First Corrupted Verse

['Abd-al Latif]

Shoes, these are my alleged corrupted verses. I will start one by one to avoid confusion. So here is the first verse:

"The sun was rising as Lot reached the village. Then the Lord rained down fire and burning sulfur from the heavens on Sodom and Gomorrah. He utterly destroyed them, along with the other cities and villages of the plain, eliminating all life—people, plants, and animals alike . . . Afterward Lot left Zoar because he was afraid of the people there, and he went to live in a cave in the mountains with his two daughters.
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"One day the older daughter said to her sister, "There isn't a man anywhere in this entire area for us to marry. And our father will soon be too old to have children. Come, let’s get him drunk with wine, and then we will sleep with him. That way we will preserve our family line through our father." So that night they got him drunk, and the older daughter went in and slept with her father. He was unaware of her lying down or getting up again.
"The next morning the older daughter said to her younger sister, "I slept with our father last night. Let’s get him drunk with wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him. That way our family line will be preserved." So that night they got him drunk again, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. As before, he was unaware of her lying down or getting up again. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father." (Genesis 19:23-25, 30-36 , NLT)

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From these verses it's clear that the daughters slept with their own father. Can a man who god Himself, specifically and deliberately chose as a Prophet to guide mankind out of the darkness into the light, allow the daughters to do such a sick a perverted act? And God allowed a Prophet to get drunk, twice? Any human being who does this act today can be taken to course but in the bible it's a religous fact.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

I understand that the thread was asking for the first verses corrupted in the Holy Bible.

Are you asking when? I tried to point that out on another thread and it was closed.

LOL!! I imagine every Bible verse that does not agree with the quran is considered corrupt by muslims. There are quite a few.

Well...perhaps to an extent, yes.

LOL! We Christians just don't get it- GOD only spared the quran from corruption!!

Congrats, you finally got the point.

Sorry to repeat myself but, the problem I see is that -your quran confirms the Gospel -if the Gospel is corrupt then the quran is a lie.

Why don't muslims see this as a problem? Please help me understand!

I may be leaving soon- just got my final warning.

Yes of course, Qur'an confirms the gospel. Do you see any muslims or even Islam itself denying that? It's an integeral pillar of faith to believe in it...but not as the last testament of God nor as guidance for mankind. Let me ask you this: If someone claims that the Torah wasn't corrupted, why did god reveal the Gospel? Simple. Because what happened to the Torah happened the Gospel, but will not happen to the Qur'an. 1400 years, same ol' text, same ol' arabic. What Prophet Muhammad (saaws) recited with his own blessed mouth sits in the rooms and mosques of the Muslims over the world.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yes of course, Qur'an confirms the gospel. Do you see any muslims or even Islam itself denying that? It's an integeral pillar of faith to believe in it...but not as the last testimate of God nor as guidance for mankind. Let me ask you this: If someone claims that the Torah wasn't corrupted, why did god reveal the Gosple? Simple. Because what happened to the Torah happened the Gospel, but will not happen to the Qur'an. 1400 years, same ol' text, same ol' arabic. What Prophet Muhammad (saaws) recited with his own blessed mouth sitting in the living rooms of the Muslims over the world.

This is a tangent from this thread, so I'll not pursue it beyond this post. But your statement that what happened to the Torah vis-a-vis the Gospel is what happend to the Gospel vis-a-vis the Qur'an shows just how different Muslims think about the purpose of scripture than do Christians. If I understand Islam correctly, the Qur'an supercedes the Gospel -- not just the corrupt Christain gospel, but even the original uncorrupt Injil of Isa. But that is not how Christians view the relationship between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

^

I wasn't trying to start a debate over it. And yes you've understood it correctly. But this discussion can be started in another thread. I do not wish to disrupt the thread with outside issues from the original topic.

 

[Follower]

Was Lot a prophet? What message did Lot leave?

Prophets are mere men so in fact can sin. Did Lot allow it to happen or was he a victim? He did get drunk. Bible histories show us that evil is a every turn- even in your own family.

 

[Follower]

Are muslims saying that allah is only capable of saving one book from corruption?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Are muslims saying that allah is only capable of saving one book from corruption?

Were the other books promised to be saved from corruption like the Qur'an was promised?

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). [Quran 15:9]

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Was Lot a prophet? What message did Lot leave?

Prophets are mere men so in fact can sin. Did Lot allow it to happen or was he a victim? He did get drunk. Bible histories show us that evil is a every turn- even in your own family.

Yes Lot was a Prophet. He left the same Message that was given to Adam all the up to Muhammad: Worship your One True Lord and avoid all false deities.

Here's a parable: You elect Presidents because you feel so-and-so person is the most fit who will make the least mistakes concerning the affairs of his entire nation. So what about god who specifically hand picks and choses these people to correct the worldly and religious affairs of the whole of mankind, you're telling me God makes them make mistakes in religion and otherwise? What asurity does this leave in the mind of a servant of god that god will take care of him?

Is god doubtful that His specifically chosen Prophet will be unable to carry out His message, why doesn't he chose someone who will be the perfect example in his private life as well as his public life? Is he incapable of sending a dignified man who excels greatly in dignity and honour?

Indeed He is, and all the Prophets and Messengers of god were the most dignified and honourable of people. This is the corruption I see in the bible.

 

[Azy]

Were the other books promised to be saved from corruption like the Qur'an was promised?

If the books have been corrupted how will we ever know?

 

[Zafran]

If the books have been corrupted how will we ever know?

Preety simple - like the Torah - its was traditionally meant to be given to Moses pbuh - But in deutoronmy we find that Moses pbuh is Buried in a unmarked grave!

 

[Basit]

Assalam Alaykum brothers and sisters in Islam,

im new here on this thread. im also a new muslim, i turned-back to islam just last november. please dont be confused with the word turned-back, filipinos are called turned back to islam when they convert because we believe the religion of our ancestors is islam.

i have one question, please dont angry with me, Why was the injeel or bible of christians corrupted or it was no longer the original injeel? why was the content changed as some books says the christian bible is no longer the exact content it has before. because there are discrepancies in what is written in the christian bible and the qur'an. for example the crucifixion of jesus(as) in the christian bible, it says there that he was crucified, died, buried and then rose up on the third day. which is why the christians are kneeling for the cross in their sallah (may allah(swt) forgive me for doing that for more than 20 years).while in the holy qur'an it didnt say that jesus(as) was crucified, rather he is lifted by allah(swt) in the heavens before the romans could have got him.

 

[Azy]

Preety simple - like the Torah - its was traditionally meant to be given to Moses pbuh - But in deutoronmy we find that Moses pbuh is Buried in a unmarked grave!

I wasn't really talking about corruption in general, just the specific point that 'Abd-al Latif raised.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

If the books have been corrupted how will we ever know?

Are you talking about my earlier post about Prophet Lot?

If it is then the ones who bring the message of god to humanity are the Prophets and Messengers. If there is any claim against them which, at the very least, goes against moral and ethical behaviour then this is corruption in the information that has been convayed to us, because no such thing can ever be proved against them as they are the best of mankind.

If such a thing is considered a religious fact then this is corruption in the message and this would point to one obvious conclusion: the message was edited/altered to suit the needs of men for worldly purposes.

 

[Follower]

Where is Lot's message written and preserved?

Zaphran but the Torah is also confirmed in the quran or is there a different Torah too?!
Should the person writing that last bit of information about Moses take the credit for writing that whole thing and take it away from Moses?


014.004
YUSUFALI: We sent not a messenger except in the language of his people, in order to make clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

Are muslims saying that by allah allowing the Gospel to be corrupted, allah is allowing those whom he wants to to be mislead?

005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are those who rebel.

In fact encouraging us to judge by the Gospel so that we will be mislead?

 

[TestData]

Hello everyone I've put this thread into Clarifications as I don't want it to be a debate - more a discussion on everyone's opinions.

So my questions are:

• What is the first corrupted verse in the Bible?
• How does it contradict Islamic teaching? (If it does.)

And more general questions to consider as we go along: What is a corruption of a text? And how can we tell which verses are/aren't corrupted?

To reiterate: this isn't a debate!

OK, fire away!

Salam,
Shoes

Hi,

My second attempt at replying, this is just my own opinion, but to answer your main question:

[*]What is the first corrupted verse in the Bible?

If you open the Bible/Injeel given to Jesus(pbuh) and then open the Bible in your possession and compare the two, you will easily find your answer.

 

[جوري]

Where is Lot's message written and preserved?

Zaphran but the Torah is also confirmed in the quran or is there a different Torah too?!
Should the person writing that last bit of information about Moses take the credit for writing that whole thing and take it away from Moses?


014.004
YUSUFALI: We sent not a messenger except in the language of his people, in order to make clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

Are muslims saying that by allah allowing the Gospel to be corrupted, allah is allowing those whom he wants to to be mislead?

005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are those who rebel.

In fact encouraging us to judge by the Gospel so that we will be mislead?

I am not sure why you are quoting passages from the Quran, firstly you don't believe in the book, and secondly, surely you must know that there is a tafsir that accompanies it and that takes scholarship not frank stupidity and whim, and thirdly, you should also take it as a package deal..

you should read such verses as:


From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the Message that was sent them: so We estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.(5:14)


or


(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men, of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)."(5:18)


or


The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Al-Masih the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!(9:30)


or


The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon"; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (to stand) upon." Yet they (profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.(2:113)


______________


fellow, I suggest you not quote the Quran, since you have no knowledge of it, or what is therein.. just go on worshiping a man read some lies and disseminate them to like minded individuals, away from us!

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Where is Lot's message written and preserved?

Zaphran but the Torah is also confirmed in the quran or is there a different Torah too?!
Should the person writing that last bit of information about Moses take the credit for writing that whole thing and take it away from Moses?


014.004
YUSUFALI: We sent not a messenger except in the language of his people, in order to make clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

Are muslims saying that by allah allowing the Gospel to be corrupted, allah is allowing those whom he wants to to be mislead?

005.047
YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are those who rebel.

In fact encouraging us to judge by the Gospel so that we will be mislead?

The message of Lot is preserved at least in the Qur'an though I am sure there are references of him in the bible as well. Look up the story of Lot in the Book of Genesis mentioned in chapters 11-14 and 19. I think there are probably more references of him then that thought I am not sure.

You can find out what the Qur'an had to say about him here: http://www.islamicboard.com/prophets-islam/1701-prophet-lut-lot.html

 

[rpwelton]

If the books have been corrupted how will we ever know?

An atheist won't understand this, but basically it's because if Allah promised to preserve the other texts, then He didn't fulfill His promise (a'udhubillah) because they show evident corruption.

And since God is perfect and never breaks a promise, He could never have made one in the first place about preserving the other scriptures.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Hi,

My second attempt at replying, this is just my own opinion, but to answer your main question:

[*]What is the first corrupted verse in the Bible?

If you open the Bible/Injeel given to Jesus(pbuh) and then open the Bible in your possession and compare the two, you will easily find your answer.

I didn't know that Muslims believed anyone actually possessed a copy of the Bible/Injeel given to Jesus to open. Where might I find one to make this comparison you suggest?

 

[Follower]

Abd-al Latif- but you as a muslim believe the Holy Bible to be corrupt- so why would you suggest that one look to the Holy Bible for the story- it is different I am sure then the one in the quran.

Gossamer skye-
The problem with the verse here:

005.014
YUSUFALI: From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

Christians are at peace with one another- there is no enmity to judgement day. This is saying nothing about written scripture.

There is also a problem with this verse:

002.113
YUSUFALI: The Jews say: "The Christians have naught upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught upon." Yet they study the Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.

When did Jews ever study the Gospel?