Red Mosque leader urges surrender

  • Thread starter Thread starter Muezzin
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 136
  • Views Views 15K
Status
Not open for further replies.
I doubt if any war can be won unless the "winner" can earn the support of the "Defeated".

To win a war and have to then maintain control of a defeated people that hate you is very expensive and non-productive. It eventually leads to the downfall of the conquerer.

The only winners of war are the munitions manufacturers. Who usually are living in comfort many miles from danger.
 
i wonder how it would have been like in the 70s when the ku klux klan was killing pple anyhow it pleased, if a coalition force from africa was sent to capture or kill the 'kkk terrorist' . would the us have backed this coalition force in hunting down and killing these radicals then? just some food for thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
if anyone, including a bunch of baptists in iowa, took the law in their own hands and tried to use force to make people live the way they thought they should, they would be crushed. and it wouldn't take 6 months either.
 
Aaron85 said:
You mean islamists or talibans? Only in oposission against Musharraf they have few islamic parties.
Click to expand...

i was talking about the taliban specifically that islamirama said were never in pakistan to begin with. they originated in pakistan. they are pashtuns (though certainly not all pashtuns are taliban). they were educated in schools sponsored by saudi arabia and guess who else?
they were cannon fodder to fight the commie menace. as soon as the commies left afghanistan, the u.s. washed its hands and walked away.
 
nevesirth said:
lets not forget the fact tht violence only leads to more violence. exterminating 50 something humans doesnt spell the end of the conflict, it only calls for more violence and bloodshed. when will we learn tht war is not always the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Click to expand...

True...the problem of radicalsim in Pakistan has not been solved. On the other hand, there are likely several dozens of hostages that are glad it is over.

War is not always the answer..indeed. Hard to see what could have been done here when the Pakis were confronted with a mini-coup.
 
snakelegs said:
if anyone, including a bunch of baptists in iowa, took the law in their own hands and tried to use force to make people live the way they thought they should, they would be crushed. and it wouldn't take 6 months either.
Click to expand...

see , thts also a problem, u guys think violence and use of force is the only solution to every problem. killing a fly with a sledge hammer. same way david koresh of the branch dividians was crushed senseleslly by the food and drug agency in the early eighties i think his children and wives were also crushed with him!!!!!!!!!!11
 
nevesirth said:
i wonder how it would have been like in the 70s when the ku klux klan was killing pple anyhow it pleased, if a coalition force from africa was sent to capture or kill the 'kkk terrorist' . would the us have backed this coalition force in hunting down and killing these radicals then? just some food for thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Interesting thought.
 
we can go on debating on this but the deed has already been done, pple lost their lives.
 
nevesirth said:
see , thts also a problem, u guys think violence and use of force is the only solution to every problem. killing a fly with a sledge hammer. same way david koresh of the branch dividians was crushed senseleslly by the food and drug agency in the early eighties i think his children and wives were also crushed with him!!!!!!!!!!11
Click to expand...

i most certainly do not think violence is a solution, which is why i don't think that violent groups can be allowed to take the law in their own hands.
i too am sorry people had to die and i am afraid that it is far from over.
as for koresh, was he kidnapping people, trying to close stores by force etc?
 
snakelegs said:
i most certainly do not think violence is a solution, which is why i don't think that violent groups can be allowed to take the law in their own hands.
i too am sorry people had to die and i am afraid that it is far from over.
as for koresh, was he kidnapping people, trying to close stores by force etc?
Click to expand...

even if he was closing stores and all, was tht enough reason 4 his family to be exterminated? human life must be very cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Aaron85 said:
You mean islamists or talibans? Only in oposission against Musharraf they have few islamic parties.
Click to expand...

i'm sorry, i just realized that i didn't really answer your question. i don't like the word "islamists". pakistan is a traditional, religious and conservative country. but that does not by any means mean that the majority of people want to live under shariah - let alone have some vigilantes trying to impose it by force.
the opposition to president musharraf comes from many sides, religious and secular as well.
 
nevesirth said:
even if he was closing stores and all, was tht enough reason 4 his family to be exterminated? human life must be very cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

i am sorry that anyone was killed. this man wanted to be a shaheed and he got his wish.
 
wht is the aim of killing the so called 'extremists'? do u think they can all be completely wiped out? this sensless 'war on terror' will never end. i believe something very terrible will happen soon and pple will come to their senses and see tht war is not the solution. the world is going to be very unsafe in years to come. all this war is doing is breeding more hate. u kill pples loved ones in iraq, afganistan, pakistan, palestine etc. wht do u expect? some pple in the family will be willing to go to extremes to avenge the death of their loved ones. the killing of one person can create 10 more pple willing to die for the cause of the slain person. so killing 50 will breed 500, kill the 500 and youll get 5000, crush 5000 and toull make 50000, and so on. the main reason for existence in coming generations will be to fight battles!!!!!!!!!!!
 
snakelegs said:
i'm sorry, i just realized that i didn't really answer your question. i don't like the word "islamists". pakistan is a traditional, religious and conservative country. but that does not by any means mean that the majority of people want to live under shariah - let alone have some vigilantes trying to impose it by force.
the opposition to president musharraf comes from many sides, religious and secular as well.
Click to expand...

I am not expert about Pakistan, but i wouldnt be so sure that majority doesnt want to live under sharia. First, we must see what kind of country it is. Almost half of people are illiterate. They live in great poor. Often islamic schools are the only place where the young can educate themselves. And i repeat again , just in parliament there are several islamic parties. But as i said before, i am not expert about this country.
 
There is some difference between Koresh and others. I was living in Waco a couple of years before the "Battle". I did meet Koresh and a few of his followers. Actually I met Koresh a few times at gun shows, the guy was quite well known at Gun Shows he was always a big time buyer. He seldom had anything to sell, the only thing I ever saw him sell were plans on how to make silencers for hand guns using home materials.

He had very strong control over the members of his "Family". some of the ones that had managed to leave the compound came out with horror stories about how all the men were forced to take a vow of celibacy, But David did not and was married to all of the women. About 50 if I remember. The end came when it was discovered there were many children in the compound and allegations of Child Abuse where made. The social workers that were sent to investigate the allegations were forced off the property and that was when law enfocement became involved. There was a long stand off and Janet Reno gave the order to use force. The rest is history. We will never know the full story as those who know died. Perhaps it was David's own stockpile of munitions that blew up, Perhaps it was from the assault. But, for some reason when the fire started nobody left the compound. From what I read all of the bodies recovered had been shot in the head.
 
nevesirth said:
wht is the aim of killing the so called 'extremists'? do u think they can all be completely wiped out? this sensless 'war on terror' will never end. i believe something very terrible will happen soon and pple will come to their senses and see tht war is not the solution. the world is going to be very unsafe in years to come. all this war is doing is breeding more hate. u kill pples loved ones in iraq, afganistan, pakistan, palestine etc. wht do u expect? some pple in the family will be willing to go to extremes to avenge the death of their loved ones. the killing of one person can create 10 more pple willing to die for the cause of the slain person. so killing 50 will breed 500, kill the 500 and youll get 5000, crush 5000 and toull make 50000, and so on. the main reason for existence in coming generations will be to fight battles!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

the point is not to kill extremists - the point is not to allow any group to take the law in to their own hands.
as for the "war on terror" - yes, you're right 9/11 is used for an excuse for the creation of a permanent state of war and just about anything else you can think of. i aslo agree - this war is producing more enemies every day. bush is the best friend his "enemies" have for recruitment. but the people who matter are getting richer day by day.
i hope you are wrong in your predictions, but i am very much afraid that you are not.
 
snakelegs said:
the point is not to kill extremists - the point is not to allow any group to take the law in to their own hands.
as for the "war on terror" - yes, you're right 9/11 is used for an excuse for the creation of a permanent state of war and just about anything else you can think of. i aslo agree - this war is producing more enemies every day. bush is the best friend his "enemies" have for recruitment. but the people who matter are getting richer day by day.
i hope you are wrong in your predictions, but i am very much afraid that you are not.
Click to expand...

these recent events will definitely lead to more attacks even overseas. all wht has been achieved so far is fueling the ongoing crisis in the world not redusing or minimising it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar Threads

Back
Top