Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Enemy of Islam?

[Tiger_Stripes]

Is Ataturk and apostate of Islam?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Is Ataturk and apostate of Islam?

This was shared with me in another thread when I asked a question about a specific person:

...in islam its one of our principles to not judge on a specified person with either hell nor paradise.

because ALLAH alone is the one who will deside who goes to heaven and who goes to hell ,and ALLAH alone knows who deserves what ..

and i have a funny real story i heard from one of our schoolars he said :

there was some old women dying in a hospital here in my country so two muslim brothers gone to her and made her say the shahada and then she died
so her son came after that and he was so sad on his mother so the two muslims said to him don't be worry ,she said the shahada before she died

so her son screamed "you made her disbelieve on christianity"

and so she was a christian but ALLAH made her fate that she bear witness that there is no deity worthy to be worshipped but Allah, and that she bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger

so we can't say if this woman is in hell or heaven ,we just can't its out of our jurisdiction to judge in this matters ...

I would assume the same respect should be given to Ataturk in this regard as to the real-life murdering adulterer that I asked about, or for the fictitious woman in the story.

 

[abdil han]

As a Turkish girl , living in İstanbul ..i am glad that we are not living islam like iran or other islamic countries which are having shari law... and be sure that most of the Turks thinking same .. People in Turkey really really loves Ataturk .. And sees him as the father of Turks.

as a Turkish guy,lives in istanbul,i m not that glad about the ''secular'' country,,be coz ours is not secularism,we understand it wrong...secularism must cover our religious rights too...but now,girls with hijab can nt study with it...

about atatürk,,u know he is a kind of taboo here,,but i can say briefly that i dont regard him as the father of turks...

vassalam

 

[lapseki]

you know hijab is not seem only a religion thing in Turkey.. unfortunately it has became a symbol of a political view with erbakan. of course it is not good girls with hijab cant study for freedom and democracy.. but islamic part(who wants change secular regime) must feel guilty for bringing the things this condition.it is clear that Turkey is a secular country. and it wont be change.. so accept it or left

 

[abdil han]

so accept it or left

this is not kind...!

do i have to leave my own country if i dont like a rediculus rule?!

u are very aggressive...

by the way,
u must know this essay; ''kurunun yanında yaşıda yakmak'',,

its not acceptable to punish all the religious people just for a politic deed...

and do not forget that the people,who fought n died for this country,were all deep islam believers...even atatürk related about this after Gallipoli wars...

anyway,,whatever u believe in,dont be that disrespectful to muslims especially in a muslim country...

 

[lapseki]

this is not kind...!

do i have to leave my own country if i dont like a rediculus rule?!

your country is a secular country.. you have to accept this.. if you want to live with shari law,or a country ruled by islamic way , yes you should leave..

and do not forget that the people,who fought n died for this country,were all deep islam believers...even atatürk related about this after Gallipoli wars...

how could this be forgotten.. "kemalist" people muslim too.. i really fed up to be seen as antimuslim by the "conservative" part of the people living in Turkey. i want to make you remember something, in 1999, front of the İstanbul University a group of student protested YOK and forbidden of hijab at universities. And on their placard it was writing "wasnt 7.4 enough".. how dare!! unfortunately today people with this mind seen as deep islam believers ..
you are talking about respect.. but "radical" islamic people in Turkey have less respect than others... on street have you ever seen a person insulting a woman because of wearing hijab... i have never see that kind thing. but i witnessed men at beyoglu front of galatasaray lisesi were throwing little stones to girls' legs who were wearing skirt. this is just an example which i witnessed properly. i always read on news or internet such things like that

in Turkey everybody can live their life, what the way they want, without insulting the others. and this is what should be! to provide this, a secular regime is needed. i m still thinking it is an antidemocratic way to forbidden hijab at universities. but i m again saying that, radicals must feel much more guilty for this to make hijab a political view. i m 21 years old, and for ten years i m aware of what is going on. 30 years ago were there such a problem like hijab. at 1996 it was forbidden. even turban style wasnt used. traditional yemeni or başortüsü were used. then what changed and why changed. isnt turban arabic way! are we arab..

 

[abdil han]

your country is a secular country.. you have to accept this.. if you want to live with shari law,or a country ruled by islamic way , yes you should leave..

how could this be forgotten.. "kemalist" people muslim too.. i really fed up to be seen as antimuslim by the "conservative" part of the people living in Turkey. i want to make you remember something, in 1999, front of the İstanbul University a group of student protested YOK and forbidden of hijab at universities. And on their placard it was writing "wasnt 7.4 enough".. how dare!! unfortunately today people with this mind seen as deep islam believers ..
you are talking about respect.. but "radical" islamic people in Turkey have less respect than others... on street have you ever seen a person insulting a woman because of wearing hijab... i have never see that kind thing. but i witnessed men at beyoglu front of galatasaray lisesi were throwing little stones to girls' legs who were wearing skirt. this is just an example which i witnessed properly. i always read on news or internet such things like that

in Turkey everybody can live their life, what the way they want, without insulting the others. and this is what should be! to provide this, a secular regime is needed. i m still thinking it is an antidemocratic way to forbidden hijab at universities. but i m again saying that, radicals must feel much more guilty for this to make hijab a political view. i m 21 years old, and for ten years i m aware of what is going on. 30 years ago were there such a problem like hijab. at 1996 it was forbidden. even turban style wasnt used. traditional yemeni or başortüsü were used. then what changed and why changed. isnt turban arabic way! are we arab..

u are kemalist as u said,but atatürk had more respect than you to islam,whatever happenes,u can not generalize all the muslims ,by the way,i also heard many bad people, who is also ''kemalist'' ,when saying'' we need to send these ''kara çarşaflıları'' to arabia,,is this respectful?

yemeni or hijab or başörtüsü, all of them are just to cover ur head,nothing else,,you think in a nationalist way,which is not good at all...

by the way u are too young to know about 1960s,but u can read about it..army closed all 'imam hatip n other islamic schools',but after a couple years ,a new generation grew up,without any islamic information,and they were using drugs,drinking alcohol,fighting,stealing,,,they were doing every bad things,,and army understood that they made a mistake n they reopened the imam hatip schools again...islam is the way of correcting people,if a muslim throw stones to girls,this is not be coz of islam,this is be coz of his incomplete islamic belief n knowledge,,

im not a radical,i just want freedom for my religion,,thats all,and i never accept to go somewhere else,,.this is my country,my granddad fought in ww1 n in war of independance,he fought with atatürk n he told my dad that ataturk was praying on fridays,but now, most of our ''kemalists'' are just insulting islam! instead of understanding islam,,

you gotta see that why we lost our glorious days,be coz we became far away from islam,,

(dont say me to leave again sister ,u are nt the owner of this country nor i..but my Sultan Muhammed Fatih conquered this city n he was a good muslim not secular!)

 

[lapseki]

so you have to accept this secular system.. it wont be changed)

 

[Grace Seeker]

im not a radical,i just want freedom for my religion,,thats all,and i never accept to go somewhere else,,.this is my country,my granddad fought in ww1 n in war of independance,he fought with atatürk n he told my dad that ataturk was praying on fridays,but now, most of our ''kemalists'' are just insulting islam! instead of understanding islam,,

(dont say me to leave again sister ,u are nt the owner of this country nor i..but my Sultan Muhammed Fatih conquered this city n he was a good muslim not secular!)

Well, if you ever do desire to go someplace else, I hope you would feel welcomed in the USA. Yes, we are a secular country. But you can wear whatever you want, whenever you want. (Unless you are Janet Jackson taking your clothes off during a national TV broadcast from the SuperBowl.) You can also pray pretty much whenever and wherever you want. (Unless it involves forcing that prayer on others in a government sponsored venue.) No doubt you'll hear insults against Islam (and all other religions for that matter) in the media and in person and from many other parts of society, but it won't be the government doing it. It is far from a perfect world, but people are pretty much free to make their own choices on matters of belief, even if they are not popular with everyone around them. That's what being secular means here.

(Though we still are trying to figure out whether Muslim cab driver's have the right to say they won't transport peoples bags that have alcohol in them. Or if the non-Muslim rider has the right to say if you are willing to take me, then you have to take my bags too.)

 

[lapseki]

ha haaa what a bright idea grace seeker's.. listen him

 

[Grace Seeker]

Ah, but I also know what Abdil speaks of.

My daughter and my "niece" are Muslims living in Turkey. Both love Ataturk. My niece is pretty much a secular muslim, even intends to marry a Christian, but my daughter is practicing. She doesn't often wear the Hajib, but would like the freedom to where it to class if she so chose, but that choice has been taken away from her. She could wear it here in the USA, where she was the only Muslim in the entire school. But in Turkey, where 98% of people are Muslim, she cannot. But, yet, I am allowed to wear my cross -- which is not a religious obligation, just a personal preference -- when visiting her. Some of that just doesn't make sense.

Beyond that, I don't see many differences, but I'm don't live in Turkey so, maybe I don't notice them as clearly as one who lives there would.

 

[abdil han]

ha haaa what a bright idea grace seeker's.. listen him

i dont need any idea about this matter...

i ll go nowhere!! at least not to usa,,maybe malaysia,or dubai,,,where i can find more respectful people to my blessed religion...

u ll understand what i mean sister,,here in this world maybe,,maybe in ur far future in ahiret...





...by the way,,
thanks grace seeker,,
im not planning to move somewhere else from my own country...i belong here..we are the owner,,renters will move one day...

peace on you n ur family..

 

[lapseki]

we ll see who are the renters or who are the owners!!!! but be sure yobaz tayfası is not owners even not renters ..

 

[abdil han]

we ll see who are the renters or who are the owners!!!! but be sure yobaz tayfası is not owners even not renters ..

we are what we feel,what we believe in...

i feel myself as the owner,,if u feel somethng else,this is ur problem,,,

''yarası olan gocunur'' right?! u also know this...
i dont understand why u took this on?

u are pretty far from ur history,,if u knew a little,you would have understood who is who...n who is the enemy of this country...n what is the reason of its greatness...

try to see all sides sister,,
u can not see everywhere from one window....

 

[lapseki]

aferin sana 1 şey söylüyosun bari arkasında dur... yarası olan gocunur şeklinde döndürme.. ne demek istediğini anlamayacak kadar salak deilim... ayrıca tek pencereden bakma diyen insana bak..!! komiksin

 

[abdil han]

aferin sana 1 şey söylüyosun bari arkasında dur... yarası olan gocunur şeklinde döndürme.. ne demek istediğini anlamayacak kadar salak deilim... ayrıca tek pencereden bakma diyen insana bak..!! komiksin

ben sözlerimin arkasındayım,

benim kimseyle,kemalistlerle,sağcılarla,solcularla bir problemim yok,herkes istediği gibi,istediği ülkede yaşasın...


önce saldırıp sonra laf işitince agresif olmanada gerek yok,

bu arada,öncede dediğim gibi,nasıl hissediyorsak oyuz,
ben bu ülkeden gidecek biri olarak görmüyorum kendimi,ama sen ikide bir git deyip saldırıyosun,,,ben buranın yerlisiyim,,misafir gelmedik bu vatana...kimsede bize git deme hakkına sahip değildir...

bizi dinci,solcu,komünist,sağcı,ateist ,kürt,laz,çerkez diye sınıflandırıp bölenlere de itibar etmemek gerekir...bir arada huzur içinde,özgürce yaşayalım..

ne içkisini içene birşey densin,ne başını örtene,ne namaz kılana,ne de mini etek giyene...özgürlük herkese eşit bir şekilde verildiğinde anlam kazanır...

diyeceklerim bukadar,artık bu mevzu hakkında tartışmak istemiyorum...
kib

( sorry we wrote in turkish,but it was needed)

 

[lapseki]

bu ülkenin rejimini kabul etmiyenler.. ya bunu kabul edecekler ya da defolup gidecekler.. Türkiyenin ne iran ne de diğer arap ülkeleri gibi olması söz konusu bile değildir. demokrasideki eksiklikler elbette düzeltilir.. senin laik demokratik bir Türkiye Cumhuriyetiyle sorunun yoksa bu yazdıklarımı üstüne alınman abest. ama burda bana muhalefet olduğuna göre bi hayli takıksın.

 

[north_malaysian]

on street have you ever seen a person insulting a woman because of wearing hijab...

I've seen Turkish MPs were insulting Merve Kavakci for wearing hijab.

isnt turban arabic way! are we arab..

How about jeans, mini skirts, blouses ... are those Turkish?

If non Arabs want to dress as Arab ... it shouldn't be a problem... in a democratic country people can dress in any national/religious/cultural dress their wanted....

 

[north_malaysian]

he fought with atatürk n he told my dad that ataturk was praying on fridays

Another example pointing out that Ataturk is not a non-believer.

 

[north_malaysian]

Well, if you ever do desire to go someplace else, I hope you would feel welcomed in the USA. Yes, we are a secular country. But you can wear whatever you want, whenever you want. (Unless you are Janet Jackson taking your clothes off during a national TV broadcast from the SuperBowl.) You can also pray pretty much whenever and wherever you want. (Unless it involves forcing that prayer on others in a government sponsored venue.) No doubt you'll hear insults against Islam (and all other religions for that matter) in the media and in person and from many other parts of society, but it won't be the government doing it. It is far from a perfect world, but people are pretty much free to make their own choices on matters of belief, even if they are not popular with everyone around them. That's what being secular means here.

(Though we still are trying to figure out whether Muslim cab driver's have the right to say they won't transport peoples bags that have alcohol in them. Or if the non-Muslim rider has the right to say if you are willing to take me, then you have to take my bags too.)

For me USA is more Islamic than Turkey. How can they force the Kurds, Circassians, Tatars, Bosniaks, Albanians, Arabs, Assyrians, Pontics, Cretans, Greeks and Armenians to be Turks.

Minorities should be allowed to retain their unique identity....


P/S: LOL to Janet Jackson....