Prove that the Qur'an is NOT the word of God.

[vpb]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

It is rather men that have collected them and put them in the Koran.

do you have evidence for this? or you're just speakin whatever is coming up in your mind?

 

[QURBAN]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful!

Peace To Those Who Follow The Guidance


“And if We had sent this as a Quran in a foreign language other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its Verses explained in detail (in our language)? What! (A Book) not in Arabic and (the Messenger) an Arab?"
Say: "It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Quran) is blindness for them. They are those who are called from a place far away (so they neither listen nor understand).”

Holy Quran 41:44 (Moshin Khan English Transalation)


Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe.

 

[Soldier2000]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

The other problem with Classical Arabic of course is that you can make it mean pretty much what you like.

Why then did God chose Arabic for the Koran? That would contradict its "clearness".

It sound like both of you are experts in the Quranic language- and in the field Linguistics in general- your knowledge in linguistic must be at a scholarly level for you to recognise there are languages available other than the Quranic language which are more efficient, especially when it….


- comes to the precise statement of laws
- accuracy
- Pronunciation
- Etc. etc


In which case if you could be kind enough to read through the articles provided in the below links, and refute them!

http://www.islamawareness.net/Quran/language_of_quran.html

http://www.submission.org/quran/arabic.html

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

HeiGou

Why then did God chose Arabic for the Koran? That would contradict its "clearness".

What does it mean

Why u think world is made for u
world is made for everyone


In the name of Allaah most gracious, most merciful

41:44
And if We had sent this as a Qur'an in a foreign language other than arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its Verses explained in detail (in our language)? What! (A Book) not in arabic and (the Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Qur'an) is blindness for them. They are those who are called from a place far away (so they neither listen nor understand).



2:88
And they say, "Our hearts are wrapped (i.e. do not hear or understand Allah's Word)." Nay, Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so little is that which they believe.​

How true the word of Allaah

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

please people lets call it Quran and not "koran", thats like me calling the bible bimple

PEACE

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

I do not see anything in the Koran that proves it is written by God himself.

Which part of the Koran could not have been written by men?

Most of what is in the Koran can be found in judaism, christianity, various sects from the 7th century, folklore and even Arab paganism.

I do not see why God would bother composing folklore tales. It is rather men that have collected them and put them in the Koran.

if u can't write
pls dont write
u r baseless
every Religion has a base(maybe partly broken or fully broken or not broken at all) for fight
what u r fighing for??

u really don't know what r u fighting for

 

[vpb]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

i_m_tipu, bro. he's just trying to find hair inside the egg

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

hahahahaha.........

 

[HeiGou]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

HeiGou

What does it mean

Why u think world is made for u
world is made for everyone

Umm, not me. That was someone else.

I would like to think the world was made for me. But I do not think it was.

In the name of Allaah most gracious, most merciful

41:44
And if We had sent this as a Qur'an in a foreign language other than arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its Verses explained in detail (in our language)? What! (A Book) not in arabic and (the Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Qur'an) is blindness for them. They are those who are called from a place far away (so they neither listen nor understand).

2:88
And they say, "Our hearts are wrapped (i.e. do not hear or understand Allah's Word)." Nay, Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so little is that which they believe.​

How true the word of Allaah

Hmmm, it is hard to reconcile that first bit with the idea that the Quran was a book for all peoples - that Islam wasn't just a religion for Arabs. But it is not important.

 

[czgibson]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Greetings,

if u can't write
pls dont write

Why are you complaining about the quality of someone's writing when theirs is pretty much flawless and yours is all over the place?

Those who use the Arabic words should use them without spelling mistakes. The starter of the thread has written "Quran" and so has Abd Majid. The hamza is missing and the length of the "a" is not indicated.

I'm not sure if there's a unanimous agreement on rendering Arabic words in Roman script. Sometimes you see 'Qur'an' and sometimes 'Qur'aan'; sometimes 'Islam' and somtimes 'Islaam'. I don't know if one or other of these is preferred and thought of as correct. I'm sure someone on the forum will be able to tell us.

Peace

 

[Nicola]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Greetings Nicole how are you?

fine thanks and yourself

I believe you just answered your own question, the Jews rejected Jesus as being the messiah, that’s why they where uttering these words in mockery.

Ibn Kathir Tafsir:
The Jews ("We killed Al-Masih, `Isa, son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah,'') meaning, we killed the person who claimed to be the Messenger of Allah. The Jews only uttered these words in jest and mockery, just as the polytheists said (O you to whom the Dhikr (the Qur'an) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man!).

I hope that answered your question, now

Sorry it hasn't answered the question at all..
It does not tell us in Surah 4:157 that they killed the person who claimed himself to be the messiah

But

It tells us this below .. they claimed they had killed the Messiah...not killed the one claiming to be the Messiah...

This is an entirely different meaning all together.

Surah:[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD

Why would the Jews claimed to have killed their own Messiah? after all they where waiting for him. This does not make any sense..

Your sentence would make more sense I know, concerning what the truth acutally was, but it doesn't say that in the Quran. It says the opposite.


about your other question If you'd like to join in on Personal encounters...because we are discussing the same subject there...saves typing the same stuff twice..
thanks
peace

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Hello Nicola, I already answered your question but you ignored the Biblical references I gave you. I'll give it you again - Matthew 27:27-31 says:
Then the governor's soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around him. They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him. "Hail, king of the Jews!" they said. They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.

By your reasoning I should ask, why do they call him the King of the Jews while they proceed to beat him, abuse him and take him for crucifixion? They clearly did not believe his claims to be the king of the jews, or else they wouldn't have treated him in this manner. If they don't believe he is the king of the jews why does the Bible say that they called him that?

The answer is the same. They said it sarcastically to mock him, and they boasted amongst themselves that they had abused and killed the "king of jews" and "messiah". Obviously, they didn't believe he was either of the two, but they said it in mockery. The Bible records that while beating him they said, "Hail King of Jews" - but they didn't believe he was the king of the Jews. The Qur'an records that they said, "We killed the Messiah!" - but they didnt believe he was the Messiah.

The issue should be very clear now.

 

[Nicola]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Hello Nicola, I already answered your question but you ignored the Biblical references I gave you. I'll give it you again - Matthew 27:27-31 says:
Then the governor's soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around him. They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him. "Hail, king of the Jews!" they said. They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.

By your reasoning I should ask, why do they call him the King of the Jews while they proceed to beat him, abuse him and take him for crucifixion? They clearly did not believe his claims to be the king of the jews, or else they wouldn't have treated him in this manner. If they don't believe he is the king of the jews why does the Bible say that they called him that?

The answer is the same. They said it sarcastically to mock him, and they boasted amongst themselves that they had abused and killed the "king of jews" and "messiah". Obviously, they didn't believe he was either of the two, but they said it in mockery. The Bible records that while beating him they said, "Hail King of Jews" - but they didn't believe he was the king of the Jews. The Qur'an records that they said, "We killed the Messiah!" - but they didnt believe he was the Messiah.

The issue should be very clear now.

thanks for your response...but like I said earlier many Jews did believe he was the King of the Jews...That is the reason why they waved their palm leaves at him and hailed him .It was only the religious leaders, who believed not..

So maybe it was these Jewish people the Koran was referring to. Because if it is those Jewish who believed in him...then the Koran is correct on that point...they did infact kill their Messiah.

If the Koran had of said...he claimed he was the messiah so we killed him that would have been correct...then that would have been plain for all to see.

I know about the Bible reference you gave me, but there are plenty of Bible reference that support the the Jewish people did believe Jesus has their Messiah
So it would be unfair just to take the parts that you mention. Unless we take the whole of the people for and against Jesus.

Hope you see what I'm meaning.

ps also the people spitting and beating him where romans not jews

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

thanks for your response...but like I said earlier many Jews did believe he was the King of the Jews...That is the reason why they waved their palm leaves at him and hailed him .

Nicola, it says the governor's soldiers mocked him and abused him and led him to be crucified despite their saying, "Hail King of the Jews". They soldiers did not believe he was actually the king of the jews, they were mocking him as the verse itself says:
...They put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him. "Hail, king of the Jews!" they said.

Now if someone suggested that these soldiers boasted "We have killed the King of the Jews! We have killed the Messiah!", after they crucified him [or so they thought], it would be entirely plausible considering their statements before they lead him off. This is all that the Qur'an mentions.

No matter how you try to explain the biblical passage, the same explanation resolves your allegation against the Qur'an. If you say that some Jews believed he was the Messiah and killed him, then you have answered your own question about the Qur'anic verse. If you say that they said it in mockery, then likewise you have answered your own question. No matter how you interpret the Biblical passage the same interpretation resolves any issue you have with the Qur'anic passage.

Regards

 

[sargon]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Sorry to jump in but about the Jews in the Quran I should take back my comments because those are just personal issues I have from reading websites and not only Quran. I've probably read too many websites that are biased against jewish people, or rather Zionists and use a few Quranic quotes to back up their claims.

There aren't an overwhelming amount of quotes when you actually look at all of it.

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

Only 22 verses...

 

[Skillganon]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Well it is not easy. After all Muslims have been studying their scripture for years and years and years. If there were contradictions they would have noticed, and, as they are still Muslims, they must have a good reason why this is the so - just as Christians do for "contradictions" in the Bible. As you say yourself - quote in context. That context would be what exactly?

If one goes looking for contradiction, one will only convince themselv of contradiction. Now let's look at this verse. I am in a Hurry so I will do a quick Job! Hope I don't make a mess!

Take one example, Adam talked to God. So he must have been a Muslim right?

002.037
YUSUFALI: Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
​

Yep, His a musim.

003.067
YUSUFALI: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.​

Yep abraham was a Muslim.

006.014
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah.".​

Well it say's first of THOSE (Pagans), obviousely it is refering to specicfic time and place.
Obviousely talking about the pagan, unless you mean the pagan where bowing to the will of Allah, and they where the first muslim.

006.163
YUSUFALI: No partner hath He: this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who bow to His will..

Same as above.

YUSUFALI: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.".

Same as above. Specific time, and place.

Only a fool would think that there is a contradiction here. There is a good explanation and no doubt if I ask nicely (and I do) someone will tell me what the traditional explanation is.

Yeah! See their is no contradiction.

Now let me say, all the people on earth stop believeing in God, or bowing down to his will.

Now if I am start bowing down to the will of God now, I will be the first muslim at this time and place.

Note it does not say first muslim ever!​

 

[i_m_tipu]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

:salamext:

i think they must tired finding contradiction and having explanation from brother which may make them Shock

but i really love to wellcome their comment which make us do Researching and make us gaining knowledge and stronging our faith insAllaah

something may look bad but bring good later
Allaah knows best​

 

[Mohammed Bilal]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

You cant relate quran and modern day science-- those who have studied the quran should know some things about the complex term "al-qadar"

 

[renak]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

Salam
I challenge anyone to prove that the Quran is not the word of God.
It is the word of God,There are numerous examples, but lets have who thinks that the Quran is not the word of God to prove it.

I don't think that anyone can prove that the Quran is not the word of God. I also do not think that anyone can prove that the Quran is the word of God (and yes, I have read all the posts on this thread).

Basically to believe in the Quran (or any religious document) one must have faith.

 

[Mohsin]

Re: Prove that the Quran Is not the word of God.

I don't think that anyone can prove that the Quran is not the word of God. I also do not think that anyone can prove that the Quran is the word of God (and yes, I have read all the posts on this thread).

Basically to believe in the Quran (or any religious document) one must have faith.

I disagree
I don't believe i've used just faith. Back when i wasn't quite practicing islam, it just hit me that i'm a muslim who believes only islam is the right religion, and i thought to myself how can i be sure, what if i wasn't born a muslim, so i searched for these proofs. There are so many, just look at the Qur'an

There are scientific miracles. ok some are not so clear and seem vague, but there are clear ones, like about embryology, experts like Keith Moore and others have said these are true verses. the other astronomy verses how space is expanding, how earth and sun rotates. it describes the exact shape of the earth as egg shaped, rather than saying flat. Even if Muhammed PBUH was to guess, he would've said round, but because it's from God it said it was egg shaped, and it's been proved to be geo-spherical. There ae other clear ones, but one more i'd mention is it mentions the bees in female tense. we all know the female bees rule the roost! They all report to Queen bee etc. How could he have guessed that, if anything people say Muslims oppress women so surely he would've thought males dominate here aswell.

Theres the clear prophecies in the Qur'an of the romans victories which at the time didn't look possible. Also the prophecy that Muhammed PBUH's uncle wouldn't convert and end up in hell. His uncle was so evil he would do anything to disprove islam, yet all he had to do was a fake conversion, so easy, but yet he didn't. why would Muhammed PBUH take such a risk and make such a foolish prophecy that is so easy to disprove, only God could have known.

Then theres prophecies of Muhammed PBUH in all the other world scriptures, he's mentioned by name in the Hindu scriptures at least on three occasions as the final prophet. how could that be, thers no history of any tampering by muslims of the hindu scriptures, yet there are numerous clear prophecies. I'll just post one below, i'd like to see comments on it

According to Bhavishya Purana in the Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:"The Malecha have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in the country. Before also there appeared a misguided fiend whom I had killed; he has now again appeared being sent by a powerful enemy. To show these enemies the right path and to give them guidance, the well-known Muhammad (pbuh), is busy in bringing the Pishachas to the right path. ………….. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

He's also mentioned in the Bible, OT and NT. www.irf.net/irf/comparativereligion/index.htm You can say they are all vague, but its too much of a coincidence when you look at it with a clear perspective. There are even prophecies in Buddhist and Zorastian scriptures

And back to topic of word repetitions, there are too many of these to say its a fluke. Look at the one about the after-life and this life,opposite meanings of words, both appear 115 times, thats too many as it is to say its luck. There are numerous other examples aswell.

Finally all the reverts in islam, it being the fastest growing religion, if you go to websites with stories of reverts you'll see how few of them have anything to do with faith, it's all about logic and clear reasoning. These reverts give a lot of time to think about converting and see the proofs, they can't all be wrong in my opinion

Anyway thats my 2 cents