia are somehow always divorced from islam, even though the Koran contains verses regarding the allowance of striking women.

I find that simply... uncanny.
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There exists no country in the world at this present time that applies the correct sharia. It's just bs under the name of sharia. :)

ISLAM FORBIDS HONOR KILLINGS
 
Abdullah ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community."

But the idea is that these adulteresses are given trial first before their blood is spilt.
The Honour Killers simply bypass this step, as they know that if they try to take their daughter to a english court for adultry or for being unattended , the court will just ignore it because it's not a crime.
With no sharia court availible, they dont have any other choice do they?
 
Yes, the punishment for adulterers is death. Both men and women. The punishment is carried out by the state ONLY, fathers can not just go around killing their daughters, like this guy did. And also, four reliable men must testify that they witnessed the act and actually saw the male sexual organ inserted into the vagina. If they can not testify to that, then there is absolutely no punishment to either the male or female.

"With no sharia court available, they dont have any other choice do they?"
It's not up to them to decide. Since there is no sharia court, they simply leave it to Allah. Not take it into their own hands.
 
The way forward is - not killing your own family - for such trivial issues - thats disgraceful.

Im sure, alot of people heard of honour killings/forced marriages. I want to make it clear, Islam has nothing to do with them happening - it is purely disgusting culture (which Islam was indeed brough to destroy such things, even in the time of Prophet :saw:, where indeed alot of sickening rituals were eradicated). Its sad, that it is not so rare to see all these sick honour killings. Never will it be allowed by Islam and those who defend such actions - are NOT representing Islam, but their twisted culture. Things like this is somewhat more frequent in Pakistani (south asia in general) and places like Afghanistan.
 
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First of all, can anyone show me that the Quran says its ok to beat your wife? I do not recall reading such absurdity.

I think 99% of the muslims agree (except talha) that what the father did was wrong. As I have said before it is his fault for not teaching his daughter the importance of modesty. And even if she refused to wear the headscarf she should have at least wore loose fitting clothes that did not reveal her figure and covered her bosom like the Quran says.

[33:59]
O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[24:31]
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.
 
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crayon said:
And also, four reliable men must testify that they witnessed the act and actually saw the male sexual organ inserted into the vagina.
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Do you have a citation from the Quran or hadith that requires this level of witnessing of the crime?

This would make adultery unpunishable. Why would God give you a law that could never be enforced?

Are you saying all people executed by shariah courts for adultery were done so unjustly—since it's basically physically impossible for four men (or eight women) to all see a penis being inserted into a vagina?
 
That's exactly it though, Qingu. It was meant to be extremely difficult to prove to make it almost impossible to prove, to really limit the amount of people punished. Basically, it's there so that people who are about to commit adultery think twice before doing it.

*The "four witness" standard comes from the Qur'an itself, a revelation Muhammad announced in response to accusations of adultery leveled at his wife, Aisha: "Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they produce not witnesses, they verily are liars in the sight of Allah."*
That's from wikipedia.

Also, this law would be enforced if the adulterer confessed, obviously.

If there were 4 witnesses, then no it wasn't unjustly. If there weren't, which there probably weren't, because like you said, it's virtually impossible to have 4 witnesses for an act like this, unless they're like in the middle of the street or something, then yes, the shariah court ruled unjustly.

That's what is meant by muslims when we say that the sharia is not properly implemented in any country in the present day.
 
Knock knock.

-Who's there?

Off.

-Off who?

Off topic. There's plenty of other threads about certain of these issues. And if not, make one.

-Your knock knock jokes suck, man.
 
May Allah forgive her for her sins, ameen

May Allah make it easy on the family. ameen

I don't know the full story, but he shouldn't have killed his daughter. He gets some of the blame for sticking her in such an environment to start with (school). If friends had such an effect on her, he should have placed her on home studies, or perhaps moved her to a better school.

I hate the concept of "honor killings". Exactly whose honor are you protecting?? Your family, tribe's??

They sure aren't "protecting" Islam's honor....

Wa'alaykum Asalaam
 
Talha777 said:
I think he was intended on giving her a really good beating. He may have used a knife for this reason, and due to his understandable anger wanted to just about kill her, but I don't think what ended up happening as unfortunate as it was was his actual intention. I think he should not be given a life sentence and the court should take into account his intention and the fact any muslim parent would be outraged if their daughter was acting like this girl aqsa parvez.
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If his daughter was sexually active, hooked on drugs, and drinking, that still doesnt give him the right to do anything like giving her a beating!

What kind of an outrageous comment is that????????????????? :X:X:X
 
NYCmuslim said:
First of all, can anyone show me that the Quran says its ok to beat your wife? I do not recall reading such absurdity.
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Here ya' go.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
 
Ah yes, I have come across this one and I will tell you that these are incorrectly translated.

The arabic word "adribhu" used here was translated as "to beat" or "to strike". This word comes from the root word "dharab" (dad-ra-ba), which has many different meanings, which includes "to separate" or "leave".

Using this word in accordance to the context of the Quran, the husband is told to first talk with his wife about the marraige problem, then to leave her in the bed (forbid sexual relations with her). If all else fails then the husband should split with his wife and separate from her. Not necessarily divorce her in order to leave the chance of reconciliation ("if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance)".

Knowing the true message of the Quran this seems to be the most sensible interpretation to me.

And Allah knows best

Peace
 
wilberhum said:
NYCmuslim

What if it is the husband that has been disobedient?
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The wife can do the same thing. The woman can even divorce the husband if she wants:

If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves [4:128]
 
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