For Muslims: Our attitudes towards Kuffars

SixTen said:
Although, aamirsaab has shown somewhat admirable tolerance, his network analogy is probably not representative of Islam. Allah, according to the Qur'an, does not accept any religion other than Islam - he has made Islam your religion to follow. So, I can't say you can call it a connection with Allah - if you follow say Hinduism. Yes, you will be making some sort of mental connection, but Islamically, it is seen as void, null, you would be worshipping a false God. Today, it is actually a common progressionists viewpoint, that their are X religions, all leading to the same path, but fundamentally, this is deviated to the teachings of Islam.

Also, IbnAbdulHakim has made a very good point, no one can blame another person for his disbelief - I do understand your point Woodrow, that muslims should draw people onto Islam by their actions, but even if you don't, do good deeds etc, its not a reason for people to disbelief the message - as your example is not editing the message.
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Point accepted and well put though I just want to clarify one thing. Islam is NOT a religion, Its a way of life, Its a system, Its a law, its Submission to the one and only creator who created all we see, hear and touch. Its simple. submit to your creator and give thanks to him and he will open his mercy to you. Simple as that!!! You will know a man made law from a Divine law, Truth always crushes falsehood. Every other law can be quite clear cause it would have many contradictions. The Quran due to being the Word of Allah SWT has NO contradictions.

Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions. (An-Nisa 4:82)
 
Greetings and peace be with you all,

I am sure that both aamirsaab and Woodrow have a sincere belief that Islam is the only one and true way to Allah. They show this by striving to be tolerant towards others, and striving to change themselves, I see this in a positive light and it brings credit to their faith.

These are qualities that would draw me towards Muslims and Islam if I was searching for a faith.

In the spirit of praying to one God for a greater interfaith friendship.

Eric
 
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Woah, I didn't know my posts could do that much!

Ok I did actually clarify the initial post regarding networks (after being asked to flesh it out by Grace seeker) in which I stated (and I'm paraphrasing here) I believe Islam is the best way to connect with Allah but others do not since they don't see it the same way as I do (and so use a different religion or w/e). Please refer to my second post on this thread for the full thing

In any event, the point I was making was God hears ALL and ALL can feel God - regardless of the religion one follows. Yes I believe Islam is the best way but others do not and so take another route - yet evidence (from what I have read and heard) indicates they still have some sort of connection with God (otherwise, they wouldn't be practicing their religion - as a psychologist I know that if we get positive feedback for doing somethng, we will repeat that action). From the theists I have spoken with and from what I have read, they clearly get some FEEDBACK from Allah [though as a muslim I believe this is Allah saying to them: dudes, you're doing a good act but you're on the wrong train!]

So er, I think that is as crystal clear as I can be on the matter. (5 posts on this thread!)

p.s; Please don't hurt me, I'm pakistani!
P.p.s; If I have said anything wrong or lead anyone astray, then may Allah forgive me.
 
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coddles76 said:
Point accepted and well put though I just want to clarify one thing. Islam is NOT a religion, Its a way of life, Its a system, Its a law, its Submission to the one and only creator who created all we see, hear and touch. Its simple. submit to your creator and give thanks to him and he will open his mercy to you. Simple as that!!! You will know a man made law from a Divine law, Truth always crushes falsehood. Every other law can be quite clear cause it would have many contradictions. The Quran due to being the Word of Allah SWT has NO contradictions.

Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions. (An-Nisa 4:82)
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What is wrong with calling Islam a religion? A religion can be a way of life too.

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." - Qur'an (Surah Maida)

Woah, I didn't know my posts could do that much!

Ok I did actually clarify the initial post regarding networks (after being asked to flesh it out by Grace seeker) in which I stated (and I'm paraphrasing here) I believe Islam is the best way to connect with Allah but others do not since they don't see it the same way as I do (and so use a different religion or w/e). Please refer to my second post on this thread for the full thing

In any event, the point I was making was God hears ALL and ALL can feel God - regardless of the religion one follows. Yes I believe Islam is the best way but others do not and so take another route - yet evidence (from what I have read and heard) indicates they still have some sort of connection with God (otherwise, they wouldn't be practicing their religion - as a psychologist I know that if we get positive feedback for doing somethng, we will repeat that action). From the theists I have spoken with and from what I have read, they clearly get some FEEDBACK from Allah [though as a muslim I believe this is Allah saying to them: dudes, you're doing a good act but you're on the wrong train!]

So er, I think that is as crystal clear as I can be on the matter. (5 posts on this thread!)

p.s; Please don't hurt me, I'm pakistani!
P.p.s; If I have said anything wrong or lead anyone astray, then may Allah forgive me.
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Don't sweat it, no ones attacking you :). Though, I will have to criticise you again. You can't use the arguement, that because they practice the religion, they must have some connection with God. It is fallacious to assume, that idol worship - which people practice and enjoy and feel good about doing - will get Allah's blessings and make them feel good for doing it and hence encourage them to do it.

Islams viewpoint is simple - pleasure from other religions - is the pleasure that you gain from fullfilling your own desires. Not from, obeying Allah. This has to be clear, we can't say, Islam is the best way to communicate with God, you'd have to say islam is the only ACCEPTABLE method.

Anyway, this is derailing a bit, but to be short - Another religion is not any way, a path to connect with God. Also, I never stated God does not communicate with others - be it hindu's etc - as he shows signs to people all their lives. I was talking about, Islam's stance on the practice of other religions. Your post, had quite an effect on some people, you presented it as Islam being tolerant of you practicing other religions - which isn't the case at all (im sure you didn't mean it, but the post seemed to give that effect to some, hence I posted to make a correction).
 
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SixTen said:
What is wrong with calling Islam a religion? A religion can be a way of life too.

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." - Qur'an (Surah Maida)
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Well the actual Arabic word used in the Qur'an is 'deen' and here is the wiki article on the word deen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_(Arabic_term)
 
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AntiKarateKid said:
Hey guys, recently I was wondering about this and am looking for your opinions ( or references from the Quran). Let me start, when I see.. lets say a Hindu who says they feel one with God. I am absolutely unsure about what to think here. Allah has specifically forbidden paganism and yet here who is claiming to have a strong connection with him. I often regard these people with a mix of amusement and annoyance. They sit down with lies and smile at us and say " to each his own religion". I wondered if they would really tell Allah... " O I thought I could choose whichever I wanted as long as I felt that "connection".

What am I supposed to think about Jews, Christians, Hindus etc who claim that they have a bond with Allah when their very beliefs and ways of life contradict his prescribed ones?
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They don't see their beliefs and practices as contradictory to God's prescribed ones. You may believe that God has forbidden polytheism and paganism, but not everyone agrees with that. When that Hindu talked to you about being one with God he wasn't lying; at the very most you could say that he was mistaken, but you can't accuse him of dishonesty. He probably really did feel some sort of connection with what he perceived as God, even if their actually wasn't one.
 
Aurora said:
They don't see their beliefs and practices as contradictory to God's prescribed ones. You may believe that God has forbidden polytheism and paganism, but not everyone agrees with that. When that Hindu talked to you about being one with God he wasn't lying; at the very most you could say that he was mistaken, but you can't accuse him of dishonesty. He probably really did feel some sort of connection with what he perceived as God, even if their actually wasn't one.
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I should note, people have different criterias to which results in polytheisms. For example, hindu's would claim they are monotheists, as would christians, but it is actually not seen as that from say, islam.
 
Aurora said:
They don't see their beliefs and practices as contradictory to God's prescribed ones. You may believe that God has forbidden polytheism and paganism, but not everyone agrees with that. When that Hindu talked to you about being one with God he wasn't lying; at the very most you could say that he was mistaken, but you can't accuse him of dishonesty. He probably really did feel some sort of connection with what he perceived as God, even if their actually wasn't one.
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People can be wrong. I may feel that something is right one day then totally change my mind the next. A "feeling" cannot be used to justify ones religion unless one admits that belief should be based on whatever whims you have at that moment in time.

I " feel" a connection to Ganish one day then all of a sudden to Buddha another day. Faith is more than a fuzzy feeling.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
People can be wrong. I may feel that something is right one day then totally change my mind the next. A "feeling" cannot be used to justify ones religion unless one admits that belief should be based on whatever whims you have at that moment in time.

I " feel" a connection to Ganish one day then all of a sudden to Buddha another day. Faith is more than a fuzzy feeling.
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Why do you believe Islam is the truth?
 
Osman said:
Hi SixTen,



So do you think the English word religion captures the full meaning of the Arabic word deen?

Regards
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I don't see the word religion to be offensive or wrong. Anyway, it is clear, what the context is, when stating religion regarding Islam - especially its fundamental principle, being set of practices centred around God.
 
Osman said:
Greetings Pygoscelis,



Why are you anti-religious? Instead, shouldn't you be anti-people-who-claim-to-follow-the-teachings-of-their-religion-but-in-actual-fact-don't? :D
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When you don't believe in the God in question, that leaves the people who identify as being the religion to represent the religion as it currently exists.

I highly recommend Karen Armstrong's "History of God" which traces the very wide variety of Islams, Christianities, and Judaisms that have existed in the past couple of thousand years.

As a believer you may claim that your God gives you the correct understanding of your religion and therefore there is an independent (and only one proper) meaning of your religion, but to a non believer the belief of the believers IS the religion (as there is nothing else to point to).
 
barney said:
I thought It was the Prophets uncle, who explained to Mohammed that the "visitation" in the cave was Gabrial?
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If I'm not mistaken Muhammad's uncles ie. Abu Lahab, abu Jahal and Abu Talib refused to be Muslims.

The one that told Muhammad about Gabriel was Waraqa Ibnu Naufal, which is Khadija's (Muhammad's wife) uncle.

Some scholars mentioned that Waraqa is a Hebrew...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazoraioi
 
Waraqa bin Naufal was a Christian hermit or monk, and he was the uncle of Khadijah (radhi Allahu anha). When Nabi (alaihi salatu wa salam) began to receive his revelations, Waraqa bin Naufal confessed that the same angel which used to visit sayidina Musa (alaihi salam) is now visiting him.
 
SixTen said:
I don't see the word religion to be offensive or wrong. Anyway, it is clear, what the context is, when stating religion regarding Islam - especially its fundamental principle, being set of practices centred around God.
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Yeah, absolutely. I won't be so naive as to claim that Islam is not a religion. On the contrary, I would claim that Islam is a religion and more.
 
Osman said:
Yeah, absolutely. I won't be so naive as to claim that Islam is not a religion. On the contrary, I would claim that Islam is a religion and more.
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A way of life :). A purpose. And constant inner peace :)
 
Greetings,

Pygoscelis said:
When you don't believe in the God in question, that leaves the people who identify as being the religion to represent the religion as it currently exists.

I highly recommend Karen Armstrong's "History of God" which traces the very wide variety of Islams, Christianities, and Judaisms that have existed in the past couple of thousand years.

As a believer you may claim that your God gives you the correct understanding of your religion and therefore there is an independent (and only one proper) meaning of your religion, but to a non believer the belief of the believers IS the religion (as there is nothing else to point to).
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I understand everything that you're saying, but there is also the religious texts to turn to. When a so-called beliver's beliefs is rooted in their religious text, that is how you know that they have the correct understanding. Now, of course, there is the matter of interpretation but as Muslims we have a simple answer to this. We must understand the religion in light of how it was practised by Prophet Muhammad (May Allah's peace and blessings be upon him). Furthermore, if one don't even understand the language it wa revealed in, then one shouldn't waste their time trying to interpret the Qur'an. The fact that there are so many translations and many of them differ significantly is evidence of this. There is just one Islam and the greatest scholars in history had minor differences of opinion over minor issues. In modern times you will find some Muslims supporting terrorism for example and attempting to support it with injunctions from the Qur'an. That isn't another Islam, that is an error on their part and an error that it doesn't take a genious to realise is false.

Regards
 
RoseGold said:
Osman said:
Yeah, absolutely. I won't be so naive as to claim that Islam is not a religion. On the contrary, I would claim that Islam is a religion and more.
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A way of life :). A purpose. And constant inner peace :)
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Indeed! Let's remember that Islam even encompasses it's own legal system and governs every aspect of a Muslim's life from which side of the bed to sleep on to what to use to brush one's teeth. Everything!
 

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