If Jesus Was God Then...

  • Thread starter Thread starter sonz
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 237
  • Views Views 28K
blackjubba said:
That is why Christianity today is becoming more tolerant of things that are evil and abhorant to God, such as same sex relationships, illegitimate children, gambling, women preachers and so forth! Again, not all Christians, but Christianity in general.
Click to expand...


I couldn't agree with you more..Jesus tells us many will be lead astray from the truth and Satan as certainly lead these people astray.

This is why we must always test the spirits to make sure they are from God and not Satan...Jesus makes it quite plain how to do this and it looks like these people have been fooled!
 
Al-Qu'ran
Surah 39 Ayat 7

If you disbelieve, then verily, Allah is not in need of you; He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you what you used to do. Verily, He is the All-Knower of that which is in (men's) breast.

Also, in the Bible, it clearly states in Revelations that - "....Each man will be judged according to his works." It is the same concept as Islam.You will not be judged or pre-judged based on your belief in a savior. You will, however, be judged on whether or not you listened to your messenger and obeyed what he told you. For Christians, that would be Jesus (Isa) who clearly told you, "Worship God, my Lord and your Lord!" If God is the Lord of Jesus, then why do you worship him? Think hard about this one!
 
blackjubba said:
Al-Qu'ran
Surah 39 Ayat 7

If you disbelieve, then verily, Allah is not in need of you; He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you what you used to do. Verily, He is the All-Knower of that which is in (men's) breast.

Also, in the Bible, it clearly states in Revelations that - "....Each man will be judged according to his works." It is the same concept as Islam.You will not be judged or pre-judged based on your belief in a savior. You will, however, be judged on whether or not you listened to your messenger and obeyed what he told you. For Christians, that would be Jesus (Isa) who clearly told you, "Worship God, my Lord and your Lord!" If God is the Lord of Jesus, then why do you worship him? Think hard about this one!
Click to expand...

:) mashaallah
 
What you claim here was your own conjecture. You have no means to prove God ever meant the death of Jesus as your final atonement for sin.
Click to expand...

Not mine alone...millions and millions more people throughtout time also know this.

People who went before Jesus, they sacrificed animals as an act of obedience.
Click to expand...

It was not an act of obendience...but was atonement for their sins...
God tells us in

Leviticus 17:11;

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life..
Click to expand...

An exchange took place when the animal’s innocent life was transferred to the people, and the people’s impure lives were transferred to the animal. This is known as the “exchanged life” principle. This was necessary because of God’s justice and sense of righteousness.

This same principle is used with Jesus' blood.

Principles of law that God usues are so very different than the laws we have on earth...Man could never understand the workings of these laws.


Why bother telling people to ask Him for forgiveness?
Click to expand...

Exactly...there is no point, without blood for God...with Jesus...He paid the price with his blood for who ever will except his offering to God and who do will be saved from Gods wrath on Judgement day.

It isn't man-kinds (Christians) idea but Gods alone that blood should pay the price of our sins in the OT and NT.

Do you understand about the Holy of Holies what it's reason was for etc?

Hebrews 13:11

For the bodies of those animals of which the blood is carried by the High Priest into the Holy place as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp.
Click to expand...

Only the High Priest one person could go inside.....to be in the presence of God..God is so pure so Holy he cannot come into contact with humans unless they are sinless animal scarfices on the OT and now Jesus was a way in which we can have fellowship with God.

In Chrisitinty now...God no longer requires blood...the blood of Jesus covers us and makes us sinless in the presence of our Father..


You can learn better by researching on that subject. Other Muslim brothers & sisters can perhaps explain better than I do. Or look up the Quran and read more about what it says about Abraham (Nabi Ibrahim 'alayhi salaam).
Click to expand...

thanks I will do that.. :)
 
Nicola said:
Christians do not need the laws to be written down for them, to understand how God wants us to live. The Jews had that from God and it didn't work...Our heavenly Father places the laws in our hearts to overcome this world.
Click to expand...
Could you elaborate on this please?
 
Cheb said:
Could you elaborate on this please?
Click to expand...

I will try.

God gave the Jews all kinds of different laws these where written down so they would abide by them...
Our (Chrisitians) two laws are these


Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Living by these two laws alone is all that is needed..along with the Holy Spirit indewlling in us...It is then impossible not to live the way God intented us to live....
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace Architect;


I did not notice this comment you made earlier and think it is sad that you should need to make such a comment which some people could take as inflammatory.

In another thread were Muslims were saying similar things about Christianity Muhammad graciously edited them out.

We are guests on this forum and as such I feel there is the need to honour our hosts beliefs and faith.

In the spirit of growing together in faith

Eric
Click to expand...

I think that was incredibly courteous:sister:.
Thank you.
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace Mu'MiNaH;

Greetings and Peace Eric:).


[QUOTE;208623]i am talking personally here but I don’t think that Jesus’ life and death was for the benefit of God it was more for my benefit, I have a greater belief that my sins can be forgiven because Christ was prepared to do something.

In a way it might be like me saying to you. I will give you a million dollars next year.
Your reply would be ‘Yeah right you expect me to believe that.

But if you knew that I had already given your friend a million, you might just believe me.

The talk is easy, if God said your sins are forgiven, there is life after death and he didn’t do anything to show me then I probably would not believe.
Click to expand...

Actually I do believe so, and no sacrifice was needed for that. I read the Qur'an, read about Islam, and realised what a beautiful faith I had. I was just Muslim by name before. I cried for my sins and asked God to forgive me, I repented as sincerely as I was able to. Allah knows best if it was accepted, but I have been able to move on with my life as a real Muslim whilst remembering that Allah is Al Ghafour (The Oft-Forgiving), Ar-Rahman (Most Merciful). I don't need someone else to suffer, and I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to do it, and would be incredibly hurt and guilty if that's what needed to be done in order for me to be forgiven. I'm not saying that christians believe God benfitted from it, but i'm saying can't God forgive without Jesus (as) an innocent man having to suffer? I certainly believe He is capable of that. That is easy for Him.

[QUOTE;208623]Each of us needs some kind of proof from God that seems believable, and the life of Jesus is my inspiration, in the same kind of way that the life of the Prophet pbuh. inspires you.


It seems in man’s nature that we commit evil; only God can put a stop to evil.

In the spirit of searching together

Eric[/QUOTE]

Yes the life of both Prophet Jesus (as) and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) inspire me greatly. My proof from God and His miracle is the Qur'an, however. No Muslim would expect Allah to sacrifice our beloved Nabi (saw) in order to forgive my sins. That seems very cruel to me. You believe God is Merciful, but you ascribe something cruel to Him. Why? This actually makes me very sad.
Looking forward to your reply.

-Peace
 
Greetings and peace Nicola;

God gave the Jews all kinds of different laws these where written down so they would abide by them...
Our (Chrisitians) two laws are these


Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Living by these two laws alone is all that is needed..along with the Holy Spirit indewlling in us...It is then impossible not to live the way God intented us to live
Click to expand...

To me the two greatest commandments seem the most profound words ever written, they seem to have power beyond our understanding.

To me the single most profound word ever written in context is the word ‘hang’
It is trying to understand what all the law and the prophets are and how do they depend and hang on the greatest commandments.

Just maybe; they belonged to God before they were given to man and could they be written in the following way?

The Father loves all that he is and all that he does with all his heart, soul, mind and strength?

The Father loves Christ as he loves himself?
.
Christ loves the father as he loves himself?

God the Father loves each one of us as he loves himself?

To test the power of these words simply ask these questions.

If the Fathers love for himself is perfect and complete, how can he then love Christ MORE than he loves himself?

Could the Father love each one of us more than he loves himself?

Could the spirit be the power that comes from perfect love?

In the spirit of searching for the greatest

Eric
 
Greetings and peace Mu'MiNaH~;
No Muslim would expect Allah to sacrifice our beloved Nabi (saw) in order to forgive my sins. That seems very cruel to me. You believe God is Merciful, but you ascribe something cruel to Him. Why? This actually makes me very sad.
Looking forward to your reply.
Click to expand...
Jesus taught us to pray to our Father who art in heaven, and there are many passages in the Bible that refer to God having Father relations with mankind.

Maybe in our limited way we can look at the role of a human father and what he might be prepared to do for the children he loved. On occasions we hear about a father who died whilst saving his child from a burning building, on occasions we hear about a remarkable person who dies whilst saving a total stranger from some peril.

That child might grow up feeling guilty that their father died so they might live, but I would look on it in another way.

Maybe the child would look and see that he was saved at a great cost, and maybe because he had been given such a huge gift of life that he should also go out and help others and give something back to the memory of a loving father.

This is how I look on Jesus as my saviour, he has given me a great gift in life and there is the need for me to try and do something in return.

It is very difficult when you look at another persons faith, and you try and find out how they are inspired to do something.

In the spirit of searching for a greater understanding between faiths

Eric
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace Mu'MiNaH~;

1 Jesus taught us to pray to our Father who art in heaven, and there are many passages in the Bible that refer to God having Father relations with mankind.

2 Maybe in our limited way we can look at the role of a human father and what he might be prepared to do for the children he loved. On occasions we hear about a father who died whilst saving his child from a burning building, on occasions we hear about a remarkable person who dies whilst saving a total stranger from some peril.

3 That child might grow up feeling guilty that their father died so they might live, but I would look on it in another way.

4 Maybe the child would look and see that he was saved at a great cost, and maybe because he had been given such a huge gift of life that he should also go out and help others and give something back to the memory of a loving father.

5 This is how I look on Jesus as my saviour, he has given me a great gift in life and there is the need for me to try and do something in return.

6 It is very difficult when you look at another persons faith, and you try and find out how they are inspired to do something.

In the spirit of searching for a greater understanding between faiths

Eric
Click to expand...
i numbered your quote to help me...

1- this is correct, i just wanted to say father doesnt mean he begot us...but rather a provider aand such, which you know already


2- yea we hear things like this, but it doesnt justify anything..

3-maybe

4-saved from what?? and going out and helping others is a must...and about gift of life, this great gift can leave you at any moment when you least expect it!!! so obviously it has a purpose..

5-yea do what he told you, to worship GOD alone!! but people now take a partner in worship with GOD and that is Jesus!!!hes not to be worshiped!!

6-its not difficult really,


peace eric
 
Eric, my brother in Humanity, you haven't addressed my question as to why God needed Jesus to die in order to forgive mankind's sins. I am aware that you are grateful for what Jesus apparently did for you.
-Peace
 
No it isn't. Isn't it simpler to believe that God can forgive at will, and doesn't need to torture and sacrafice innocents to forgive humanity?
Click to expand...

Yes I expect it does seem more simple. But why did God always require a blood sacrifice?..Throughout the Old Testement it is Gods commandment that He requires blood for the sins of his people...we can see this clearly...for instance in


Leviticus Chapter 4


3 if the anointed priest shall sin so as to bring guilt on the people, then let him offer for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin-offering.

8 And all the fat of the bullock of the sin-offering he shall take off from it; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards.

14 when the sin wherein they have sinned is known, then the assembly shall offer a young bullock for a sin-offering, and bring it before the tent of meeting.


There is to much evidence in the OT for the sacrifice of unblemished animals for the atonement of sin. To simple deny it..and we know God never changes.



http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0304.htm


God still requires blood..and that blood comes from Jesus Christ of saviour..so we Christians believe in the blood of Christ for atonement of our sins we commit against God..
Jesus' blood is so powerful.
 
its funny how christians beleive in the old testiment(which is the torah)..

and not the QURAN, whichs is all evidences
 
actually, they look to the new testament more. For example, the old testament says you can't eat pork, but christians still do this.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top