Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Enemy of Islam?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Allah also set rules to say that you do not force anyone into belief. Forced belief will be false and pretence, now does the idea of THAT not sicken YOU?

Of course you cant force, but u dont completely ban it so people cant do any of it PERIOD.

 

[Deja_Vu]

Why is that not his fault?

Because Tayyaba, if you are a true muslim, it doesn't matter who sets what rules, you will still keep your faith.

 

[Deja_Vu]

Of course you cant force, but u dont completely ban it so people cant do any of it PERIOD.

He didn't ban it.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Of course people kept their faith, but your stopping them from doing half it or even the Sunnah for some things. He changed the Adhaan from Arabic, denied Muslim women to wear the hijab. We all know the hijab is an essential part of a Muslim women, what makes her stand out, so why deny that? Thats my whole point of saying, why it is not his fault?
Actually, i wont even say whats is fault and whats not, but seeing as some of the things he's done, then i could say it.

 

[Skillganon]

Allah also set rules to say that you do not force anyone into belief. Forced belief will be false and pretence, now does the idea of THAT not sicken YOU?

Sis, I think you are missing the point. Replacing Allah's rule with a man-made rule. Well you can see what Islam all the scholars of Islam say's concerning that.
I think it is best for us to study and learn about Islam correctly adn live by this in practically first.

The main point is to learn from history. Atuturk is history, stop living in the pass. If you wanna have love for that man go ahead but rest of the muslim ummah does not. He is a no body to us.

I do not mean to offend our turkish brother's but that is the truth.

 

[Deja_Vu]

That's what I'm saying, he didn't deny anyone of anything - he just allowed their freedom.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Omg, did u just roll over my post? Or even the start of the thread. Have u done research sis? He denied women from the Hijab, changed the Adhaan from Arabic and some others that have been mentioned, how are u going by that logic....
A Muslims freedom is his/her deen. When u deny the hijab, thats not freedom. When you replace Allah's laws for those who want to keep firm with the deen, thats not freedom.

 

[Skillganon]

That's what I'm saying, he didn't deny anyone of anything - he just allowed their freedom.

Don't worry sis, one day inshallah islamic rules and law will be back in turkey, and the ataturk's horrible legacy will be buried deep under.

Just pray to Allah(s.w.t) to make his will happen.

 

[Hijrah]

Allah also set rules to say that you do not force anyone into belief. Forced belief will be false and pretence, now does the idea of THAT not sicken YOU?

How are these people being forced into belief when they are already in belief when you are already in belief anything you do that is HARAAM is punishable, and yes that includes not wearing Hijaab, not to the extent the Taalibaan went to, you must realize that this is an established thing in Islaam, not soem strange fanatical thing I'm introducing.

 

[Dahir]

Sharia law isn't a force of oppression, its a sign of absolute liberty, so long as you are a righteous person.

Sharia bans drugs, alcohol, public ludeness, murder, rape, etc.

Are any Sharia bannings offensive to you?

And what liberty are you speaking of?

Nations that apply Sharia law always prosper thereof, just look at Mogadishu pre and post Sharia law.

And one thing sickened me a few years back, and is the reason behind this thread:

Elton John, a homosexual musician, was holding a tour throughout Turkey; so what, right; but his promotional poster was of him standing next to the Turkish flag. Now I don't care what Turkey does with its flag, but Turkey's flag consists of the CRESCENT MOON!! That is offensive and just plain DISGUSTING!!

 

[Grace Seeker]

Elton John, a homosexual musician, was holding a tour throughout Turkey; so what, right; but his promotional poster was of him standing next to the Turkish flag. Now I don't care what Turkey does with its flag, but Turkey's flag consists of the CRESCENT MOON!! That is offensive and just plain DISGUSTING!!

OK. I can understand why that might be offensive to you. But the use of the crescent moon in the land now known as Turkey pre-dates Islam. It was only after the Ottomon's adatped it as their symbol and ruled over much of Islamic territory that it became the main symbol of Islam. So, when you see that picture, don't think of it in terms of its connection with Islam, because that is not why Turkey has it on their flag.

 

[north_malaysian]

CRESCENT MOON!!

I dont think it's offensive as crescent moon has nothing to do with Islam.... but if Elton John posing by a Saudi flag... that'll be offensive..

 

[abdil han]

salam aleykum all
dear brothers n sisters,i watch these posts in sadness,,
coz some of you think that we turks,is a nation who is not surely islam,some of you said even ottoman turks were not sure...i can not understand this..turkey may be a secular country now,but i want you to know there are millions of muslims here who lives in islamic way...

and ottomans, my ancestors,fought for islam,even my grand father fought for 14 years ,for what!! to protect islam lands ,,to stop our enemies,frenchs,british,italian,russian,greek enemies,,more than 1 million turkish(ottoman) soldiers died in only 1st world war in arabia,yemen,irak,palestine,libya,algeria,and in turkey in the end...this is just in 1st world war,before it,we carried islam flag for 400 years,and stopped crusaders before arabic lands,,,but arab sherif huseyin(grand grand father of king huseyin in jordan) betrayed us and fought against us with british troops...

now we lost our glory,our calipha(even some of you dont like ottoman caliph,he was the only leader of islamic world),,but we dont deserve what you said...

look at the islamic liands now,after ottomans which of you is in peace? irak?palestine?caucasia? balcania?algeria?sudan?unfortunately we all paining,,i pray to Allah to stop all these,,,

wallahi i like all my muslim brothers,especially you arabs,,,ottomans called arabs ''the holy nation'',but they didnt see support from all arabs during the 1st war...

and about the turkish flag;that crescend symbolize islam,and the red color symbolize the blood which bled to protect islam for many years...
i dont like the ruling system of my country now but please dont forget the past and try to understand us,,i dont want respect from you,but dont say bad things to them,,

we need to be united again to stop all of our pains,like in the past...

may Allah protect you all inshaAllah,amin..
wassalam
abdil from turkiye

 

[north_malaysian]

and about the turkish flag;that crescend symbolize islam,and the red color symbolize the blood which bled to protect islam for many years...

uzgunum!!! (sorry!!!) ... if in case I've offended you... I'm sorry... I dont know that the red color symbolise the blood of Ottoman army defending Islam..... uzgunum!!!

 

[Grace Seeker]

and about the turkish flag;that crescend symbolize islam,and the red color symbolize the blood which bled to protect islam for many years...

Abdil, I meant no disrespect to you nor certainly to Turkey, native land to my daughter. The information I shared regarding the flag came from Turkish websites. Here are some of the things they said, which I put together. Sorry, if I put them together wrong.

The star and crescent are Muslim symbols, but also have a long pre-Islamic past in Asia Minor.

Many traditions explain the star and crescent symbol. It is known that Diana (Artemis) was the patron goddess of Byzantium and that her symbol was a moon. In 330, the Emperor Constantine rededicated the city - which he called Constantinople (today's Istanbul) - to the Virgin Mary, whose star symbol was superimposed over the crescent. In 1453 Constantinople (Istanbul) was captured by the Ottoman Turks and renamed Istanbul, but its new rulers may have adopted the existing emblem for their own use.

Some Legends:
A reflection of the moon occulting a star, appearing in pools of blood after the battle of Kosovo in 1448, the battle during which the Ottomans defeated the Christian forces and established the Ottoman Empire in Eastern Europe until the end of the 19th century, led to the adoption of the Turkish flag by Sultan Murad II according to one legend.

Others refer to a dream of the first Ottoman Sultan in which a crescent and star appeared from his chest and expanded, presaging the dynasty's seizure of Constantinople (Istanbul). There are other legends explaining the flag.

Also from Wikipedia regarding Flag of Turkey there is this:

The crescent and star, while generally regarded as Islamic symbols today, have for long been used in Asia Minor and by the old Turks, quite before the advent of Islam. According to one theory, the figure of crescent has its roots in tamghas, markings used as livestock brand or stamp, used by nomadic Turkic clans of Central Asia.

The origin of the crescent and star as a symbol dates back to the times of ancient Babylon and ancient Egypt. It has been claimed that the Turkic tribes, during their migrations from the Central Asia to modern Turkey circa 800 AD, had adopted this symbol from local tribes and states in the area that is present day Middle East that had in turn adopted these from the ancient civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Untill I read these articles I always assumed that Turkey derived it's flag from the common use of the crescent moon as an Islamic symbol. After reading these it seemed to me that the derivation might have gone the other way. That the common use of them as Islamic symbols came about becuase they were on the flags used by the caliphate.

 

[abdil han]

Abdil, I meant no disrespect to you nor certainly to Turkey, native land to my daughter. The information I shared regarding the flag came from Turkish websites. Here are some of the things they said, which I put together. Sorry, if I put them together wrong.



Untill I read these articles I always assumed that Turkey derived it's flag from the common use of the crescent moon as an Islamic symbol. After reading these it seemed to me that the derivation might have gone the other way. That the common use of them as Islamic symbols came about becuase they were on the flags used by the caliphate.

dear grace seeker,
i didnt mean you, in my message,,

but you have right to think in that way after you saw all these from turkish websites..unfortunately,there are many bad people n books ,especially about ottomans,,,its better to read old books about history,(i mean,older than this republic of turkey)..

about the flag; ottomans began to use this flag in 15th century,especially after they began to be the leader of islamic world,,and this happened especially after the conquest of istanbul...

the crescend of star maybe some old symbols,but ottomans didnt use them for these pagan or ancient meanings,,in their emblem;there are 2 flags,once is this crescend n star on red base,and the other is 3 crescend on green base,,and right under the red flag,there is the Kur'an,,,maybe you saw it already,,,

anyway,take care ,,peace be upon you brother


north malaysian brother,thanks for ur good intention,,,im happy if you got my point,,stay in health inshaAllah,,

may Allah bless you inshaAllah,,

wassalam,,

 

[Dawud_uk]

Abdil, I meant no disrespect to you nor certainly to Turkey, native land to my daughter. The information I shared regarding the flag came from Turkish websites. Here are some of the things they said, which I put together. Sorry, if I put them together wrong.







Also from Wikipedia regarding Flag of Turkey there is this:





Untill I read these articles I always assumed that Turkey derived it's flag from the common use of the crescent moon as an Islamic symbol. After reading these it seemed to me that the derivation might have gone the other way. That the common use of them as Islamic symbols came about becuase they were on the flags used by the caliphate.

assalaamu alaykum,

the turkish kalifate was misguided but that still doesnt stop us owing loyalty to it if it still existed but it does not anymore.

therefore it is useful to avoid future mistakes of the same variety when the kalifate is re-established to examine these mistakes and document them so that we dont repeat the mistakes of history.

as for the moon and star... i avoid it personally for the reasons posted. i have a black shahadah flag with white writing instead and this or the white flag with black writing is the flag of the ummah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Grace Seeker]

the crescend of star maybe some old symbols,but ottomans didnt use them for these pagan or ancient meanings,,in their emblem;there are 2 flags,once is this crescend n star on red base,and the other is 3 crescend on green base,,and right under the red flag,there is the Kur'an,,,maybe you saw it already,,,

Thank-you for your kind words, Abdil. I'm glad I did not offend you, and glad to learn more about Turkey and the history of its symbols.

I don't know why anyone would think that the star and crescent would be a pagan symbol. I know some people who say that about the moon and stars used as a trade mark by Proctor and Gamble. To me, those ideas are ridiculous. Symbols are just shapes, lines on a piece of paper without any meaning until we in our own minds give meaning to them. The nation of Turkey rightly looks to these symbols with pride in the Ottoman heritage and is glad to share these symbols with the whole Islamic world. There is nothing pagan in that. It matters not if at some time in the past a pagan drew a picture of a crescent moon, even if they worshipped that image, Muslim Turks do not, they worship Allah and wave their flag as a national symbol nothing more, so it is not pagan.

Of course there are some (misguided and easily led) people who look to at everything and if there is any connection with paganism in it ever in history, they declare it is still there today, though those who use the symbols are completely unaware of it and those thought never enter their minds. To label such beliefs pagan because of some such connection is in my opinion libelous. In their minds it means that because once some pagans used trees in such away, even though Christians do not, that Christmas trees must be a pagan symbol. And some would do the same with the star and crescent, but not me. My goodness, look at the things that were used by pagans before they were converted to God's use. The mount on which the Dome of the Rock Mosque in Jerusalem is built was once a place used for canaanite (i.e. pagan) worship. But no one would claim it to be a pagan site today. If the star and crescent were to be considered pagan symbols because pagan had once used them for their purposes in the past, then even the Kaaba would have to be considered as such, for the Black Stone in one corner predates Islam and was itself once an object of pagan veneration. But, as Umar bin Al-Khattab is reported to have said, it is just a stone. It is not an object of worship, the worship done there is directed to Allah. The whole idea that something directed to Allah should be considered pagan whether it be the black stone, the location of the Dome of the Rock, or the symbols on Turkey's flag is contemptable.

 

[lapseki]

As a Turkish girl , living in İstanbul ..i am glad that we are not living islam like iran or other islamic countries which are having shari law... and be sure that most of the Turks thinking same .. People in Turkey really really loves Ataturk .. And sees him as the father of Turks.

at this topic some of you say that Turkey is not respected by other islamic countries... in Turkey lost of people even dont care what other islamic countries thinking about.. Unfortunately the general view of people here, about the islamic countries especially which are ruled by shari law, is seem to be backward. And who is saying that islamic rules and law would be back in Turkey and Ataturk's "horrible" legacy would be buried deep under, you will be disappointed because people living in Turkey wont let this happen.
Turks belong neither europe nor middle east.

About crescent moon flag; Before islam at central asia Turk's religion was samanizm. and according to samanizm the most powerfull god was "goktanrı" , it s symbols were moon, star and sun.. the root of crescent moon before Turks were islam. And the red color is symbolizing blood of Turkish soldier died at wars.

 

[north_malaysian]

Unfortunately the general view of people here, about the islamic countries especially which are ruled by shari law, is seem to be backward. And who is saying that islamic rules and law would be back in Turkey and Ataturk's "horrible" legacy would be buried deep under, you will be disappointed because people living in Turkey wont let this happen.
Turks belong neither europe nor middle east..

I think you should be prepared... for other sisters and brothers' comments on your remarks.....